Did Keith Prefer and Carry a 29 with 4 1/2 inch Barrel??

[shawn mccarver]

For Elmer's comments on the adjustable sight Chiefs Special, the 5 inch K38 and the 5 inch 44 Magnum, all specials by H. H. Harris of Chicago, see page 8 of the March 1960 issue of Guns Magazine here:

www.gunsmagazine.com/1960issues/G0360.pdf

 

[THE PILGRIM]

For Elmer's comments on the adjustable sight Chiefs Special, the 5 inch K38 and the 5 inch 44 Magnum, all specials by H. H. Harris of Chicago, see page 8 of the March 1960 issue of Guns Magazine here:

www.gunsmagazine.com/1960issues/G0360.pdf

I see that Skeeter is still 'Allen.'
A lot of you young guys may not know that Gen. Curtis LeMay was probably the most gun savvy General after Patton.

 

[gkitch]

General LeMay would roll over in his grave if he knew what the modern Air Force Generals did with his rifle and pistol teams. Nimitz would view today's Naval flag officers in a similar light for much the same reason.

 

[JeepinSoldier]

I've read a lot of Keith's writings. In the late sixties and way on into the seventies, Sixguns was my handgun Bible. I read it over and over and over. I even took the book on trips with me, and annotated my copy of it with my own thoughts and data. The majority of my handloads were based on Keith data. He was something of a hero to me when I was a younger man, the man who had all the answers to my sixgun questions.

That said, just because you're a famous gun writer, guru, sportsman, whatever doesn't put you above the law. In retrospect (and this eagle incident, if true, is a good example), Keith now seems something of a showoff to me and more than a little egotistical. He would not be a role model for me today as he was over forty years ago. He would no longer be one of the Gods of Guns for me.

While it may be true that eagles eat lambs, fawns, etc., that's part of the natural order of things. Keith inserted himself into that natural order, killed an eagle just because he didn't "like" it or the law that was enacted to protect it, and had no plans to eat it. Even animals don't kill for "sport".

While I agree that shooting at an Eagle is appalling, I think that this incident if true and not just hearsay - shows that Keith was a normal person, just like the rest of us with our own failings, likes and dislikes. Nobody is perfect.

 

[JeepinSoldier]

For Elmer's comments on the adjustable sight Chiefs Special, the 5 inch K38 and the 5 inch 44 Magnum, all specials by H. H. Harris of Chicago, see page 8 of the March 1960 issue of Guns Magazine here:

www.gunsmagazine.com/1960issues/G0360.pdf

Thanks for the link Sean!

Great article on Keith. I read several articles and enjoyed looking at the Milsurp ads. 6 Garands and ammo for 80 bucks!

I realize that 80 dollars was a lot of money in 1960 but it sure would have been a good investment.

 

[Frank237]

I visited Mr. Keith at his home in Salmon in late 1979. The gun he had sitting on his mantle where it appeared he had his Land Cruiser keys, some change and a few dollars....was a 4" M-29. Don't recall it being mag-na-ported though. Would have remembered that for sure.

As far as the eagle incident. One must recall he grew up on a Ranch and later ranched himself. Vastly different times than now. The loss of calves or lambs hurt the operation. And I'd imagine in the 1920's and especially during the Great Depression of the 1930's ranches were operating on a narrow profit margin.

And Eagles WILL surely predate on calves and lambs.

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

A 4" 1950 .44 Target will always be the Gun I think of when I hear Elmer's name.

 

[eb07]

I love my 4" model 29

 

[Jim Watson]

A quick flip through the supplement to Sixguns finds no mention of a 4.5" S&W. Elmer describes son Ted hunting with a Harris 5".

Eagles were not always highly regarded, especially in the West.
Read Elmer's hilarious account of the mysterious bag on muleback.
And P.O. Ackley was still building eagle rifles in the 1960s.

 

[Abbotson]

I just finished "Hell, I Was There." He related several tales of Goldens especially taking young fawns and ewes seemingly for sport. He said they would kill and let it go and go back for another. Hated coyotes and wolves too.

 

[Dump1567]

I read today in "Sixguns" that 4" was perfect when in the saddle (unless you where taller, a 5" would work). And 4" was the fastest for drawing (IIRC).

But like all things in life, we seem to evolve and our choices may change with age and time.

 

[BigBill]

If Elmer Keith shot his 4" barreled 44 @ 230yards how far did he shoot his rifles??

 

[M29since14]

Elmer's first 29 was, if I recall, "remodeled," as he called it, by The Gun Reblue Co., and the barrel was cut to 4 1/2 inches from its original 6 1/2 inch length. It was also engraved during that "remodel" and he had it stocked in his trademark ivory magna stocks. That said, I believe he later used the standard 4 inch version.

That recollection does sound familiar, but I wonder if it was his "first" 44 Magnum? I thought I had heard that the "first" 44 Magnum he received was a blued 6-1/2" gun, and that it was in the Cabela's display, as it came from the factory - but of course my memory could be at fault. Does anyone know for sure?

I also wonder if, as Bigfoot44 says, the cause for the 4-1/2" barrel was not just to make the lettering on the barrel center up nicer. Makes sense to me. Given Keith's constant harping on how he preferred the 4-inch gun with magna stocks, I can imagine that the 4-1/2" barrel might have come about that way.

