DAO

[Arik]

I'm really not trying to offend but when one backs off and looks at it, the DAO pistol really looks like one of the dumber ideas of our time.

I suppose my point is that we wouldn't abide a trigger with DAO characteristics on our long guns so why would we do a switch-er-roo and laud the wretched things on our handguns?

Another point to make is that I want to carry a handgun that has the same fine trigger capabilities as my rifles have rather than one that impedes with a consistently long, heavy pull. I don't mind safeties and simply don't want to deal with DAO pistols. I'm not required to use them and don't enjoy using their triggers. When it comes to the safety of the DAO trigger I'm unconcerned as I more about shooting than carrying, and other designs with nice triggers may be safely carried with perfect satisfaction. Thankfully, there are different strokes for different folks and they make handguns like the one below for folks like me. With the flip of a simple switch, a fine trigger is made available for every purpose.


Actually, I've been warming up to the notion of the TDA guns that 18DAI and others mention, a trigger concept that's looking more sensible lately as a reasonable alternative to the single-action-only designs.

I don't see how they have long heavy trigger pulls. All my DAO come in at about 5lbs and none have anything aftermarket. On the other hand my HK Sa/Da is one heavy beast of a trigger. So are most Berettas and CZ with the occasional Sig as well. I pick up any new Glock/M&P one after the other and they all feel the same. I pick up any DA/SA gun of the same manufacturer and they are inconsistent. Ones a little heavier, 5 he other is a lot lighter. ..

1911s are nice but I wouldn't consider what they have as a trigger. It's simply letting go of the hammer

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[18DAI]

The reason DAO became popular was due to lawyers, lawsuits and decreased training budgets. Not because it is superior to any other handgun action.

There were a couple of high profile cases during the 80's of LEO's shooting miscreants who happened to be minorities. It was alleged in these incidents that the officers had cocked the hammers on their pistols and accidently shot and killed the miscreants.

Chiefs, bean counters and lawyers felt that guns with spurless hammers and TDA guns rendered DAO would prevent the issue and reduce lawsuits based on the theory that an officer accidently shot and killed a suspect.

Glock was becoming popular around this time and several other manufacturers designed DAO pistols and marketed them to LE agencies.

It was espoused at the time that officers transitioning from revolvers to semi auto's would have an easier time learning a DAO semi auto than a TDA or SA pistol.

Supposedly, the DAO guns are easier to teach rookies to use. Keep in mind that we are talking about the 80's and early 90's when there were still many new recruits who; A: Had an interest and some exposure to firearms. B: Had actually fired different types of firearms and C: Still lived in a society where handguns and ownership of same were only beginning to be demonized by the progressives and their lap dog media.

Back then, compared to today, we were still largely a "gun culture". Now it is not only common, but becoming normal for the majority of LE recruits to have zero firearms experience and many have never fired a gun before the academy. Hence the term "Glock babies". Having never been exposed to anything but a Glock, they believe that Glocks are the be all end all gun.

With budgets being what they are, there is little money for training or practice. To satisfy the bean counters and lawyers it is easier and more cost effective to stick a DAO or striker fired gun in their hands, get them to shoot the bare minimum score and call it good.

My 0.02 from 20 years on the job and double that shooting handguns. Regards 18DAI

 

[HYPURR]

...ongoing

Sincere appreciation for all of the thoughts, opinions, etc. A variety of directions though. I really am looking for the following as I would not buy one to shoot; just something different to add to the collection...like anything BNIB; 4586/5943TSW...

"What are some opinions on this from a standpoint of collectability vs the same of our more favorite DA/SA models?"

Best, Dave

 

[Kadonny]

Sincere appreciation for all of the thoughts, opinions, etc. A variety of directions though. I really am looking for the following as I would not buy one to shoot; just something different to add to the collection...like anything BNIB; 4586/5943TSW...

"What are some opinions on this from a standpoint of collectability vs the same of our more favorite DA/SA models?"

