A serious bear thread ...

[mc5aw]

I just finished reading an article about the Rutgers University student who was mauled to death by a male black bear a few months ago. Evidently, five students were hiking in NJ when the bear appeared ... but instead of instantly retreating, the students turned the situation into a photo op. The student who was killed took several photos on his phone, which was recovered by police, and one specific photo was just published. The bear is CLOSE, and coming forward.

It seems so tragic to me, that these students were either completely inexperienced with nature, or just not thinking, when the bear appeared. Obviously NJ being NJ, defensive firearms are out of the question, but even a can of bear spray could have helped avoid this tragedy. As a city kid, I went to sleep-away camp in the Adirondacks for two summers, and we learned plenty about the woods and its various creatures. Even last year, when I was hiking and had my first close up encounter with a black bear, I was cautious and a bit fearful ... as well as ready with my sidearm. Mother Nature has given us so much to appreciate, but wild is still wild, and some folks don't understand that reality.

I'm interested to see if a lawsuit comes of this sad story. Perhaps some legal sharpie will try to say the state or park was at fault for not posting enough warnings about dangerous wildlife.

 

[Jinglebob]

Why I'm not surprised

Today, what many of our youth know about wildlife comes from what they have seen on cute cartoon shows and animated movies.

 

[Frank237]

And IIRC the victim RAN from the bear which could have triggered the attack.

Visit Yellowstone or Glacier NP some time and watch the tourists trying to pet buffalo, or baby moose. Honestly. Not making it up. A lot of ignorant people out there. Clueless about wildlife.

 

[kaaskop49]

And IIRC the victim RAN from the bear which could have triggered the attack.

Visit Yellowstone or Glacier NP some time and watch the tourists trying to pet buffalo, or baby moose. Honestly. Not making it up. A lot of ignorant people out there. Clueless about wildlife.

Just read of this tragedy in an online NYC newspaper. Apparently, there is no correct way to react in these instances. If you move toward the animal, it construes this as a threat and it attacks to protect itself. If you run away, you're provoking the animal to chase you.... The five men separated and the animal chose one of them to kill.

Seems like there's no right thing to do if the animal has a yen to attack, except stay out of the woods. I do agree, however. that many folks have no idea what wild animals are and I have seen them in parks foolishly approaching the animals.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. Now I understand what the "bear thread" posters are talking about. BTW, where's the subway?

 

[Wyo]

And IIRC the victim RAN from the bear which could have triggered the attack.

Visit Yellowstone or Glacier NP some time and watch the tourists trying to pet buffalo, or baby moose. Honestly. Not making it up. A lot of ignorant people out there. Clueless about wildlife.

This is very true but nothing new. I grew up near Yellowstone and used to spend a lot of time there when I was a kid back in the '50's. They still had open dumps then so there were a lot of black bears around. They used to hang around on the highways and panhandle from passersby. I saw stuff you wouldn't believe like inviting a bear to crawl in the car for an oreo, putting little kids on bear's backs to ride like a horse, etc. People were no smarter then and, every once in a while, a tourist got killed. There aren't many bears around the highways now so the tourists harass the moose, buffalo, etc. And, every once in a while, despite all the warnings, a tourist gets killed. Cost of doing business, I guess.

I saw an interesting article recently that said griz have learned to stalk hunters in the greater Yellowstone region, knowing that they will likely be provided a meal. And at the sound of a rifle shot they come running. This is actually no surprise as people who hunt that country have known as much for several years, but there is apparently scientific proof of it now. Several of my friends have had elk stolen from them by griz, and most of the people I know that still hunt there do so in pairs - one to hunt and the other with a 12 ga. shotgun to provide security. It's kind of a spooky way to hunt!

Bears are what they are. As long as people interact with them, there will be conflict. It's sad sometimes both for the bears and for the people involved.

 

[BearBio]

As a professional wildlife biologist for a Federal agency, let me say: Wild Animals are WILD!

The more experience you have, the better you can GUESS what they are gonna do (and, conversely, the less you have..............). You learn very early in my field that things like that go with my chosen profession. STUFF happens!

