Book recommendations Little Bighorn?

[alde]

It's no wonder this is the best Forum on the net. We have a big bunch of truely good people with similar interests. I have made some very good friends here even though we have never met face to face.

 

[handejector]

The Custer Myth by Graham

Keep the Last Bullet for Yourself by Thomas Bailey Marquis

I failed to tell you that Marquis was a rez MD in the early 1900's.
He interviewed some of the native participants in the battle! Those interviews will tell you much you won't see elsewhere.

 

[alde]

I failed to tell you that Marquis was a rez MD in the early 1900's.
He interviewed some of the native participants in the battle! Those interviews will tell you much you won't see elsewhere.

I found a copy of Keep the last bullet for yourself for $5.15 shipped. It sounds like an interesting persective.

 

[eyegots2no]

"....we must take away their commissary...."

Sheridan.

Sad.

 

[11B Lifer]

Mysteries

I've been a student of the battle for many years-absolutely fascinating-mysteries abound-As you read theories-note how conclusions are based on findings that involve many variables-most recently the discovery of expended cartridges-yet, the conclusions don't neccessarily take into account a battle field that has been picked over-eroded-weathered-for well over a century-
Not only were there extensive inquiries after the battle-but the Army attempted to track down the Indians-with little success.
The Indians were tough, resilient-and the military demonstrated tremendous perseverence-out on the midwest grasslands for months on end.
Revisionism has now turned the movement West into an evil enterprise-and Custer is vilified-yet he helped turn the tide during the Civil War-and we have Montana, Wyoming, The Dakotas etc.

 

[Smoke]

I always likeed Battle Of The Little Bighorn By Mari Sandoz

and The Custer Reader By Paul Andrew Hutton

 

[vigil617]

The results of Nebraska State Patrol forensic tests on shell cases and projectiles found after the prairie fire shed new light on things and changed a lot of theories on what happened.

Totally outgunned, outmaneuvered, and overwhelmed. Old Iron Butt just plain ran out of luck.

I saw a great documentary a few years ago that focused on the firearms used by both sides, and included very detailed maps of the area showing where casings and cartridges were found after the battle. It revealed that the Native American warriors were much better armed than the soldiers, and was a fascinating look at different parts of the fight -- where they happened, which units were involved where, etc.

I remember especially a very poignant scene describing the headlong flight of a small group of soldiers on foot toward the river, where they were quickly overcome. The locations of their bodies, which already were known, were shown in relation to the location of casings that apparently had been fired during the pursuit by the Sioux and Cheyenne men on horseback.

 

[Iggy]

Reno's fight was quite a story too. Again hit overwhelming force, a panicky retreat, and a determined defense.

21 Medals of Honor were awarded as a result of the water detail to the river to get water for the wounded.

 

[Iggy]

I saw a great documentary a few years ago that focused on the firearms used by both sides, and included very detailed maps of the area showing where casings and cartridges were found after the battle. It revealed that the Native American warriors were much better armed than the soldiers, and was a fascinating look at different parts of the fight -- where they happened, which units were involved where, etc.

I remember especially a very poignant scene describing the headlong flight of a small group of soldiers on foot toward the river, where they were quickly overcome. The locations of their bodies, which already were known, were shown in relation to the location of casings that apparently had been fired during the pursuit by the Sioux and Cheyenne men on horseback.

I found it interesting to trace the routes of the various guns in the Custer fight.
For example: A number of fired Carbine cases in one spot fired from an initial cavalry position on Calhoun Hill, until it was over run and the trooper probably killed.
Then the gun was apparently picked up and fired by an Indian in numerous places as he advanced across the battlefield to the final phase on massacre hill. Others retreating from Calhoun Hill to Keogh's position and then to massacre hill, and Indian weapons following the same paths.

The various guns were identified and routes followed by the firing pin marks on fired cases left on the battle field.
Really interesting stuff.

 

[klausinak]

Stephen Ambrose did one, Crazy Horse and Custer, not so much about Little Big Horn, but a comparison/contrast of the two "generals". Pretty good read as well...

-Klaus

 

[reddogge]

The interesting thing about the battle field is you can trace the battle by just looking at the location of the grave markers and see the panicked flight of Custer's men from the river to last stand hill.

Our tour bus denied us the pleasure of seeing the part of the battlefield where it started on the other side of the Little Bighorn.

 

[Smoke]

Al--this is outstanding:

Military History Online - A Terrible Glory: Custer and the Little Bighorn?The Last Great Battle of the American West

FWIW I found this book on Ebay for less than 5 bucks including shipping yesterday. There are like 20 copies advertised

 

[Smoke]

The interesting thing about the battle field is you can trace the battle by just looking at the location of the grave markers and see the panicked flight of Custer's men from the river to last stand hill.