On the other hand, if there was another 44 Magnum (a 4-1/2" gun that was special-ordered by Keith, and then later engraved), then the position of the lettering should not have been a factor... ?

So is the modified gun actually his "first" 44 Magnum, or is that gun still in original condition at Cabela's, or elsewhere? How many 4-1/2" guns did Elmer have?

 

[Jim Watson]

A picture in Sixguns shows "the first 4 inch .44 Magnum, engraved by the Gun Reblue Co.

 

[shawn mccarver]

That recollection does sound familiar, but I wonder if it was his "first" 44 Magnum? I thought I had heard that the "first" 44 Magnum he received was a blued 6-1/2" gun, and that it was in the Cabela's display, as it came from the factory - but of course my memory could be at fault. Does anyone know for sure?

Here is what John Taffin wrote after handling Elmer's "sixguns" following Elmer's stroke:

"Keith's first .44 Magnum was a 6 1/2" Smith and Wesson that was soon cut to 4 1/2", and engraved and stocked by the now defunct Gun Reblue Co. This sixgun was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. It too is a beautiful specimen with its full engraving and steerhead grips and like all of the .44's, has Keith's signature on the sideplate."

THE SIXGUNS OF ELMER KEITH

See the link in my post #10 if you want to see a picture of the revolver in question.

 

[M29since14]

Shawn, I cannot view the photo because network security "embargoes" the website but do you know if that gun is s/n S147220? I believe that is the s/n that Bill has identified as being the first 44 Magnum shipped to Keith, if memory serves. (Bill, if you see this and that s/n is incorrect, please say so.)

Thanks for the link to the Taffin article.

 

[shawn mccarver]

M29since14:

I went back and reviewed more sources. There is a discrepancy in information related to the 4 1/2 inch engraved 44 Magnum.

The Gun Digest Book at this address:

The Gun Digest Book of the .44 - John Taffin - Google Books

clearly says that the 4 1/2 inch engraved revolver pictured was the first 44 Magnum Elmer received, and that it was cut down from 6 1/2 inches, engraved, etc., by The Gun Reblue Company, and that the cut back revolver was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. See page 143.

However, the November 2008 issue of Handloader has an article by Brian Pearce about the Elmer Keith museum. Volume 43, No. 6 shows a picture of both the 6 1/2 inch 44 Magnum and the 4 1/2 inch engraved, cut-back, 44 Magnum. That article, by Brian Pearce, begins on page 256. The article says that S147220 was the third 44 Magnum shipped, that it was shipped to Elmer Keith and that it had a 6 1/2 inch barrel. The article goes on to state that the 6 1/2 inch is pictured (original barrel intact), and that it was the one Elmer used to make the finishing shot on the Mule Deer at +/- 600 yards. In that same article is a picture of the 4 1/2 inch cut back 44 Magnum, with the engraving and signature, and the ivory stocks. The plaque displayed with the 4 1/2 inch engraved revolver reads, "This original barrel length on this very early 44 Magnum was 6 1/2." Keith had Don Gowan of the Gun Reblue Co. cut the barrel to 4 1/2 inches, cover it with full engraving and stock it with ivory in Keith's favorite carving pattern, the Longhorn steer."

The Taffin article, however, seems to disagree with the Pearce article. Taffin states:

"Keith's first .44 Magnum was a 6 1/2" Smith and Wesson that was soon cut to 4 1/2", and engraved and stocked by the now defunct Gun Reblue Co. This sixgun was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. It too is a beautiful specimen with its full engraving and steerhead grips and like all of the .44's, has Keith's signature on the sideplate." The Taffin article is here:

THE SIXGUNS OF ELMER KEITH

So, in conclusion, I have no idea. I always thought, based on the Taffin information and the information on the plaque with the display, that the 4 1/2 inch cut back from 6 1/2 inch was the first 44 Magnum Keith received. If I were betting, however, my bet goes with Taffin.

EDIT: See also here:

http://www.sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/bot44c21.htm

and check the caption under Picture 21-22.

I hope that helps.

Shawn

 

[S.B.]

Elmer Keith considered the 4 inch M29 as the best belt gun. Power was just right and the 4 inch doesnt push up your belt when seated. Also best for law enforcement. He considered the revolver a backup to a rifle when hunting and for use when the opportunity came up, not a primary hunting tool. He was asked what he would pick for hunting and said the 6 and 1/2 inch M29.

Read a couple of his books. He makes a good case for the 4 inch M29.

I thought I'd read every book Elmer wrote but, I've never read the quote you posted??? What books did you read this in???
Steve

 

[Homie]

Gents,
I don't think it's Taffin's fault- Elmer included a picture of the 4 1/2" gun in his October '57 GUNS magazine column "RELOADING THE .44 MAGNUM", with the notation that it was the "First .44 Magnum shipped from the factory......".
Maybe John Taffin could post the # of that one and straighten this out, assuming he's still the involved with the display. Brian Pearce may know the # as well. He's certainly an expert on Elmer.

 

[Dump1567]

In "Sixguns by Keith" (1961 Edition), on page 303 he states the best barrel length for gun fighting is 4" to 5" and prefers the 4" S&W (he carried the .44 Spl.) or 4 3/4" in a single action.

On page 314 he speaks of the 4" .44 Mag as being the finest peace officer gun to date and how he carries one daily.