CCW: Keep one in the pipe?

[shouldazagged]

I've seen enough of this, guys. Nobody is convincing anybody, it's gotten personal, and I can do without it nicely.

 

[Well Armed]

If you think that holstering and unholstering a gun is more dangerous than being in a gunfight, you have a bigger problem than gunfights.

Stawman much? Were and when did I say that holstering and unholstering a gun is more dangerous than being in a gunfight? Why completely ignore the point that was made and instead purposely characterize my position? Is it because you know I'm right, and you were unable to rebut it?

 

[cmort666]

Straw man fallacy.

Not for the guy in the Dayton gas station.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Straw man fallacy.


But if you go down this road I'll argue that holstering the weapon gives more time for the assailant to execute their attack and therefore a pistol drawn ready position, one in the pipe of course, is the only real way to not give the assailant time to execute their attack. No sense in giving them the one more second it will take you to get the weapon out of the holster. If you can't carry at the high ready position at all times you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

Now I understand.

 

[rcp1936]

For all you Glock and MP types that carry with one in the pipe and no thumb safety would you think it is OK to carry a 1911 cocked but thumb safety off because that is what you are saying --your guns are cocked you just can't see the striker like you can the hammer on a 1911

In addition you are telling people you can't get your gun into action and sweep a thumb safety off but that you can get your tee shirt windbreaker etc etc using 2 hands out of the way to get at your gun --to me that is more problematic than a TS

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Stawman much? Were and when did I say that holstering and unholstering a gun is more dangerous than being in a gunfight? Why completely ignore the point that was made and instead purposely characterize my position? Is it because you know I'm right, and you were unable to rebut it?

You wrote the following words:

Does his point not still apply? Still, you're firearm is unholstered and reholstered more often than you'd logically would ever be in a gun fight correct?

If you feel that I didn't understand what you meant by them, please feel free to tell us what you DID mean by them.

 

[Arik]

For all you Glock and MP types that carry with one in the pipe and no thumb safety would you think it is OK to carry a 1911 cocked but thumb safety off because that is what you are saying --your guns are cocked you just can't see the striker like you can the hammer on a 1911

In addition you are telling people you can't get your gun into action and sweep a thumb safety off but that you can get your tee shirt windbreaker etc etc using 2 hands out of the way to get at your gun --to me that is more problematic than a TS

Not really. The striker gun is not cocked, not like a 1911. They don't function the same way. The simplest way to explain a striker is that it's partially cocked. When you first pull the trigger on a Glock it starts to cock the firing pin all the way into fully cocked position as it does that (and here is the important part) it also pushes the FIRING PIN SAFETY up and out of the way. It also moves the trigger bar to the rear so that it's behind the DROP SAFETY. This allows the trigger bar to be cammed down away from the firing pin lug by the connector when the 2nd stage of trigger pull is completed which finally let's the firing pin go. On a 1911 you are simply letting the hammer fall. On the glock and other striker guns you basically have the 2 safeties inside and automated.

There are even 1911s that operate in a similar fashion. Cylinder and Slide make a conversion that let's the user keep the hammer down without the possibility of touching the firing pin. When the thumb safety is pushed down it rotated the hammer into the fully cocked position. I believe STI made a model like this too.


Originally the topic was not about the use of safeties but keeping a round chambered

 

[rcp1936]

Not really. The striker gun is not cocked, not like a 1911. They don't function the same way. The simplest way to explain a striker is that it's partially cocked. When you first pull the trigger on a Glock it starts to cock the firing pin all the way into fully cocked position as it does that (and here is the important part) it also pushes the FIRING PIN SAFETY up and out of the way. It also moves the trigger bar to the rear so that it's behind the DROP SAFETY. This allows the trigger bar to be cammed down away from the firing pin lug by the connector when the 2nd stage of trigger pull is completed which finally let's the firing pin go. On a 1911 you are simply letting the hammer fall. On the glock and other striker guns you basically have the 2 safeties inside and automated.

There are even 1911s that operate in a similar fashion. Cylinder and Slide make a conversion that let's the user keep the hammer down without the possibility of touching the firing pin. When the thumb safety is pushed down it rotated the hammer into the fully cocked position. I believe STI made a model like this too.