Our tour bus denied us the pleasure of seeing the part of the battlefield where it started on the other side of the Little Bighorn.

I have heard a lot speculation that Custer was killed or at least mortally wounded very early in the fight and that command broke down leading to the massacre.

The problem I have with that theory is that Custer wasn't the only competent commander in the unit.

The other problem I have is that without any type of telecommunications Custer couldn't have been in over all command and couldn't have coordinated the defense of several units spread out anyway.

I've also heard speculation that Benteen deliberately abandoned Custer to his fate.

 

[jpage]

I have heard a lot speculation that Custer was killed or at least mortally wounded very early in the fight and that command broke down leading to the massacre.

The problem I have with that theory is that Custer wasn't the only competent commander in the unit.

The other problem I have is that without any type of telecommunications Custer couldn't have been in over all command and couldn't have coordinated the defense of several units spread out anyway.

I've also heard speculation that Benteen deliberately abandoned Custer to his fate.

Competent ? Custer's Brother Tom, commander of C Troop, had two MOH's awarded during the Civil War. Keogh was "the bravest man I've ever fought" according to one Lakota, whose name escapes Me.

 

[Smoke]

Competent ? Custer's Brother Tom, commander of C Troop, had two MOH's awarded during the Civil War.

Being awarded a MOH is not in and of itself a qualification for command.

Miles Keogh was kinda who I had in mind but even he probably wouldn't have had time to coordinate a defense

 

[alde]

I just finished watching the first half of Son of the Morning Star. I am really enjoying it. I plan to watch the rest of it on the weekend. You guys have vouched for it's decent historical accuracy which makes it that much more enjoyable. Beautiful scenery too. No wonder you guys that live in that part of the country love it so much.

 

[george minze]

Love him or hate him..Custer will live on in History when even some of our presidents will be forgotten...Sitting Bull is next...People who don't know who their senator is, know who Sitting Bull is.....It has become a cottage industry second guessing the Battle of The Little Big Horn...What ever the truth is or what we want it to be, Custer, Sitting Bull, and The Little Big Horn, will live in History for the next hundred years....I'll bet we will have another bunch of professors wearing a Stetson or a buckskin coat spouting off about the battle...

 

[CO_Kid]

I have both The Last Stand, and A Terrible Glory.

I highly recommend both. Great reads, and both do a great job of setting the scene and giving the back story so that someone unfamiliar with the battle can get the picture.

 

[CO_Kid]

I have heard a lot speculation that Custer was killed or at least mortally wounded very early in the fight and that command broke down leading to the massacre.

The problem I have with that theory is that Custer wasn't the only competent commander in the unit.

The other problem I have is that without any type of telecommunications Custer couldn't have been in over all command and couldn't have coordinated the defense of several units spread out anyway.

I've also heard speculation that Benteen deliberately abandoned Custer to his fate.

Historians, for the most part, discredit the account of Custer being killed at the outset. An Indian stated that she had shot a soldier wearing a buckskin coat as Custer's column advanced. They speculate that it was Custer, however many soldiers wore that type of clothing, Custer was found on LSH with a bullet to the temple, and he was left unscalped. A study in Sioux history shows that they did not scalp enemies that they did not kill (suicides).

As far as Benteen, I personally do not believe he abandoned Custer. In fact, I believe that if it were not for Benteen, most, if not all, of the regiment would have been wiped out. When Benteen arrived at Reno's position, Reno, who outranked Benteen, ordered Benteen to stay with his (Reno's) battalion. Reno, from all accounts, was completely ineffective (hence the RCOI), and Benteen took control of Reno Hill. Now, it is well known that Benteen hated Custer, but I think that Benteen would have tried to get to Custer if not for Reno.

 

[Wyo]

I found it interesting to trace the routes of the various guns in the Custer fight.
For example: A number of fired Carbine cases in one spot fired from an initial cavalry position on Calhoun Hill, until it was over run and the trooper probably killed.
Then the gun was apparently picked up and fired by an Indian in numerous places as he advanced across the battlefield to the final phase on massacre hill. Others retreating from Calhoun Hill to Keogh's position and then to massacre hill, and Indian weapons following the same paths.

The various guns were identified and routes followed by the firing pin marks on fired cases left on the battle field.
Really interesting stuff.

This information is all spelled out in the book by Richard Fox that I mentioned above. It is fascinating!