Another one goes back to Springfield

[Anton Chigurh]

Had some good luck/bad luck with a couple of K frames: saw both a 2003 edition 617 6" with TT & TH and a new model 66 at one of my two "go to" shops. Wrangled a decent, actually pretty good, deal for both.
While farting around with the 617, it became apparent the sear engagement was faulty, resulting in the infamous "push-off" condition. Back to the store, and then back to the factory. It happens.
And then while doing a spec check on the 66 (which is a really well made gun with great pulls, both SA & DA, AND I like the 4.2" bbl), I discovered the ball detent is in contact with...............nothing.



Sent this pic to Springfield, they must have seen what I saw, and made it very easy to send the firearm back.
But. It just seems that these kinds of post are becoming way too frequent. I guess I am now a S&W QA associate.
BTW, what is turn around these days? I guess I could call, and probably will, but just tossed the question out with the post.
Not all honked off (the sear situation is almost certainly on the shoulders of the previous owner, and if the 66 gets fixed for free, no issues), just a little sad about the quality of new firearms being turned out these days, not just S&W.
The only "wow" guns I have bought in the last few years are Colt's 1911s, and a SIG 556. No cosmetic or functional issues, unlike some Smiths and Rugers I have bought. Not to mention the whole Springfield Armory XDs "upgrade" situation.

 

[Helderberg]

I had a 442 in for some work and I had it back in about three weeks, free both ways. It is funny you praise Sig as I just went through a real warranty disaster with them, ended up selling both my Sig's and vowing to never owning another Sig in my life. I now have only S&W so I guess it all comes down to an individual's own experience with any company. I know many love Sig but not me after what I went through. YMMV.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

It's a crapshoot. Even GLOCK has had some bad press in the last few years

 

[diyj98]

A friend recently picked up a 629 he ordered new. It has the worst trigger I've ever tried on a S&W. I'm a Smith fan, but I can't believe they let this one out of the factory.

 

[M29since14]

Without meaning to pile on SIG, I have a 556 that cannot be brought to any sort of usable zero. It went to SIG for correction and came back just as sent. I didn't feel like sending it back again and intend to use it with a scope. I am sure they would say it is within spec.

We are buying assembly line guns that are being made as fast as possible to supply the current hysterical demand - and it is showing. The good part is that S&W does better than many companies at standing behind their products, IMO, but that does not mean it's not annoying to have to send your brand new revolver back in for repair.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

It seems SIG had a superlative record when they were made overseas. Not doing as well in New Hampshire, is it? So much for New England craftsmanship. Or, the mother ship just makes them boys crank out the goods with little regard for quality.

 

[Wyatt p. Tato]

I am a long time S&W owner. My first center fire purchase was a model 19, it was my only firearm that failed during use. During my police academy firearms qualification the hammer return spring broke it was sent to the service center for repair I was out of work for 6 weeks waiting for repair. The department did not supply firearms and I could not afford a spare. I have owned many firearms since. The only ones that have needed repair were new smiths. The last 4 I have purchased had problems. Model 25 mountain gun the rights idle stock broke in half, model 640 barrel canted, 9 mm sigma magazine would not stay seated, M&P 9c tool marks inside the barrel reamer had damaged the lands, model 63 misfires caused by tight chambers. All these were eventually repaired, but no more for me.

I have purchased 4 new firearms from another maker this past month. Every one of them was free from problems and has worked perfectly.

I have owned Colt, Browning, Walther, taraus , Glock, Springfield, Rock River arms, smith and wesson, armalite, Ruger and many more.

I have had problems only with Smiths.

 

[M29since14]

I have owned Colt, Browning, Walther, taraus , Glock, Springfield, Rock River arms, smith and wesson, armalite, Ruger and many more.

I have had problems only with Smiths.

Quite a story. I've owned my share of guns too and have to admit I have seen more than a few problems from S&W, but being realistic, I own more S&Ws than anything else.

As to the quality of SIGs made here versus Germany, I think a valid point can be made there. On the other hand, I have seen some great shooting US-made P229s that badly out-shoot my German-made P226 and P228. No company is perfect. They are all cutting costs and ramping up output. If you want a "hand-made" gun, you have to spend the money and folks buying consumer-grade models don't want to do that, but most of us still expect that sort of quality.

 

[Wyatt p. Tato]

Quite a story. I've owned my share of guns too and have to admit I have seen more than a few problems from S&W, but being realistic, I own more S&Ws than anything else.

As to the quality of SIGs made here versus Germany, I think a valid point can be made there. On the other hand, I have seen some great shooting US-made P229s that badly out-shoot my German-made P226 and P228. No company is perfect. They are all cutting costs and ramping up output. If you want a "hand-made" gun, you have to spend the money and folks buying consumer-grade models don't want to do that, but most of us still expect that sort of quality.

I still own 4 smiths. The other four I purchased from the in-named company are far from hand crafted, but they work and have no factory defects.

 

[NZshooter]

We are buying assembly line guns that are being made as fast as possible to supply the current hysterical demand - and it is showing.

Sad, isn't it?

I'm just glad I've been a shooter for a long time and have what I want that was made before the current crisis. Constantly reading about what you mentioned and seeing it at an LGS I work at part time makes me glad I'm not buying new stuff now.

 

[NZshooter]

It seems SIG had a superlative record when they were made overseas. Not doing as well in New Hampshire, is it? So much for New England craftsmanship. Or, the mother ship just makes them boys crank out the goods with little regard for quality.

