Loads in old Sierra manual....

[rwsmith]

A LONG time ago a friend had a Sierra manual that seemed to lean towards 'hunting loads'. My Speer #9 and other manuals had 6.0 grains of Unique under a 125 gr jhp as TOPS. This manual he had said a plus p load could be 6.4 to 7.0 grains of Unique. Being curious but cautious I made a small batch at the starting load of 6.4 grains and took them to the range in my mod 10 which I considered to be a strong, modern design. Let's say that it didn't exactly scare me but it startled me pretty good. Instead of working up higher I decided to drop back to 6.2 as a max and leave it at that. What the heck would 7 grains have done?? I see now that the Alliant page lists 6.1 gr Unique as a max load. Now that I'm doing .38/.357 I'd try that again sometimes. It's not a magnum load but I think I'll try it again in my L frame and imagine what it would have been like out of my 2" K frame.

I've heard people say that new Sierra manuals are wimpy but apparently at one time that wasn't true. Anybody have comments on old data?? Not like the Speer #8 that was considered to be dangerous by many but older legitimate data that seemed 'hefty'.

 

[arjay]

I kind of suspect that the latest methods for pressure testing loads are more accurate than they were 30 years ago and increasing liability has caused the current manuals to be more conservative,but I still use my old books [emoji1],but not # 8 [emoji33]

 

[Warren Sear]

For academic purposes only, the Sierra Handgun Reloading Manual, 3rd Edition, published in 1989, for 38 Special, 125 grain jacketed bullets:

Starting load of 5.2 grains of Unique provides 900 fps
Max load of 6.8 grains of Unique provides 1100 fps

Firearm used was a Smith & Wesson K-38 with 6" barrel.

 

[arjay]

Thats quite a bit hotter than my Speer #10 and Lyman # 46 show.They top out at 5.9 and 6 grs.

 

[Warren Sear]

arjay, the Lyman #47 tops out at 6.0 grains also.

Metallic Cartridge Reloading, published in 1982, 125 grain jacketed bullet, has a top load of 5.9 grains of Unique at 1000 fps, and it is listed as +P.

 

[Nevada Ed]

5.9grs of Unique in my 686 6" "L" frame gets 1012 fps.......
This is a maximum load for the Steel J frame snub, if you are brave
enough to try it and it is a +P loading.

My L frame likes 1099 fps but it is over the top for a J frame and
is a K frame maximum load in the older Alliant data books.......
but does shoot at POA and under 1" at 25 yards off a sand bag.

 

[rwsmith]

I really wonder......

For academic purposes only, the Sierra Handgun Reloading Manual, 3rd Edition, published in 1989, for 38 Special, 125 grain jacketed bullets:

Starting load of 5.2 grains of Unique provides 900 fps
Max load of 6.8 grains of Unique provides 1100 fps

Firearm used was a Smith & Wesson K-38 with 6" barrel.

I really wonder what velocity a top load of 6.8 or 7.0 of Unique under 125 JHP would get out of a 2" snubby? I see Cor-Bon has a 125 gr jhp defense round that gets 950 fps out of a 1.875" barrel. This is one reason I'd like to have another inch of barrel. In my own mind I consider 1000 fps plus to be a magic number for defense type loads.

 

[alwslate]

My Lyman Pistol and Revolver manual lists 6.0 grs Unique under a
125 gr JHP as standard pressure. In my own limited testing of loads
with a 125 gr JHP 6.0 grs Unique did not equal the velocity of my
comparison standard, Remington +P 125 gr GS HPs. The GSs
chronograph about 875 fps out of my 1 7/8" mod 60 and the 6.0 gr
Unique load was well below that.

 

[4barrel]

Here it is in black white & green--Not for the faint of heart or weak guns. This was a 6" S&W from 1985.

 

[Engineer1911]

When men were real and so were their reloading manuals. This gives new meaning to pre-lawyer or product liability.

EDIT: It wasn't just Speer, the original Accurate Arms Reloading Manual (1994) had 223 Rem load data that was more than just "Brisk" plus the powder was not consistent lot to lot. In that same time frame, the Hornady manual was right sporty in some of their load data for rifles. Science and technology has been a good thing for us reloaders.

 

[zeke]

Briefly tried light/fast 110/125 jhps loading for snubby. Evolved back to 158 lhp or flat points. Mainly for penetration, the 638 being sight regulated for 158 grainers, less muzzle blast and less worry about exceeding pressures.

Still have several boxes of Rem 125 gs's loaded up using V V 3N37 that get about 1000 fps from 4 incher.

 

[pnbrown]

i had one of those , do not try the .357mag. loads in it very scary . had to beat the cases out they were nickle when they went in brass on the way out !!!!!

 

[Nevada Ed]

I loaded the Winchesr SjHp 125gr bullet in my M49 snub nose with 6.4gr of Unique and it spit out 940 fps +/- but it felt like
a 105% load and the group started to open up on the target.

6.0grs was a lot more accurate in the little revolver and the top load so far, with this weight of bullet and powders tested.

 

[mikld]

FWIW; I sincerely doubt if lawyers had anything to do with the new vs "old" load data, as the powder companies have no control of what someone does with their product. What will have changed? The powder, doubtful. A powder company has a product that works and while some slight difference from lot to lot may occur, the basic speed/power of the powder will remain the same. The gun? Nope, a "book load" that was safe in my old Model 10 is still safe in my gun today, guns don't get weaker with age. The pressure measuring techniques? Here it is! The old copper crusher pressure testing was not real accurate, but that's what the "state of the art" was for pressure testing. Today pressure testing done with highly accurate electronic test devices are way more accurate and use PSI rather than CUP.

 

[drummer007]

Whenever I want to "shop" a load I always get out my Speer #8 manual (1st Printing, 1970). In it, for 38 Special, on page 360 they say they are using a K-38 w/6" barrel. On page 364, they show data for their 125 gr JSP. Their start load for Unique is 6.5 gr w/velocity of 1100 ft/sec. Their max load with Unique is 7.5 gr. w/velocity of 1207 ft/sec.

 

[rwsmith]

That looks like the one...

Here it is in black white & green--Not for the faint of heart or weak guns. This was a 6" S&W from 1985.

Is that the Sierra?? What vintage? You won't see anything like that anymore.

 

[ironhead7544]

A lot of the older manuals had loads that were not pressure tested. They went by "pressure signs." That is why the later tested loads are so much less powder.

 

[armorer951]

I have a Sierra manual that is dated 1971, and it lists the OP's quoted load.....with a maximum at 7.0 gr Unique at 1150fps.

 

[rwsmith]

Accuracy......

I've never heard anyone say that hot loads are the most accurate though you can get flatter trajectory at longer ranges.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I don't want to rock the boat but...........
with the 110gr Jhp bullet and the "Middle" loading of the Speer #8 book...........

I reached the +P+ Load without any problems.
One reason I like the L frame for testing out K frame +P loads.

Most data is close but then there are a few that go over board.
One just has to assume that all testing is out of a 38 K frame...
or a "Universal", shoot it all system.