DAO

[HYPURR]

I had never really paid any attention to these. In the day LE DAO seemed "too restrictive" and not an option I'd ever consider owning. Seems these are alittle more desired and rarer in some of their unique configurations as 3rd Gen's are highly prized, collected, etc.

What are some opinions on this from a standpoint of collectability vs the same of our more favorite DA/SA models?

Thanks for your thoughts. Dave

 

[kaveman]

I personally love the gen3 DAO guns. I've always had a dislike for TDA and consequently avoided the S&W autos(I made exceptions for TDA pistols that could be carried cocked and locked as long as the safety was NOT situated on the slide,.....CZ75, early Beretta M92, etc). Until I learned about the gen3 DAO I didn't expect that I'd ever own a S&W auto. Now I have about two dozen.

I have branched out a little and have picked up a few non-DAO Smiths but only for range toys. Found a deal on some cheap imported 39-2's and bought three of them along with a 915. At least these are single sided and I don't need to worry about carrying them. They seem OK. Conversely, I picked up a 5906 just yesterday and it reminded me again just how much I dislike the TDA and how in-the-way the ambi safety is. I think I almost hate that gun. I know I would never carry it,..............but again,...............it was cheap. I just plan to keep it around in case someone more comfortable with TDA needs it. In my opinion, the smooth exterior, simple manual of arms, and consistent trigger of the DAO trumps any advantage the TDA could hope to offer.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Funny! I have always like TDA. I have a 5903 SSV that is NIB that I put away a long time ago, but I'm happy to shoot my CS-45 or my recently acquired 6906. Not to mention any other "brands".

But I think I would like a DAO pistol just as well. I have never acquired one but I think I'd be happy to own it and carry it - I love the 3rd Gen guns and now I'll think about a DAO if I see one for sale!

***GRJ***

 

[Fishinfool]

Can't speak to values on the DA guns vs the DA/SA models. But I do know they made the transition for cops going from revolvers to auto's easier.

Personally, I really like the DA auto as a defensive / duty weapon. People talk about quick tactical trigger resets, crisp trigger pulls, etc., but I know of a lot of serious DA only shooters who smoke a combat course with their weapons. Just takes practice. Remember, all those fine motor skills that allow you to take advantage of things like a quick trigger re-set on the range, go out the window in a real situation.

Larry

 

[ColbyBruce]

The S&W 3953 is my favorite CCW. I like the DAO system, but do wish the gun had a repeat trigger pull.

My first S&W DAO was a 5946. It was heavier than I cared to tote, but was a fine pistol otherwise.

The S&W DAO pistols are not popular in my area and I would not tie up a lot of money in one.

I have three Sig pistols that are DAO that do have repeat trigger pulls that I like.

 

[Ascension]

I own a 4043 and at first was not so big on the DAO but now after getting used to it I love it. I carry the 4043 more than any other pistol I own right now.
On the range it took a little time getting the feel for the DAO trigger (which on mine with a 16 lb hammer spring measures out at 9 lbs) but once I did I think it has made me a better shooter. The smooth long DAO trigger has forced me to really work on my trigger control and follow through. I now shoot very well and constantly with the 4043 and am really glad I bought it.

 

[S&W1006]

I can't speak to the collectability of the DAO 3rd gens. I know they are harder to come by so someday that might translate to higher value due to lower production numbers. I used to wonder why anybody would want a DAO but after discovering revolvers I prefer a DAO. I love the short reset of the 3rd gens I can do double taps as fast as I can with a single action trigger.

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[Kadonny]

Love my 3rd gen DAOs, I have 3 of them. My favorite carry of them is my 6946, my favorite to ogle over is my 5943TSW.

 

[rwsmith]

This goes for me, too.

Can't speak to values on the DA guns vs the DA/SA models. But I do know they made the transition for cops going from revolvers to auto's easier.

