Did Keith Prefer and Carry a 29 with 4 1/2 inch Barrel??

[Dump1567]

I read today in "Sixguns" that 4" was perfect when in the saddle (unless you where taller, a 5" would work). And 4" was the fastest for drawing (IIRC).

But like all things in life, we seem to evolve and our choices may change with age and time.

 

[BigBill]

If Elmer Keith shot his 4" barreled 44 @ 230yards how far did he shoot his rifles??

 

[M29since14]

Elmer's first 29 was, if I recall, "remodeled," as he called it, by The Gun Reblue Co., and the barrel was cut to 4 1/2 inches from its original 6 1/2 inch length. It was also engraved during that "remodel" and he had it stocked in his trademark ivory magna stocks. That said, I believe he later used the standard 4 inch version.

That recollection does sound familiar, but I wonder if it was his "first" 44 Magnum? I thought I had heard that the "first" 44 Magnum he received was a blued 6-1/2" gun, and that it was in the Cabela's display, as it came from the factory - but of course my memory could be at fault. Does anyone know for sure?

I also wonder if, as Bigfoot44 says, the cause for the 4-1/2" barrel was not just to make the lettering on the barrel center up nicer. Makes sense to me. Given Keith's constant harping on how he preferred the 4-inch gun with magna stocks, I can imagine that the 4-1/2" barrel might have come about that way.

On the other hand, if there was another 44 Magnum (a 4-1/2" gun that was special-ordered by Keith, and then later engraved), then the position of the lettering should not have been a factor... ?

So is the modified gun actually his "first" 44 Magnum, or is that gun still in original condition at Cabela's, or elsewhere? How many 4-1/2" guns did Elmer have?

 

[Jim Watson]

A picture in Sixguns shows "the first 4 inch .44 Magnum, engraved by the Gun Reblue Co.

 

[shawn mccarver]

That recollection does sound familiar, but I wonder if it was his "first" 44 Magnum? I thought I had heard that the "first" 44 Magnum he received was a blued 6-1/2" gun, and that it was in the Cabela's display, as it came from the factory - but of course my memory could be at fault. Does anyone know for sure?

Here is what John Taffin wrote after handling Elmer's "sixguns" following Elmer's stroke:

"Keith's first .44 Magnum was a 6 1/2" Smith and Wesson that was soon cut to 4 1/2", and engraved and stocked by the now defunct Gun Reblue Co. This sixgun was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. It too is a beautiful specimen with its full engraving and steerhead grips and like all of the .44's, has Keith's signature on the sideplate."

THE SIXGUNS OF ELMER KEITH

See the link in my post #10 if you want to see a picture of the revolver in question.

 

[M29since14]

Shawn, I cannot view the photo because network security "embargoes" the website but do you know if that gun is s/n S147220? I believe that is the s/n that Bill has identified as being the first 44 Magnum shipped to Keith, if memory serves. (Bill, if you see this and that s/n is incorrect, please say so.)

Thanks for the link to the Taffin article.

 

[shawn mccarver]

M29since14:

I went back and reviewed more sources. There is a discrepancy in information related to the 4 1/2 inch engraved 44 Magnum.

The Gun Digest Book at this address:

The Gun Digest Book of the .44 - John Taffin - Google Books

clearly says that the 4 1/2 inch engraved revolver pictured was the first 44 Magnum Elmer received, and that it was cut down from 6 1/2 inches, engraved, etc., by The Gun Reblue Company, and that the cut back revolver was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. See page 143.

However, the November 2008 issue of Handloader has an article by Brian Pearce about the Elmer Keith museum. Volume 43, No. 6 shows a picture of both the 6 1/2 inch 44 Magnum and the 4 1/2 inch engraved, cut-back, 44 Magnum. That article, by Brian Pearce, begins on page 256. The article says that S147220 was the third 44 Magnum shipped, that it was shipped to Elmer Keith and that it had a 6 1/2 inch barrel. The article goes on to state that the 6 1/2 inch is pictured (original barrel intact), and that it was the one Elmer used to make the finishing shot on the Mule Deer at +/- 600 yards. In that same article is a picture of the 4 1/2 inch cut back 44 Magnum, with the engraving and signature, and the ivory stocks. The plaque displayed with the 4 1/2 inch engraved revolver reads, "This original barrel length on this very early 44 Magnum was 6 1/2." Keith had Don Gowan of the Gun Reblue Co. cut the barrel to 4 1/2 inches, cover it with full engraving and stock it with ivory in Keith's favorite carving pattern, the Longhorn steer."

