New Shield (NTS) and Why S&W adamant locking down the Rear Sight (Rant)

[wagswvu]

Picked up the new No Thumb Safety model of the Shield 9mm. Trigger wasn't bad, it was crisp but heavy (lot heaver then some safety versions I shot, not sure if S&W making these a littler stiffer with lack of the safety). My scale averages 8.5lb, yikes.. So as I have done on my other M&Ps is order up an apex kit.

The frame components go in without a hitch but where it gets frustrating is I can't get the set screw out for the rear sight (I have other M&P and know all the ticks to break the red Loctite. and have done them). So I took it down to my Gunsmith (he did the same processing breaking the red Loctite) and he was having issues to as the set screw will not budge, and said he didn't think there was a way to get this out without drilling it because anymore force and you strip screw anyways. SUCKS!

I wasn't happy and call S&W and complained. The Rep I talked with wasn't surprised and said recently they are using something like a pneumatic driver to torque down the set screws in line with their policy that the rear sight is not to be moved. I already heard they are using hydraulic press to push in the sights now the set screw too. That's crazy to me, why not just welding them on there if they don't want you to remove them.

Rant over... I got trigger pull down to about 6lb so I'm happy. Just when I do want to change sights, I guess I will have to send it away which is a big pain in the ***.

 

[AVG]

Did you try a soldering iron to heat the screw and then see if it comes loose?. That is what I have done on grip screw to remove them.

 

[dullh]

Your "rant" is a non sequitur.

A small torch, with a small flame, directly directly at the screw, will soften the loctite enough to allow the screw to be backed out. I have done sight replacements and/or Apex kit installs on nine (9) M&P pistols so far and not once have I spent more than 40 seconds getting both the screw out and the rear sight off.

 

[wagswvu]

Did you try a soldering iron to heat the screw and then see if it comes loose?. That is what I have done on grip screw to remove them.

Yes, I have stated I have done this on other full size and compact m&p that I own
none of them where this difficult, used soldering iron. Even my gun smith use one 3 times and it still will not budge, not even a little.

 

[robkarrob]

The soldering gun does not always allow enough heat to penetrate into the screw. Use a propane or mapp torch, turn the slide upside down, as heat rises. You need to get the bottom of the screw to near 400 degrees. Put the tip of the inner torch gas cone (hottest area) on the screw, for about 8-10 seconds, holding the slide upside down. This short time will not allow the heat to damage the plastic cap on the blocker spring, and do not water quench the slide. Use a high quality (not cheap) allen head (hex) wrench. The worst thing is you twist the wrench, you will not strip out the screw, but I will bet the screw will come out. S&W can't drive it in so hard, as they have to service the guns, and also have to get that screw out.

Bob

 

[MIST]

On my NTS Shield 9, the set screw was very snug, but removable with an allen wrench.

Now, how do I remove the rear sight? It seems to be pretty tight.

 

[B0308]

"how do I remove the rear sight?"

Two good options:

If you have a decent vise, line it with leather or soft wood, lock the slide in and drive it out, left to right (viewed from the rear) with a non-marring rod.

Second, buy a sight pusher, use as directed. Generally pushing the old out left to right, new in right to left.

The new sight shop or YouTube probably has a video up giving more complete directions.

Third, take it to a decent gun shop and pay them to do the above,

I did two M&P .45's this weekend with the sight pusher option, piece of cake.

Good luck

 

[Rpg]

I suspect S&W has decided that if you don't like their pistol as it comes from the factory, they don't want your warranty claims and want to be able to argue that anything bad that happens with their products is due to aftermarket mods.

Claims have been made based on ease of modification of a firearm.

The more difficult it is to modify a firearm , the easier to defend.

Of course, it could be attributable to S&W's desire to reduce costs.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[RussC]

S&W Make Some Decent Sights

I don't feel so bad I own the Shield with the thumb safety after reading the trigger on the non safety version is 8.5 lbs and the rear sight is next to impossible to remove.

The stock rear sight on the Shield is a no go for pocket conceal and that is why I changed out my stock sights for the Big Dot night sights. The rear sight design on the Big Dot makes pocket conceal possible without snagging my pocket as I draw.

Thanks for the post. I no longer have buyers remorse for purchasing the Shield thumb safety version 2 plus years ago. Stock trigger is nice and don't have to worry about snagging my pant pocket or the white dot falling off.

If S&W is so bent on making the sight permanent why not make some decent sights so we don't have the need to purchase after market sights.

Russ

 

[macski222]

The stock rear sight on the Shield is a no go for pocket conceal and that is why I changed out my stock sights for the Big Dot night sights. The rear sight design on the Big Dot makes pocket conceal possible without snagging my pocket as I draw.

You're not lying. Those rear sites actually cut my finger the other day. I don't understand why they wouldn't break the edge at the factory. Yes it keeps machining costs down, but jeez, those things are gnarly.

I've also been looking at those XS big dots. They look real nice.

 

[wagswvu]

Your "rant" is a non sequitur.

A small torch, with a small flame, directly directly at the screw, will soften the loctite enough to allow the screw to be backed out. I have done sight replacements and/or Apex kit installs on nine (9) M&P pistols so far and not once have I spent more than 40 seconds getting both the screw out and the rear sight off.