Personally, I really like the DA auto as a defensive / duty weapon. People talk about quick tactical trigger resets, crisp trigger pulls, etc., but I know of a lot of serious DA only shooters who smoke a combat course with their weapons. Just takes practice. Remember, all those fine motor skills that allow you to take advantage of things like a quick trigger re-set on the range, go out the window in a real situation.

Larry

For defense, a pistol you pick up and pull the trigger to shoot works for me as well. I'll learn a manual of arms thoroughly for a more complex pistol but I can't make my family do the same and be confident. DA revolver to DA pistol. That's the first consideration.

 

[GKC]

I don't care for the DAO variants, personally. I much prefer the traditional DA/SA action on these guns, as well as SIGs, and other similar guns.

I do like M&Ps and similar polymer pistols, but they aren't DAO actions.

 

[bmcgilvray]

I loathe DAO handguns with a deep abiding passion.

There was a time when DAO was scarce on the ground, being only found on the Smith & Wesson Centennial model revolvers and that odd H&K VP 70.

When DAO became popular it took the handgun world by storm, both law enforcement agencies and individual shooters embracing it. Despite the fact that it's the popular thing to do now, I don't have to like it. The rifles and shotguns enjoyed around here don't have triggers with a designed-in impediment to overcome in order to shoot well.

DAO triggers are a particular flavor of "yuck."

 

[BLUEDOT37]

DAO collectability

I don't know about collectability on DAOs either but I suspect it's just like the opinions expressed here. People who love them collect them, while the others don't.

I've been a revolver guy since day one but I never got into shooting them DA. I was always a plinker or target shooter & SA worked for me best so DAO autos don't have a special draw (no punk intended) for me. I do like the smoothness of their triggers, compared to the DA of a TDA. Besides the lack of a repeat pull feature, what I don't like about DAOs, when I'm target shooting, is after you squeeze off a round & you slowly release/reset the trigger, you have to wait until the second click to be able to fire again. On TDAs the first click is just a short travel forward of the stop to fire again. Once you get used to that, & then try to shoot a DAO the same way, you'll quickly get annoyed because the first click gets you nothing in a DAO. If I shoot a DAO enough I become less prone to the issue, but again, it's not my first nature.

I do agree that they are good for anyone who's been shooting revolvers DA, or, for a novice/casual shooter as they are simplier than a TDA, not having a blocker/decocker to think about, & a long trigger pull to reduce accidental discharges. Might that be their collectability attraction?

 

[Kadonny]

The rifles and shotguns enjoyed around here don't have triggers with a designed-in impediment to overcome in order to shoot well.

DAO triggers are a particular flavor of "yuck."

Not sure I get your point about rifles and shotguns. It's not primarily about shooting the DAO well, it's more about carrying, for duty use or personal use, with a trigger that is consistent, reliable and safe while not employing a safety. I think the DAO makes perfect sense.

 

[18DAI]

I only own two DAO guns. One revolver and one semi auto.

My preference is TDA guns. I've never had a problem with the much ballyhooed on the internet "double to single action transition".

I simply roll my trigger and control it. And I practice too.

I think that DAO triggers led us to these lousy triggers on all those striker fired guns. I'm sure Apex Tactical is happy about that. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI

 

[nocents]

as usual "18" is on point with his observations....in my opinion....I too never understood all the hub bub about the transition on TDA......but then I practice using TDA....A LOT....and the only time I use the decocker is as a decocker and the argument about the lack of decock levers makes for a slimmer profile....ok true....is that really an issue for most of us that are probably packn' a little extra around the middle anyway.....but anyone that is more comfortable with DAO....thank you......that leaves more TDA guns for the rest of us

 

[bmcgilvray]

Not sure I get your point about rifles and shotguns. It's not primarily about shooting the DAO well, it's more about carrying, for duty use or personal use, with a trigger that is consistent, reliable and safe while not employing a safety. I think the DAO makes perfect sense.

I'm really not trying to offend but when one backs off and looks at it, the DAO pistol really looks like one of the dumber ideas of our time.

I suppose my point is that we wouldn't abide a trigger with DAO characteristics on our long guns so why would we do a switch-er-roo and laud the wretched things on our handguns?