 

[jtcarm]

I saw the headline on a news site,

IIRC, there was one not too long ago where a photog got killed. I remember reading state law was not to approach more than nn feet. Pics on his camera showed he was much closer, and that was before the bear charged.

Then there was the genius Tim Treadwell who though people & brown bears could lived together as friends. Apparently, the bears viewed he & his girlfriend more as livestock than friends & when one got hungry enough, he ate them both. IIRC, a good part of it was captured on audio.

I think bears have lost any fear of humans.

 

[arjay]

I think the biggest mistake people make is assuming that if they get too close all wildlife will just flee.Most will,but some get a little pissy.

 

[427mach1]

I saw the headline on a news site,

I remember reading state law was not to approach more than nn feet.

We were in Yellowstone in '12 and I seem to remember you had to stay 100 yards from bear or wolves, 25 yards away from all other wildlife. We came across a crowd of people just off the road, watching a grizzly sitting on an elk carcass. Two ladies kept inching closer and closer, trying to capture the perfect "Kodak moment", even as people were telling them not to get any closer. I told my wife to get her picture (from a safe distance) so we can get out of there without seeing what happens next.

Later, we were on a hike and had to go around a small herd of bison. We got within about 50 yards and I was uncomfortable even at that distance.

 

[eyegots2no]

I think the biggest mistake people make is assuming that if they get too close all wildlife will just flee.Most will,but some get a little pissy.

Yep.

Kinda remind me of the little girl in Alien who says, "....they mostly come out at night.......mostly"

 

[ColbyBruce]

I tote this or something similar in the north Georgia mountains due to black bears.

I like this one too, more firepower and faster to reload.

This was the first gun I bought specifically for bear defense.

 

[kaaskop49]

We all know the old saw about "prevention" and "cure." Those here who know me also know I've modified it to:

"A ton of prevention is worth an ounce of cure."

Some very savvy folks posting here today. Wish I were one of them!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[vigil617]

Instead of speculating about, and Monday-morning quarterbacking, this situation in which a young man was killed and eaten by a black bear exhibiting what wildlife officials have described as "stalking behavior" in a public wilderness preserve, perhaps you would like to read this article by the news organization that requested the photos in a public-records request.

Hiker snapped pictures of bear before fatal attack in West Milford | NJ.com

Ask yourself what you would have done differently had you not known ahead of time, as the young man did not, that this bear would have been encountered. If you did not own a gun, and went hiking with a group of friends on a nice autumn day, could you reasonably have done much differently than he did?

It appears to me that the group should not have taken photos while the bear was approximately 100 yards away and moving toward them. They did, though, and then -- prudently -- began to retreat. But the bear followed, and when the group ran, the bear apparently chased the most opportune target. The young man was attempting to escape, and yelled to his friends to contine running away -- which I think was an extremely brave act under the circumstances. It is a tragedy that he lost his life.

 

[just jim]

Darwin didn't get it quite right, it's not the survival of the fit but survival of the smart. Shame all that education didn't help the kid one bit.

 

[zzzippper]

The student who was killed took several photos on his phone, which was recovered by police, and one specific photo was just published. The bear is CLOSE, and coming forward.

Was the phone covered in bear poop?

On a serious note, the other day I saw that more people are killed by moose than brown and black bears combined.

 

[just jim]

Goes to show you as kids they were taken to a petting zoo rather than a zoo that shows how animals eat.

 

[BearBio]

"I think bears have lost any fear of humans."When you are the biggest and baddest, you never have that fear to begin with!

"Instead of speculating about, and Monday-morning quarterbacking, this situation in which a young man was killed and eaten by a black bear exhibiting what wildlife officials have described as "stalking behavior" in a public wilderness preserve, perhaps you would like to read this article by the news organization that requested the photos in a public-records request."

Predatory behavior is a whole different ball game. Fight back, as a group, and don't quit.

"On a serious note, the other day I saw that more people are killed by moose than brown and black bears combined."

"Later, we were on a hike and had to go around a small herd of bison. We got within about 50 yards and I was uncomfortable even at that distance."


Moose and bison scare me more than any bear==you can make an educated guess as to what a bear might do. Bison and moose don't even know themselves.