Originally the topic was not about the use of safeties but keeping a round chambered

The fact is you have free travel then a 5-5--3.5 force to make it go bang just like a 1911

And the argument being if you carry with a rd chambered you should have a TS

 

[Arik]

The fact is you NEED external safies on a 1911. I'm not bashing the 1911, that's how it functions. Those safeties are there for a reason. Similar guns without those safeties are ment to be carried on an empty chamber (Tokarev). You DO NOT NEED them on a striker. Take the safety off a 1911 and drop it on the hammer. Then drop the striker gun. See which is safer. But yes all guns are the same...pull trigger and bullet comes out.

 

[macski222]

Worlds most pointless debate. No ones swaying anyone here. Carry how you feel comfortable doing so. Who cares what the next guy thinks.

This thread has just become a bunch of back and forth bickering about someone's personal preference. To each their own.

Baaahhh!!

With that being said, I'm off to grab the popcorn and beer.
I work nights, don't judge me

 

[Smoke]

Straw man fallacy.


But if you go down this road I'll argue that holstering the weapon gives more time for the assailant to execute their attack and therefore a pistol drawn ready position, one in the pipe of course, is the only real way to not give the assailant time to execute their attack. No sense in giving them the one more second it will take you to get the weapon out of the holster. If you can't carry at the high ready position at all times you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

Speaking of straw men.....

In most jurisdictions what you describe if not actually illegal will draw near constant police attention.

Ultimately it's your life and your decision.

You live (or not) with the consequences

 

[Smoke]

For all you Glock and MP types that carry with one in the pipe and no thumb safety would you think it is OK to carry a 1911 cocked but thumb safety off because that is what you are saying --your guns are cocked you just can't see the striker like you can the hammer on a 1911

I've told this story before but...

The first handgun I ever owned was a S&W model 915, it was designed to be carried decocked, in DA mode but I didn’t know that.

Almost everyone I knew at the time was an M1911 aficionado and they all carried in condition one, generally in a level one retention holster with the strap seated between the hammer and the firing pin.

Not knowing any better I carried my 915 like that for 6 months until someone squared me away.

Now in case I haven’t made myself explicitly clear here I walked around with a cocked and unlocked pistol in my holster for 6 months.

Now as UNSAFE as I now KNOW this is, I have to admit the pistol never “went off” during that time.

I have to ask my self how much less likely a modern firearm, in good working order, carried properly would be to just “go off”

 

[Muss Muggins]

The fact is you have free travel then a 5-5--3.5 force to make it go bang just like a 1911

And the argument being if you carry with a rd chambered you should have a TS

Again, you don't understand how it works. The firing pin in a striker fired pistol is not floating around free.

 

[shouldazagged]

Like a fool I looked in on this thread again. My mistake. It's still pointless, personal and irritating.

For John Moses Browning's sake, guys, carry however you like. Please. You aren't going to sway your adversaries here.

I'll now go pray for relief from the morbid curiosity that made me check it one more time.

 

[686-380]

Obviously, it's informative and entertaining enough to have over 500 (and counting) replies.

Myself, I do keep one chambered, with the safety on...

 

[cmort666]

The fact is you have free travel then a 5-5--3.5 force to make it go bang just like a 1911

Please post a picture of the safety in the face of an M1911 trigger.

 

[rcp1936]

Again, you don't understand how it works. The firing pin in a striker fired pistol is not floating around free.

Fact is you have free travel then pull the trigger with 3.5 to 5.5 force and it goes bang just like a 1911
We are talking about ND when holstering unholstering etc

 

[rcp1936]

Please post a picture of the safety in the face of an M1911 trigger.

What are you talking about

 

[rcp1936]

The fact is you NEED external safies on a 1911. I'm not bashing the 1911, that's how it functions. Those safeties are there for a reason. Similar guns without those safeties are ment to be carried on an empty chamber (Tokarev). You DO NOT NEED them on a striker. Take the safety off a 1911 and drop it on the hammer. Then drop the striker gun. See which is safer. But yes all guns are the same...pull trigger and bullet comes out.

Ain't talking about dropping the gun
We are talking about NDs

 

[Arik]

If carrying bullets in a gun without a safety scares you for some reason then dont. Carry it in a small safe if you want to. I have no problems with it. I trust the design and more importantly I trust me to look before I holster.