Another point to make is that I want to carry a handgun that has the same fine trigger capabilities as my rifles have rather than one that impedes with a consistently long, heavy pull. I don't mind safeties and simply don't want to deal with DAO pistols. I'm not required to use them and don't enjoy using their triggers. When it comes to the safety of the DAO trigger I'm unconcerned as I more about shooting than carrying, and other designs with nice triggers may be safely carried with perfect satisfaction. Thankfully, there are different strokes for different folks and they make handguns like the one below for folks like me. With the flip of a simple switch, a fine trigger is made available for every purpose.


Actually, I've been warming up to the notion of the TDA guns that 18DAI and others mention, a trigger concept that's looking more sensible lately as a reasonable alternative to the single-action-only designs.

 

[SMSgt]

As long as it goes bang when I pull it, I don't care what action you call it.

 

[VictorLouis]

How many of you recall the Mossberg 500/590 pattern that they set up with DAO a few years back? IIRC, it was in the catalog one year, gone the next.

Seriously though, I cut my teeth on a 659 as my first gun at 19yo. I had NO trouble with transition, and I worked at it. This was before the advent of current safety-holster technology of today, and I carried it on-safe. Time came when I had to draw down on a miscreant off-duty, and the 'click' of the safety HAD TO HAVE SOUNDED like the cocking of a hammer to him, LOL.

 

[Ascension]

It's not primarily about shooting the DAO well, it's more about carrying, for duty use or personal use, with a trigger that is consistent, reliable and safe while not employing a safety. I think the DAO makes perfect sense.

I agree on the consistent reliable and safe carry without a safety being a big +. However for me as a shooter picking up the 4043 has been a blessing. It's a long story how I got her and normally would not have bought the pistol because it was a DAO.
I own now a 1066 and a Browning High Power + a little Taurus TCP .380 which is DAO. The Taurus has a trigger that is fantastic and was MUCH better than the Glocks I have owned and it was that pistol in the end that convinced me to try the 4043.
At first it had a heavy pull and I was pulling low consistently with it but lightened the pull with a 16lb hammer spring and a little internal slicking up. Now after some practice on my trigger control I find I shoot the 4043 as well as I do the SAO High Power i have owned over 20 years. The practice I put into trigger control with the 4043 dry firing it with a snap cap has also payed off in my SAO shooting with my other pistols.
The DAO may not be for every one but owning this one has sure helped me as a shooter. That 4043 today is the pistol on my side as I type and the one I carry out more often that any other I own.
Don't know if I will buy another S&W 2 or 3 gen DAO in the future but I'm keeping the 4043 that's for certain!

 

[Kadonny]

I'm really not trying to offend but when one backs off and looks at it, the DAO pistol really looks like one of the dumber ideas of our time.

I suppose my point is that we wouldn't abide a trigger with DAO characteristics on our long guns so why would we do a switch-er-roo and laud the wretched things on our handguns?

Another point to make is that I want to carry a handgun that has the same fine trigger capabilities as my rifles have rather than one that impedes with a consistently long, heavy pull. I don't mind safeties and simply don't want to deal with DAO pistols. I'm not required to use them and don't enjoy using their triggers. When it comes to the safety of the DAO trigger I'm unconcerned as I more about shooting than carrying, and other designs with nice triggers may be safely carried with perfect satisfaction. Thankfully, there are different strokes for different folks and they make handguns like the one below for folks like me. With the flip of a simple switch, a fine trigger is made available for every purpose.

Actually, I've been warming up to the notion of the TDA guns that 18DAI and others mention, a trigger concept that's looking more sensible lately as a reasonable alternative to the single-action-only designs.

I don't mean to offend either, but you comparing an apple to a hamburger. How can you even think of comparing a long gun to a pistol that you carry around all day strapped to your body and handle multiple times a day fully loaded, you can't.