 

[mc5aw]

Instead of speculating about, and Monday-morning quarterbacking, this situation in which a young man was killed and eaten by a black bear exhibiting what wildlife officials have described as "stalking behavior" in a public wilderness preserve, perhaps you would like to read this article by the news organization that requested the photos in a public-records request.

Hiker snapped pictures of bear before fatal attack in West Milford | NJ.com

Ask yourself what you would have done differently had you not known ahead of time, as the young man did not, that this bear would have been encountered. If you did not own a gun, and went hiking with a group of friends on a nice autumn day, could you reasonably have done much differently than he did?

It appears to me that the group should not have taken photos while the bear was approximately 100 yards away and moving toward them. They did, though, and then -- prudently -- began to retreat. But the bear followed, and when the group ran, the bear apparently chased the most opportune target. The young man was attempting to escape, and yelled to his friends to contine running away -- which I think was an extremely brave act under the circumstances. It is a tragedy that he lost his life.

vigil ... The link you posted notes that the published photo of the approaching bear was taken from ~ 100 FEET not yards, which indicates that the victim was still not in full flight mode despite the bear being extremely close. I think that fact is telling, in that it shows that at least one of the hiking party did not fully appreciate the peril they were in until it was too late. The linked article also notes that the group of students was warned by a couple coming in the opposite direction about a bear following them ... that to me is a red flag not to be ignored. Additionally noted is the fleeing students did not break ranks until the pursuing bear was ~ 15 feet away from them. That is two running strides for an adult bear, and again indicates the group waited too long to appreciate the danger they were in, allowing the bear to close sooner than they expected.

As to doing anything differently, I believe that is a moot question simply because we (Forum members) look at the situation from a different lens ... one as hunters, outdoorsmen, or simply those more experienced with nature than the student hikers. I can only speak to my lone up-close-and-personal encounter with a black bear, and my first inclination was to freeze and monitor the bear's movement, NOT take nature photos. The bear I rolled up on was a juvenile, ~150 lbs, foraging roughly 30 yards to my right. Once I saw him, I stopped and tried to become invisible ... I had three limited choices: Run up the mountain trail; run down the mountain trail; stand my ground and wait. I opted for the third choice, and once the bear showed no interest in me, I went my way up the trail. I will note that on my way back down later on, I was VERY wary of where the bear might be, and was extremely attentive sight-wise and sound-wise, as well as ready with my revolver.

Maybe this was simply a case of Fate ... wrong place, wrong time ... for the victim. After reading the article, I was struck by the tragic randomness of the encounter.

 

[mtgianni]

Just read of this tragedy in an online NYC newspaper. Apparently, there is no correct way to react in these instances. If you move toward the animal, it construes this as a threat and it attacks to protect itself. If you run away, you're provoking the animal to chase you.... The five men separated and the animal chose one of them to kill.

Seems like there's no right thing to do if the animal has a yen to attack, except stay out of the woods. I do agree, however. that many folks have no idea what wild animals are and I have seen them in parks foolishly approaching the animals.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. Now I understand what the "bear thread" posters are talking about. BTW, where's the subway?

It varies with species and age of the animal. Cats in general will not attack a large human, small teens and kids are fair game. Bears do not like to be threatened by intimidation of meeting their stare and/or acting aggressive. OTOH, if you run you are signalling yourself as prey. Teenagers of all species do stupid things adults would not. I would guess body size for age on Cougar and Wolf, ears on a Bear. Little ears big bear, big ears little bear is the well known axiom.

 

[Shootbrownelk]

And IIRC the victim RAN from the bear which could have triggered the attack.

Visit Yellowstone or Glacier NP some time and watch the tourists trying to pet buffalo, or baby moose. Honestly. Not making it up. A lot of ignorant people out there. Clueless about wildlife.

Right Frank, I see it all the time. Yellowstone and Grand Teton parks are swarming with foreign tourists totally clueless about keeping their distance from dangerous wildlife. They think it's DisneyLand. I see knuckleheads within 30 yds of GRIZZLY bears taking phone pictures. The buffalos are the ones that get most of them. But every year Grizzlies kill and eat tourists...4 this year.