The Taffin article, however, seems to disagree with the Pearce article. Taffin states:

"Keith's first .44 Magnum was a 6 1/2" Smith and Wesson that was soon cut to 4 1/2", and engraved and stocked by the now defunct Gun Reblue Co. This sixgun was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. It too is a beautiful specimen with its full engraving and steerhead grips and like all of the .44's, has Keith's signature on the sideplate." The Taffin article is here:

THE SIXGUNS OF ELMER KEITH

So, in conclusion, I have no idea. I always thought, based on the Taffin information and the information on the plaque with the display, that the 4 1/2 inch cut back from 6 1/2 inch was the first 44 Magnum Keith received. If I were betting, however, my bet goes with Taffin.

EDIT: See also here:

http://www.sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/bot44c21.htm

and check the caption under Picture 21-22.

I hope that helps.

Shawn

 

[S.B.]

Elmer Keith considered the 4 inch M29 as the best belt gun. Power was just right and the 4 inch doesnt push up your belt when seated. Also best for law enforcement. He considered the revolver a backup to a rifle when hunting and for use when the opportunity came up, not a primary hunting tool. He was asked what he would pick for hunting and said the 6 and 1/2 inch M29.

Read a couple of his books. He makes a good case for the 4 inch M29.

I thought I'd read every book Elmer wrote but, I've never read the quote you posted??? What books did you read this in???
Steve

 

[Homie]

Gents,
I don't think it's Taffin's fault- Elmer included a picture of the 4 1/2" gun in his October '57 GUNS magazine column "RELOADING THE .44 MAGNUM", with the notation that it was the "First .44 Magnum shipped from the factory......".
Maybe John Taffin could post the # of that one and straighten this out, assuming he's still the involved with the display. Brian Pearce may know the # as well. He's certainly an expert on Elmer.

 

[Dump1567]

In "Sixguns by Keith" (1961 Edition), on page 303 he states the best barrel length for gun fighting is 4" to 5" and prefers the 4" S&W (he carried the .44 Spl.) or 4 3/4" in a single action.

On page 314 he speaks of the 4" .44 Mag as being the finest peace officer gun to date and how he carries one daily.

 

[ironhead7544]

I thought I'd read every book Elmer wrote but, I've never read the quote you posted??? What books did you read this in???
Steve

S.B.: Sorry, I don't remember exactly where I read this. Elmer used to write for Guns&Ammo magazine and I probably read all of them. I remember that one of the gun writers asked him about handgun hunting and he said he considered the handgun a backup to the rifle, not as a primary gun. But if he had to pick one it would be the 6 and 1/2 inch M29. He was all about taking the game and the rifle was best for that.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Before I read this thread I never heard of a 4.5 inch 29.
Now that I see the information on an engraved 4.5, yes Elmer certainly owned one.
But back to the original question- did Elmer prefer and carry a 4.5?
I see no information on this thread or elsewhere to support that.

 

[ddixie884]

Keith was not a large man. When he moved to town he no longer carried 5.5in SAs, as in his guiding days. He took to wearing a 4in 1950 Target, probably because he spent more time sitting in chairs and cars. Keith seems to have retired his .44spl 4in as he regarded the 44mag as the best.

Skeeter also went with a 4.5in in the M28 he had made into a .44spl for his Shooting Times article. Skeeter said he was inspired by Colt New Service guns of his youth.

 

[S.B.]