The reasons the DAO was produced are well documented and obviously the DAO is effective in what it is meant to accomplish, just look at the popularity. A ton of DAO guns have been made and continue to be made for a reason, and continue to be used by LEOs for a reason. Just because you like the traditional SA and don't mind a safety does not mean it is the best option practicality wise on the streets.

 

[Arik]

I'm really not trying to offend but when one backs off and looks at it, the DAO pistol really looks like one of the dumber ideas of our time.

I suppose my point is that we wouldn't abide a trigger with DAO characteristics on our long guns so why would we do a switch-er-roo and laud the wretched things on our handguns?

Another point to make is that I want to carry a handgun that has the same fine trigger capabilities as my rifles have rather than one that impedes with a consistently long, heavy pull. I don't mind safeties and simply don't want to deal with DAO pistols. I'm not required to use them and don't enjoy using their triggers. When it comes to the safety of the DAO trigger I'm unconcerned as I more about shooting than carrying, and other designs with nice triggers may be safely carried with perfect satisfaction. Thankfully, there are different strokes for different folks and they make handguns like the one below for folks like me. With the flip of a simple switch, a fine trigger is made available for every purpose.


Actually, I've been warming up to the notion of the TDA guns that 18DAI and others mention, a trigger concept that's looking more sensible lately as a reasonable alternative to the single-action-only designs.

I don't see how they have long heavy trigger pulls. All my DAO come in at about 5lbs and none have anything aftermarket. On the other hand my HK Sa/Da is one heavy beast of a trigger. So are most Berettas and CZ with the occasional Sig as well. I pick up any new Glock/M&P one after the other and they all feel the same. I pick up any DA/SA gun of the same manufacturer and they are inconsistent. Ones a little heavier, 5 he other is a lot lighter. ..

1911s are nice but I wouldn't consider what they have as a trigger. It's simply letting go of the hammer

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[18DAI]

The reason DAO became popular was due to lawyers, lawsuits and decreased training budgets. Not because it is superior to any other handgun action.

There were a couple of high profile cases during the 80's of LEO's shooting miscreants who happened to be minorities. It was alleged in these incidents that the officers had cocked the hammers on their pistols and accidently shot and killed the miscreants.

Chiefs, bean counters and lawyers felt that guns with spurless hammers and TDA guns rendered DAO would prevent the issue and reduce lawsuits based on the theory that an officer accidently shot and killed a suspect.

Glock was becoming popular around this time and several other manufacturers designed DAO pistols and marketed them to LE agencies.

It was espoused at the time that officers transitioning from revolvers to semi auto's would have an easier time learning a DAO semi auto than a TDA or SA pistol.

Supposedly, the DAO guns are easier to teach rookies to use. Keep in mind that we are talking about the 80's and early 90's when there were still many new recruits who; A: Had an interest and some exposure to firearms. B: Had actually fired different types of firearms and C: Still lived in a society where handguns and ownership of same were only beginning to be demonized by the progressives and their lap dog media.

Back then, compared to today, we were still largely a "gun culture". Now it is not only common, but becoming normal for the majority of LE recruits to have zero firearms experience and many have never fired a gun before the academy. Hence the term "Glock babies". Having never been exposed to anything but a Glock, they believe that Glocks are the be all end all gun.

With budgets being what they are, there is little money for training or practice. To satisfy the bean counters and lawyers it is easier and more cost effective to stick a DAO or striker fired gun in their hands, get them to shoot the bare minimum score and call it good.

My 0.02 from 20 years on the job and double that shooting handguns. Regards 18DAI

 

[HYPURR]

...ongoing

Sincere appreciation for all of the thoughts, opinions, etc. A variety of directions though. I really am looking for the following as I would not buy one to shoot; just something different to add to the collection...like anything BNIB; 4586/5943TSW...

"What are some opinions on this from a standpoint of collectability vs the same of our more favorite DA/SA models?"

Best, Dave

 

[Kadonny]

Sincere appreciation for all of the thoughts, opinions, etc. A variety of directions though. I really am looking for the following as I would not buy one to shoot; just something different to add to the collection...like anything BNIB; 4586/5943TSW...