Blame that jack wagon that destroyed Kimber before moving to Sig and doing the same. Ron Cohen I think is his name? That was before the current situation, too.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

I'd like to read the work analysis that says it is cheaper to pay lots of shipping fees and labor and parts fees to correct a problem that could have been corrected before the firearm left the factory.
But I suspect, with the growth spurt of new shooters (God bless 'em, and I mean that sincerely) many wouldn't know that their "ball detent" is not set up correctly, or even what a "ball detent" is. So that one isn't coming back. Or the slightly canted barrel may get a shrug from some owners. Those aren't coming back.
Maybe I'm on to something here...........

 

[Wyatt p. Tato]

I'd like to read the work analysis that says it is cheaper to pay lots of shipping fees and labor and parts fees to correct a problem that could have been corrected before the firearm left the factory.
But I suspect, with the growth spurt of new shooters (God bless 'em, and I mean that sincerely) many wouldn't know that their "ball detent" is not set up correctly, or even what a "ball detent" is. So that one isn't coming back. Or the slightly canted barrel may get a shrug from some owners. Those aren't coming back.
Maybe I'm on to something here...........

I think you are. Many of mine were sold or traded.

 

[HarrishMasher]

I just had 2 guns come back from S&W for warranty repair this month. Just under 4 weeks turn-around for both.

The timing was off on two new guns. While they were "new", one was manufactured in 2008 and the other 2012. Both 7 shot 357s. I'm sure there have always been issues, just with the internet you hear a lot more about them. And as we all know, those who have problems are more vocal than those who don't.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Maybe I've been lucky. My biggest problem with a S&W was that the Magna grips on my M27 Classic were cut incorrectly and the topmost points stood above the frame. I thought they'd wear down - then I realized I wouldn't be carrying it enough to wear them down. It took me 4 or more years to finally return them to S&W for adjustment. Stay tuned - that's where they are now.

Other than that I have never experience a problem with a S&W handgun. We'll see what the future holds.....

Does this count? - - Okay, I will admit that I also returned two new 6906 magazines that simply were unfixable, I couldn't load more than 4 rounds into them. That's a recent problem that I bet they rectify quickly for me.

Sidebar: I have only owned 2 polymer pistols. The first was a Kel-Tec P9 that Kel-Tec basically rebuilt for me. It's still junk as far as I am concerned. I put it away in my house......I don't even know where I put it! Weird, but the gun deserves that fate for now. The other polymer pistol is a SIG-SP2022 and it is an inexpensive pistol compared to the rest of the SIG line - and it is TOP NOTCH. Easy to use, accurate, really great gun. It won't replace my love for metal-of-any-kind handguns but it is a high quality piece worthy of mention.

***GRJ***

 

[M29since14]

Sure, they know lots of the weapons they sell are never used, or are owned/handled by dummies, but unfortunately for them, these cost calculations tend to ignore customer goodwill, which is always a moving target and sometimes can be very hard to measure - until it's too late. Then, the fight back is all uphill, and often a very hard climb.

 

[Old cop]

I purchased a Glock 42 based on their reputation as well as my experience w/my old service weapon, a Gen II G23. The G42 was awful, suffered from every malfunction a semi auto can experience. It went back to the factory twice before it was fixed. I lost confidence and traded it away.

I've had similar experiences w/ S&W, Ruger & Springfield. If you buy, sell and trade enough this is going to happen. I'm pretty happy w/my current collection so don't anticipate any more problems.

 

[paintinlace]

Just got mine back took a month...

Hello all, newbie to the S&W Forums but was reading the replies and thought what the heck. I have a 340ct that is known for splitting in two so with my concerns I sent it back to Smith. All was fine with the gun but after they make you send your address and number on a sheet of paper for correct delivery, my gun was sent to my old address. Then sat at FEDEX for a week before I received it. Please note it was left on my PORCH all day! Luckily no one swiped it.. Either way I'm not sure where I stand with Smith, on one hand my Smith has never failed, the Scandium frame was said to have taken 1500 rounds in a fixture with no problems. On the other hand at 600 rounds these things are breaking. I don't know, but I agree with one other person who replied to this post. We are buying assembly line guns so we get what we get. I myself have backed up and went to buying guns that have proven themselves over the years by being nearly 100 years old and still at the range!

 

[Anton Chigurh]

The 66 is still in Springfield, but the 617 got back Friday. Mixed bag on this one. The original TT and TH were re-cut, and is safe now, with a great pull. I only sent back steel, but they restocked it with another Hogue, which is already stowed with the original, since I put Pachmayr Compact Pros on my K frames. So far so good.
Now, where they made me shake my head was that they did nothing with the freckling of 6-8 rust spots that lived under the original Hogue's, on the right side of the frame. I mean...................
I guess since the gun shop didn't specify to clean that up, it just wasn't meant to be.
Nice to get free Hogue's but would rather have had the clean up.

 

[jaymoore]

Reminds me of the off-centered chambered Glocks that started coming in about early 1989. The new chambering reamers didn't have pilots and the folk running the line figured the CNC was good enough to position the reamers correctly.

Ummm, not so much! Some chambers were off enough that there was almost no chamber mouth edge at some random position. So the other side would shave bullet jacket like mad. It was shown to the higher ups, but nothing was done until pistols started being returned for failures to chamber, etc. Even then it took Austria a while to wrap their heads around the drama. Probably ended up swapping out 150 barrels in six months or so.

The point being that especially with automated production, not only are there no eyes on product most of the time, what few inspections get done are centered around known issues.