Keith was not a large man. When he moved to town he no longer carried 5.5in SAs, as in his guiding days. He took to wearing a 4in 1950 Target, probably because he spent more time sitting in chairs and cars. Keith seems to have retired his .44spl 4in as he regarded the 44mag as the best.

Skeeter also went with a 4.5in in the M28 he had made into a .44spl for his Shooting Times article. Skeeter said he was inspired by Colt New Service guns of his youth.

Now, that surprises me also? I thought Skeeter was fond of his 5" 27 with 1/10" wide front sight and Mesquite grips? But, then again Skeeter had many favorites. And of course his friend Evan Quiros(sp) had his 8&3/8" pair of 29s?
Steve

 

[ddixie884]

I believe the 6.5in Pre-29 and White Box ammo used by Brian Pearce in the Handloader article were obtained from the widow of Judge Don Martin.

 

[alwslate]

I remember Keith stating that he carried a 4" md 29 in a belt holster
all the time while at home. I think it was in his book "Sixguns" that
I read that.

 

[Doc44]

Elmer Keith mostly carried a 4-inch 44 Magnum after it became available. However, around 1960, he wrote in an article the 4 1/2-inch barrel may be ideal for law enforcement officers. The article may have inspired the order of the Model 29-2 shown below that was made by S&W and shipped in July 1963. It is the only known 44 Magnum with a 4 1/2-inch barrel. It also letters with smooth stocks.

Bill

 

[ddixie884]

Nice revolver................

 

[ADP3]

Quoting from my 2007 copy of "Best of Shooting Times and Guns & Ammo", the reprinted article "elmer keith's favorite guns" by Elmer Keith from the December 1961 Guns & Ammo.

"Since Smith & Wesson sent me the very first .44 Magnum produced and Remington the first factory loads for the same, it has been my favorite cartridge. As soon as Smith & Wesson produced the first 4-inch models of this great gun, they sent me one of the first, and I have carried it ever since for peace officer work. Later, I acquired a mate to it and also had another 6 1/2-inch gun cut down to 4 1/2 inches, which I think is an even better length than the 4 for most peace officers." "For this work , there is no finer gun than the S&W double action .44 Magnum in a 4- to 4 1/2- inch barrel or even 5 1/2" for big, tall men."

Hope that this clears things up a bit, but it only speaks of his barrel length preference for law enforcement work and not field use or personal protection.

Best Regards,
ADP3

 

[M29since14]

That info seems to indicate that S147220 was not the gun Elmer had remodeled into the 4.5-incher.

Like all of us except a very few, Elmer's opinions sometimes "modulated" as time passed and he responded to different inquiries but I think he was fairly consistent in his fondness of the 4-inch gun.

 

[shawn mccarver]

That info seems to indicate that S147220 was not the gun Elmer had remodeled into the 4.5-incher.

Like all of us except a very few, Elmer's opinions sometimes "modulated" as time passed and he responded to different inquiries but I think he was fairly consistent in his fondness of the 4-inch gun.

This is the conclusion I have drawn from this discussion. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused by quoting from some sources.

 

[Watchdog]

I just finished "Hell, I Was There." He related several tales of Goldens especially taking young fawns and ewes seemingly for sport. He said they would kill and let it go and go back for another. Hated coyotes and wolves too.

So Elmer related it. Okay. That's known as an apocryphal story. Just because Elmer Keith said it doesn't make it true. Keith liked to tell yarns as much as anyone of his generation who lived out west.

Eagles have been witnessed dropping their prey more times than you can count...most likely because they lost their grip on it because the prey was still struggling or it was too heavy, then going back for another try. Just because the eagle "let it go" doesn't mean they were doing it for sport/fun.

I saw a Red Tailed Hawk carrying off my 120-pound Rottweiler the other day, but I ran outside with my Crosman and killed it with a 70-yard shot before it got past my back fence. You believe that, don't you?

 

[M29since14]

Shawn, we still don't know anything for sure. I was hoping Bill might know the whereabouts and condition of S147220 but if he does he did not say so. I am inclined to believe it remains, somewhere, possibly at Cabela's, as Keith received it - plus a little wear and tear.