"What are some opinions on this from a standpoint of collectability vs the same of our more favorite DA/SA models?"

Best, Dave

Conventional wisdom was that many feel the same way as bmcgilvray, and just don't like the DAO thus prices for these guns are lesser than their TDA counterparts. However, I think the tide is turning and the DAO guns are gaining in popularity and thus pricing. Just my opinion though.

Here is my LNIB 5943TSW I picked up a few weeks ago. I love this gun.

 

[Arik]

The reason DAO became popular was due to lawyers, lawsuits and decreased training budgets. Not because it is superior to any other handgun action.

There were a couple of high profile cases during the 80's of LEO's shooting miscreants who happened to be minorities. It was alleged in these incidents that the officers had cocked the hammers on their pistols and accidently shot and killed the miscreants.

Chiefs, bean counters and lawyers felt that guns with spurless hammers and TDA guns rendered DAO would prevent the issue and reduce lawsuits based on the theory that an officer accidently shot and killed a suspect.

Glock was becoming popular around this time and several other manufacturers designed DAO pistols and marketed them to LE agencies.

It was espoused at the time that officers transitioning from revolvers to semi auto's would have an easier time learning a DAO semi auto than a TDA or SA pistol.

Supposedly, the DAO guns are easier to teach rookies to use. Keep in mind that we are talking about the 80's and early 90's when there were still many new recruits who; A: Had an interest and some exposure to firearms. B: Had actually fired different types of firearms and C: Still lived in a society where handguns and ownership of same were only beginning to be demonized by the progressives and their lap dog media.

Back then, compared to today, we were still largely a "gun culture". Now it is not only common, but becoming normal for the majority of LE recruits to have zero firearms experience and many have never fired a gun before the academy. Hence the term "Glock babies". Having never been exposed to anything but a Glock, they believe that Glocks are the be all end all gun.

With budgets being what they are, there is little money for training or practice. To satisfy the bean counters and lawyers it is easier and more cost effective to stick a DAO or striker fired gun in their hands, get them to shoot the bare minimum score and call it good.

My 0.02 from 20 years on the job and double that shooting handguns. Regards 18DAI

I get all that but I still don't see what makes a DA/SA superior to DAO, regardless of gun manufacturer

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[BLUEDOT37]

Glock babies

..."Glock babies". Having never been exposed to anything but a Glock, they believe that Glocks are the be all end all gun.

Not related but...

Couldn't help but think this is what my one son likes to say about people who are in love with anything/everything (Apple) iPhone...

Now back to our regular program.

 

[nocents]

I get all that but I still don't see what makes a DA/SA superior to DAO, regardless of gun manufacturer

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I don't see anything in his post trying to make the case that TDA is superior......I see a case made for lack of funding for training and an unwillingness to put the time into training......and....the 800 lb. gorilla that is always present...liability.....

 

[deanodog]

I have owned two DAO 3rd gen S&Ws and still own one 6946. I prefer it over 3913s and 6906s I owned. I have 5906s and 6906s but I prefer the 6946.

 

[18DAI]

And in the end that is what its all about. Personal preference.

Unless you work for an agency which dictates what will be in your holster. Thankfully I've never worked for one of those.

My preference is TDA. I get fast accurate hits with it and I like a DA first pull. But I do not suggest that TDA is the only way nor the best mechanism for everyone else.

But I will say that IN MY OPINION, mastering TDA guns will enable you to shoot any trigger type well. And in all the newbs I've taught to shoot over the years, not one ever complained about or had an issue with a TDA trigger. Not one. Nor did they complain about decockers or safeties, but thats another topic for another thread. Regards 18DAI

 

[loeman]

An Observation!

I prefer TDA but only because I have no real experience with DAO. Also, I can't add anything new or astute to what has already been said. However, I do want to add this casual observation. 3rd gens are an interest of mine and I always look for them at my LGSs. Over the past year or so what have I seen? More DAOs than TDAs in used 3rd Gens.