SD9, the Glock killer

[BlackTalonJHP]

Umm - The courts (sic) didn't decide anything. The lawsuit was settled out of court, 16 years ago. Besides that, my thread has nothing to do with the SW9 or Sigma, only the SD9 and SD9VE.

 

[cbr6864]

I love how people cry that S&W copied Glock.....break any semi-auto down and take a look they are all basically the same internally. The SD offers a lot over Glock, real steel sights front being night, extended slide stop mag release, front serrations, grip angle that doesnt feel like your holding a 2X4 and biggest of all price.

 

[MOONDAWG]

People buy what they like...period.

As to durability, anything man made, regardless of cost can and will break.

If it were not so, there would be not Rolls-Royce or Rolex repair facilities.

 

[GKC]

I love how people cry that S&W copied Glock.....break any semi-auto down and take a look they are all basically the same internally. The SD offers a lot over Glock, real steel sights front being night, extended slide stop mag release, front serrations, grip angle that doesnt feel like your holding a 2X4 and biggest of all price.

I've owned many guns, and of them all, Glocks fit my hands the worst. The only Glock that came close is the 36, which of course has a slimmer grip. The SD9VE feels much better in my hand than does the Glock 19, and holds one more round...and, as mentioned, costs about $200 less.

What Glock does offer is a wide variety of aftermarket accessories, and you can buy parts virtually everywhere. There are a couple of parts on the SD9VE that show the "value" approach...like the stamped slide stop/release, but it's serviceable and I've not read of many problems with it.

 

[MOONDAWG]

...There are a couple of parts on the SD9VE that show the "value" approach...like the stamped slide stop/release, but it's serviceable and I've not read of many problems with it.

Nowadays this process is getting negative press.

In the mid/late 1970's when the SIG P series first made it to America's shores the gun rags were ranting about how "modern & innovative" SIG was for use of machine "stamped" parts.

And even earlier the H&K 9 was lauded for it's "stamped slide".

 

[GKC]

Nowadays this process is getting negative press.

In the mid/late 1970's when the SIG P series first made it to America's shores the gun rags were ranting about how "modern & innovative" SIG was for use of machine "stamped" parts.

It's the single part of the gun that feels flimsy to me. I've only read of one person having a problem with it...and of course S&W will replace it if needed. I guess there have to be some compromises to bring a gun to market at this price...which is overall a very good value.

 

[scubatomw2112]

I know I'm Johnny come late to this convo, but wanted to comment on the hate I see of the sigmas. I own a SW9VE and a Glock 17, really prefer to shoot and carry the sigma. Personal preference and all, plus the fact I can shoot better with the sigma than with the glock. Yes I did the trigger job (and no I don't give a **** if it voided my warranty) and it is now better than my 17. If you don't like the sigma or can't shoot well with it, well the former is personal preference and that's your choice, the latter, learn to shoot better.

 

[Practical]

Why are the two 'not even in the same league'?
Is it because the SD9 VE is $200 less?

I think that a lot of people dismiss the SD9VE because they
look at the price and say '300 dollars, it can't be any good'.
S&W would probably sell more if they raised the price a little. (Don't tell them I said that, by the way)

The SD9 and SD40 are simply S&W admitting that the Glock Compact 19/23/32 are the best of breed and they won't even attempt to compete in the M&P Line. The only close competition is the M&:45c compact but its in 45ACP and they had to say, take that Glock its a 45ACP!

However, I think the SD9 / SD40 exist ONLY to confuse the market.

If S&W were serious it would create a gun in this size, but they won't.

S&W makes compact guns sized as J-Frame the M&P Compact and they make full sized holster guns, with slightly too short barrels and too large grips. S&W likes their guns with large bottoms and small tops.

Great for grabbing and clearing holsters.

 

[leejack]

I don't knock anyone's gun preference, but I will tell you that I love my SD.

 

[cleans up]

Ah the great debate. what's next 40 vs 9? sigmas are good, but no not glock killers. by the time you sort out the trigger your near glock pricing. I'd love to shoot a $25 trigger job that's a good as a glock but I'm skeptical. Yes I've massaged the trigger on my GF sigma, and it's much better, but no where near as good as the glock and it started at something gawd-awful like 10+ lbs. I've got DA revolvers that were lighter and smoother. anyway there's my .02 great weapons and clearly borrowed heavily from the glock. I also like the more rounded grip, but I'm not ditching my glock.

p.s loved the above comments about SW with big bottoms and small tops, a bit pear shaped eh? or is that the glock "fanboy" talking

 

[leejack]

sigmas are good, but no not glock killers.

This thread doesn't mention the sigma.

 

[BlackTalonJHP]

The SD9 and SD40 are simply S&W admitting that the Glock Compact 19/23/32 are the best of breed and they won't even attempt to compete in the M&P Line. The only close competition is the M&:45c compact but its in 45ACP and they had to say, take that Glock its a 45ACP!

However, I think the SD9 / SD40 exist ONLY to confuse the market.

If S&W were serious it would create a gun in this size, but they won't.

S&W makes compact guns sized as J-Frame the M&P Compact and they make full sized holster guns, with slightly too short barrels and too large grips. S&W likes their guns with large bottoms and small tops.

Great for grabbing and clearing holsters.

Just a guess, but S&W probably thinks that taking an M&P full size and shortening the barrel by .25" and reducing the grip/magzine size to 15 rounds wouldn't set it apart enough from the full size M&P. Also, why would S&W compete against its own SD9?

I think S&W got it right by having three sizes of M&P just like Ruger did with their LC9, SR9c, and SR9.

I would say that the reason Glock didn't introduce the model 42 in 9mm is because they wouldn't even attempt to compete with the M&P Shield because S&W has perfected that size of firearm, but I don't want to plagiarize you.