 

[RobertJ.]

I don't know the answer to the OP's question, but I do have a cool Elmer Keith story.

20 or so years ago, I was living in Idaho Falls, and "in between wives". I was dating a woman whose mother had grown up in Salmon. On one occasion, while we were all eating supper together, I asked her if she knew who Elmer Keith was. She looked at me in amazement, said yes, he lived down the street from her, and asked how I knew him. I told her I didn't know him, only about him, and explained to her that he's a legend among the shooting community. Well, she had no idea! He was only the strange old man down the street, who always wore a big hat and smoked a cigar!

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I don't know the answer to the OP's question, but I do have a cool Elmer Keith story.

20 or so years ago, I was living in Idaho Falls, and "in between wives". I was dating a woman whose mother had grown up in Salmon. On one occasion, while we were all eating supper together, I asked her if she knew who Elmer Keith was. She looked at me in amazement, said yes, he lived down the street from her, and asked how I knew him. I told her I didn't know him, only about him, and explained to her that he's a legend among the shooting community. Well, she had no idea! He was only the strange old man down the street, who always wore a big hat and smoked a cigar!

A few months ago I was over in Benson, AZ. I asked several folks if they knew the Cowboy Poet- Baxter Black. Most had never heard of him, only one ever met him. One waitress lady knew his wife.

 

[Dave Workman]

This thread showed up in something I was "kind of" working on, and I think it should be noted that Carl Helstrom presented Keith with a 4" model 29 in .44 Magnum that was intricately engraved. I never knew Elmer, but I've been told or read somewhere that he really liked engraved revolvers. There is an image on the internet of what appears to be a 4.5-inch Model 29 in .44 Magnum that was made for him.
It seems to be a commonly known fact that he carried a .44 Magnum almost daily in his later years, and I've seen that gun in video being fired. Several of Keith's guns have been auctioned.
For what it's worth, I acquired a vintage Model 57 with a 4-inch barrel a couple of years ago. Still has the firing pin on the hammer. My dear friend Raj Singh at Eagle Grips provided me with a set of handsome American elk antler grip panels, and it's one of my favorite carry guns, in .41 Magnum, a cartridge that Keith also was the cornerstone in developing.
For day-to-day wear, I usually have the gun fitted with a set of ivory polymer or bonded ivory grip panels. Eagle's elk antler grips are so "purty" that I just use them on special occasions...sort of "barbecue grips."
I've fired the gun several times with these smaller grips installed. They're very comfy in recoil.

 

[Capt. F.]

Can anyone post a reference to Keiths preference to a 4 & 1/2 ? I would love to see something in print. Are we sure were not confusing Skeeters preference for a 5" .357 or .44 special? I just don't see in Elmers books any reference to a 4 & 1/2 gun. I thought it was 4 " .NIck

Get a copy of Sixguns by Keith. It's referenced in there.

 

[Capt. F.]

He shot an eagle? Why?

He said he found many carcasses of young Big Horn sheep and mountain goats killed by Bald and Golden eagles and felt they were a prime cause of their decline. So..... He "culled the herd".

 

[Mack]

Thanks for the link Sean!

Great article on Keith. I read several articles and enjoyed looking at the Milsurp ads. 6 Garands and ammo for 80 bucks!

I realize that 80 dollars was a lot of money in 1960 but it sure would have been a good investment.

That was $80 each, the "6" was from 30-06.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Gents,
I don't think it's Taffin's fault- Elmer included a picture of the 4 1/2" gun in his October '57 GUNS magazine column "RELOADING THE .44 MAGNUM", with the notation that it was the "First .44 Magnum shipped from the factory......".
Maybe John Taffin could post the # of that one and straighten this out, assuming he's still the involved with the display. Brian Pearce may know the # as well. He's certainly an expert on Elmer.

Homie, there is no more display. All those wonderful guns were auctioned off and scattered to the 4 winds. The auction catalog is still available on line and will show everything that was auctioned and what it brought.
If my memory serves me Sixgun Strumpet of this Forum ended up with Keith's 1911.