Best, Dave

Conventional wisdom was that many feel the same way as bmcgilvray, and just don't like the DAO thus prices for these guns are lesser than their TDA counterparts. However, I think the tide is turning and the DAO guns are gaining in popularity and thus pricing. Just my opinion though.

Here is my LNIB 5943TSW I picked up a few weeks ago. I love this gun.

 

[Arik]

The reason DAO became popular was due to lawyers, lawsuits and decreased training budgets. Not because it is superior to any other handgun action.

There were a couple of high profile cases during the 80's of LEO's shooting miscreants who happened to be minorities. It was alleged in these incidents that the officers had cocked the hammers on their pistols and accidently shot and killed the miscreants.

Chiefs, bean counters and lawyers felt that guns with spurless hammers and TDA guns rendered DAO would prevent the issue and reduce lawsuits based on the theory that an officer accidently shot and killed a suspect.

Glock was becoming popular around this time and several other manufacturers designed DAO pistols and marketed them to LE agencies.

It was espoused at the time that officers transitioning from revolvers to semi auto's would have an easier time learning a DAO semi auto than a TDA or SA pistol.

Supposedly, the DAO guns are easier to teach rookies to use. Keep in mind that we are talking about the 80's and early 90's when there were still many new recruits who; A: Had an interest and some exposure to firearms. B: Had actually fired different types of firearms and C: Still lived in a society where handguns and ownership of same were only beginning to be demonized by the progressives and their lap dog media.

Back then, compared to today, we were still largely a "gun culture". Now it is not only common, but becoming normal for the majority of LE recruits to have zero firearms experience and many have never fired a gun before the academy. Hence the term "Glock babies". Having never been exposed to anything but a Glock, they believe that Glocks are the be all end all gun.

With budgets being what they are, there is little money for training or practice. To satisfy the bean counters and lawyers it is easier and more cost effective to stick a DAO or striker fired gun in their hands, get them to shoot the bare minimum score and call it good.

My 0.02 from 20 years on the job and double that shooting handguns. Regards 18DAI

I get all that but I still don't see what makes a DA/SA superior to DAO, regardless of gun manufacturer

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[BLUEDOT37]

Glock babies

..."Glock babies". Having never been exposed to anything but a Glock, they believe that Glocks are the be all end all gun.

Not related but...

Couldn't help but think this is what my one son likes to say about people who are in love with anything/everything (Apple) iPhone...

Now back to our regular program.

 

[nocents]

I get all that but I still don't see what makes a DA/SA superior to DAO, regardless of gun manufacturer

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I don't see anything in his post trying to make the case that TDA is superior......I see a case made for lack of funding for training and an unwillingness to put the time into training......and....the 800 lb. gorilla that is always present...liability.....

 

[deanodog]

I have owned two DAO 3rd gen S&Ws and still own one 6946. I prefer it over 3913s and 6906s I owned. I have 5906s and 6906s but I prefer the 6946.

 

[18DAI]

And in the end that is what its all about. Personal preference.

Unless you work for an agency which dictates what will be in your holster. Thankfully I've never worked for one of those.

My preference is TDA. I get fast accurate hits with it and I like a DA first pull. But I do not suggest that TDA is the only way nor the best mechanism for everyone else.

But I will say that IN MY OPINION, mastering TDA guns will enable you to shoot any trigger type well. And in all the newbs I've taught to shoot over the years, not one ever complained about or had an issue with a TDA trigger. Not one. Nor did they complain about decockers or safeties, but thats another topic for another thread. Regards 18DAI

 

[loeman]

An Observation!

I prefer TDA but only because I have no real experience with DAO. Also, I can't add anything new or astute to what has already been said. However, I do want to add this casual observation. 3rd gens are an interest of mine and I always look for them at my LGSs. Over the past year or so what have I seen? More DAOs than TDAs in used 3rd Gens.