 

[micocyco]

I don't knock anyone's gun preference, but I will tell you that I love my SD.

INDEED

 

[rodemax]

Here's a very mature discussion on Glock Forums comparing the 2:
S&W SD9VE - Excellent Glock Clone? You Decide

Most of the (technically correct) negatives were:
-Heavier trigger pull
-Costs less, means less quality
-Don't want to buy a knock-off

I am in the minority that thinks a heavier trigger is good on a CCW without a manual safety. The trigger pull is your margin of safety against snags and mishaps. I can fire accurate aimed shots with the 8# grit-monster that S&W calls a trigger on the SD. Good enough for it's intended purpose, and I did not buy the SD to be a range queen. Just a little extra insurance when Murphy's law puts a jacket in your trigger guard.

I have never been a "You get what you pay for" fan. I have several inexpensive guns that perform as well or better as more expensive counterparts. If the saying is true, my Kimber is more than twice as good as either pistol. I do not think this is the case. My Hi-point carbine is regularly more reliable than 9mm ARs.

The last point is very valid. Glock developed, designed, and have made very slight changes in their basic design for many years. To an extent, all Polymer Striker-fired pistols are just variations on the Glock design. S&W just did it a bit more blatantly than other.

It's not a Glock-killer, but it is a good Glock alternative. It fits my hand better, I like the additional safety the heavy trigger brings, and it goes bang every time, which is exactly what buyers of this pistol type are looking for. But if you want a Glock, get a Glock.

 

[leejack]

If the Sigma and the M&Ps had never existed and Smith introduced the SDs as their first poly pistol, they would be on the shelf for the @ same money that the Glocks are today.

The SD will always be a hard to beat value. The closest thing was Ruger's P95, but it too has gone the way of the Sigma in favor of Ruger's SR series.

The SD is like getting a rescue dog, you won't win best in show but it will love you forever (and probably be less maintenance).

 

[PRISONGUARD1]

NO CONTEST

A Glock is a Glock. No doubt you think both of these are close to equal, but lets take a closer look. You can make these shoot as well as a Glock (with aftermarket parts), but you still have a budget 'Smith'. Glock sued S&W for 'patent infringement' and won. Iv'e heard Firearms dealers tell customers that S&W has to give Glock $9.00 for every SD sold (urban legend?).
Every Glock I own has shot every kind of ammo I use including re-loads. My SD40 was very finicky at first, after 600 plus rounds it is warming up to various brand factory re-loads more consistently.
In 'Kalifonistan' SD's come with an 8lb trigger, stock Glocks a 5 1/2lb. My first outing I had about an 8" shot group at 15 yds, went home and installed an Apex trigger and spring kit. The next morning the shot group was about 1/2 the size. As with out of the box Glocks, I shoot low/left with SD as well. I pushed the rear sight 3/4 turn to right, still low but now I can hit the 8" target consistently out to 25yds.
WHY? I worked in a firearms store here in the 'PEOPLES REPUBLIK of KALIFORNISTAN'. I had never fired an SD and wanted to get some 1st hand experience with it. After my modifications I can shoot it as well as a Glock, now it cost more than a civilian model Glock. Glock doesn't cut rifling into barrels but instead forges them with the twist in barrel, much the same way H&K produce theirs, SD uses traditional cut rifling. I had used the SD as my store gun when working.
If shopping around find a shop that has a range and has pistols available to try and compare.

 

[Florida J Frame]

Glocks have a better trigger but if S&W can turn these guns out for 300 dollars then why can't glock?I think that S&W's price point is the main attraction here,a lot of folks would probably opt for the S&W just because they dont want to spend the extra 200.It would be nice to see more sigma/sd torture tests on youtube,I've seen plenty of glock and hi-point torture test,never seen a sigma torture test.My sw9ve has never ever had a hiccup and I'm sure the sd line is just as reliable,I'll take a M&P over both though.

I'm sure Glock could retail their pistols for $300 by why cheapen the brand? I doubt that the $200 difference loses them many sales. People buy the brand due to it's reputation for reliability and the fact that it's accepted by police and military around the world. They are also smart enough to market to those organizations to maintain that reputation. Other than the M&P line how many S&W handguns do you see in professional use?

 

[SamMeow]

Ahh, another resurrected post.

 

[sd9boi]

Got the SD9VE due to price. I simply couldn't afford a G-19 or SA XD-9 !! I've put 3K + rounds through this pistol in 15 months. I've had 6 MALF's, 3 due to operator error and 3 due to ammo issues. The SD fits my hands better (slightly) than the G-19. This is another reason I bought it, it was just slightly longer. I like this pistol and it should serve me well until I can obtain a G-19, at which time the SD becomes my "nightstand" gun. I like 'em both. I seriously doubt the SD will ever "kill" the G-19, but it sure will give it some competition. If S&W ever put a SMOOTH trigger on the SD, they would sell quite a few more, IMHO !!! Glock's are obviously "low-bid" guns, this is (IMHO) the main reason they have sewed up the LEO market. That and THEY WORK !! Perfection ????? Not even close, BUT as close as anyone has gotten. The G-19 also has a LOT more "time-in-grade" as a service weapon. That's a lot of time to play catch-up !!

 

[Disabled1]

There are a few GLOCK parts that fit on the SDVE series. For instance, in my SD9VE I have a G19 SS guide rod. I also have a GLOCK take down bar made by WOLF, that is slightly longer, making it easier to remove the slide.
If I'm mistaken, some GLOCK rear sights will fit on the SDVE. But, I installed a factory M&P rear sight on my SD9VE. The factory SD9VE rear sight is plastic with dots painted onto it. There isn't even any indentations for the painted dots!