If you're gunsmith isn't any smarter that how you described him I would look for another gunsmith - a real one.

After talking with my gun shop, they recommended somebody else. I took it to him this afternoon. He tried all the above methods including using a torch on it, but it still will not budge. He told me at this point the loctite is broken it's just torqued or locked in their good and in his opinion drastic measures would need to be taken to removing it. I'm not ready for drastic measures quite yet, since it's not that big of a deal right now. Im going to shoot it and maybe in a few months I'll get some new sights and see what we need to do to get rid of that setscrew.

 

[wagswvu]

I don't feel so bad I own the Shield with the thumb safety after reading the trigger on the non safety version is 8.5 lbs and the rear sight is next to impossible to remove.

The stock rear sight on the Shield is a no go for pocket conceal and that is why I changed out my stock sights for the Big Dot night sights. The rear sight design on the Big Dot makes pocket conceal possible without snagging my pocket as I draw.

Thanks for the post. I no longer have buyers remorse for purchasing the Shield thumb safety version 2 plus years ago. Stock trigger is nice and don't have to worry about snagging my pant pocket or the white dot falling off.

If S&W is so bent on making the sight permanent why not make some decent sights so we don't have the need to purchase after market sights.

Russ

last Christmas my cousin bought a shield. We took it out to the range and I really like the trigger (mean compared to full-size or compact m&p factory triggers it was amazing) and it felt like a 5lb tigger pull. However I'm a lefty so before they came out with a no thumb safety version it was just a nonstarter for me. So when my dealer got a no thumb safety version I snapped it up. However once I got it home and started dry firing it I noticed the trigger was extremely heavy. I mean it's a good trigger it's very crisp there's no grittiness it's just heavy (back to 5ish lb thanks apex). So I guess I'm kind of curious if Smith & Wesson intentionally made the nts version trigger heavier compared to regular safety version or that's just the luck of the draw and they have a lot of inconsistency in trigger pull weight.

 

[ajamesp51]

Heat then a good set of screw removal tools. Once you strip the head use a screw removal bit. In the shop I have had to do this a couple time for customers once they damaged the screw.

 

[wagswvu]

Your "rant" is a non sequitur.

A small torch, with a small flame, directly directly at the screw, will soften the loctite enough to allow the screw to be backed out. I have done sight replacements and/or Apex kit installs on nine (9) M&P pistols so far and not once have I spent more than 40 seconds getting both the screw out and the rear sight off.

If you're gunsmith isn't any smarter that how you described him I would look for another gunsmith - a real one.

In general I agree, and Like I said I have 4 other m&p that I was able to remove their sets crews and sights very quickly. However this is my first shield and it doesn't seem to conform with my experience of my other full-size and compact m&ps. whether or not Smith & Wesson change the process for how they apply the sights & setscrew or if the person who installed mine just freaking hulked out on it. My rant was born out of frustration after taking it to a gun smith (and another now) and being told needs to be drill out, because I thought the red Loctite on the setscrew was a pain in the *** in the first place and unnecessary. now it seems it they have gotten worse for the shield or at lease mine.

 

[R1V3R5]

I was wondering if the trigger pull was heavier on the no-safety version. Your post sort of confirms my suspicion. Although we probably need someone to take the newest safety and no-safety versions, and actually get some real measurements.

Regarding the loctite, use heat. Noticed the new models have an excessive amount of loctite.

 

[macski222]

Regarding the loctite, use heat. Noticed the new models have an excessive amount of loctite.

He has stated several times that himself and 2 gunsmiths have tried the heat route on the rear site already lol

 

[scooter123]

Hex keys can be purchased individually from dealers like Production Tool or MSC, which means they are cheap enough to be considered throwaway items. Most homes also have an OVEN, a fantastic device for heating something up to a temperature ranging from 100 to 500 degrees.

It's probably too late now but from the start when faced with doing something like this I use my Oven. Heating an item like your slide up to 150 degrees isn't any worse than a hot soak in a car on a summer day and it is hot enough to soften all of the Locktite formulations with the exception of the high temperature specialty formulations. BTW, I've used the high temp locktite and it wont work with small threads. Once heated you need to wear some good leather gloves and work quickly, so after taking it out of the oven insert the hex key and twist it until the screw comes free or you bend/break the hex key trying.

 

[RussC]

Torches, ovens, vises - the only thing missing is the sledge hammer.

I appreciate everyone willing to share their gunsmith tips but serious there is no way with my average handyman skills would I consider major surgery on a new gun under warranty.

Russ

 

[R1V3R5]

He has stated several times that himself and 2 gunsmiths have tried the heat route on the rear site already lol

I need to pay more attention. I thought drilling it out was their first idea, not heat. I just read back through and it looks like they have tried everything, short of dynamite. Lol.
I'm still interested in the trigger pull weight of the non-safety versus the safety version. If there is a difference.

 

[epj]

Not too long back I replaced the sights on two Shields. On the first the set screw required heat from a pencil torch to break it free. The second required just a little pressure on the Allen wrench. Both sights required a sight pusher to move them. Pics of this adventure can be found in the notable threads index located at the top of the page.