new Sport 15 mislabled: 1/9 v. 1/8 5R = not happy

[cyphertext]

Ummmhummm. And the prices and profit margin on the 15T are quite a bit higher than on the Sport. Moreover, it fits more closely with the perceived needs (which may be quite different from real world needs) of the customer for that type of item.

Despite how that plays into the comment above, wonder what the source of the "information" you read was and the reliability of same? Didn't really make a whole lot of sense to supply and entry level firearm with a specialized type of barrel.

I'll also note that while both the 5r rifling form and gain twist have theoretical superiority, gain twist has pretty much been relegated to a foot note in barrel making for litterally ages. I'm not sure what the status of 5r rifling is, but it doesn't seem to be shoving conventional or polygonal rifling onto the scrap heap of history. I do know the Spec Ops folks were pretty blase' about the "advantages".

I don't remember where I read it, may have been a response from S&W customer care on arf.com... or even told that by S&W when I called to ask about the barrels when the switch happened. But yes, they took the whole world by surprise by putting such a barrel on their budget gun.

As far as the gain twist, many of us have found that the barrel is actually more accurate with the lighter loads than heavier ones. Oneeyeopen was getting superb accuracy out of some 40 grain prairie dog loads, but groups opened up when he went to 62 grain and higher loads.

 

[vipermd]

Any word from S & W or LGS??????

 

[WR Moore]

As far as the gain twist, many of us have found that the barrel is actually more accurate with the lighter loads than heavier ones. Oneeyeopen was getting superb accuracy out of some 40 grain prairie dog loads, but groups opened up when he went to 62 grain and higher loads.

Veerrrry interesting. The 1-8 twist (or faster) is a requirement for bullets longer than the 75 gr Hornaday HPBT. It should shoot the 77 & 80 gr Sierra Match Kings and the similar A-Max extremely well. At least it apparently does with conventional rifling twist.

While I wouldn't expect entry level guns to be used with such specialized ammo, perhaps the results described weren't what was expected and may be another or an alternate justification for the barrel changes besides cost effectiveness.

 

[Armybrat]

Bought my Sport from GaG in February. I had been researching the model since the Fall of 2013 and was aware of the barrel change. There was no package wrapper on the barrel or forearm, just the big plastic sack that encased the whole rifle.

I too find it odd that S&W would still be using a year & a half (at least) old spec wrapper this late.

Look before you leap?

My 1/9 Sport is a very good value and am happy it's in my safe.

 

[otisrush]

As I recall mine didn't have a label on the handguard either.

From the consumer's perspective it does seem odd how a mistake like this happens. However as someone who has worked in manufacturing envrionments I can easily see how it happens. For example, someone mistakenly changes a Bill of Materials and includes the document number for the old sticker. The system sees they don't have any - so a new order is placed with the printer. The person on the assembly line puts on the sticker that is there at their station. BOOM! Assembly/packaging error.

 

[TheMaineEvent]

What's the latest and greatest from S&W? Last post from the OP was three days ago.

 

[Golphin]

I know what you mean. My second ex wife was mis-labeled.

Let me guess labeled a blonde and you found out later really a brunette.

 

[RETSMSGT]

Me too

I purchased a new Sport today and it still had the handguard wrapper with the 1 in 8 twist label. I was aware of the change having read it here. . I pointed it out to the owner of the LGS and he just kinda chuckled and said he guessed they didn't want the expense of printing new ones. I have read of people having great accuracy with this configuration so I knew what I was buying. I have many M&P's and they have all been quality products. S&W really does need to fix the labeling though.

UPDATE: I took the new rifle to the range today, sighted in at 50 yards and after just a couple clicks of adjustment, I ate up the bulls eye with the next 100 rounds. Great shooting rifle and a blast to shoot no matter what the label said!

 

[JaPes]

I purchased a new Sport today and it still had the handguard wrapper with the 1 in 8 twist label. I was aware of the change having read it here. . I pointed it out to the owner of the LGS and he just kinda chuckled and said he guessed they didn't want the expense of printing new ones. I have read of people having great accuracy with this configuration so I knew what I was buying. I have many M&P's and they have all been quality products. S&W really does need to fix the labeling though.

IMO, 1:8 5R or 1:9 traditional the average to above average firearms enthusiast won't see the difference. The experienced competitive marksman, who for some freaking reason decided to hot rod an AR-15, that's shooting to the bleeding edge of range and accuracy, who has obsessively developed hand loads where every component is weighed, measured, and tested, who has installed the expensive trigger, free floated the rifle, topped the rifle off with expensive glass. that's the guy who will see the difference. IMO, that obsessive shooting quest isn't fun. I'm out to have a little fun.

 

[uncledoggle]

Everything but Ginger and Mary Ann has been debated here so far, but I'm still wondering what S&W had to say.

 

[smokindog]

In one of these threads, someone said S&W has been closed for the Holidays to all but emergency requests. I'm curious as well!!!

Everything but Ginger and Mary Ann has been debated here so far, but I'm still wondering what S&W had to say.

 

[spad124]

IMO, 1:8 5R or 1:9 traditional the average to above average firearms enthusiast won't see the difference. The experienced competitive marksman, who for some freaking reason decided to hot rod an AR-15, that's shooting to the bleeding edge of range and accuracy, who has obsessively developed hand loads where every component is weighed, measured, and tested, who has installed the expensive trigger, free floated the rifle, topped the rifle off with expensive glass. that's the guy who will see the difference. IMO, that obsessive shooting quest isn't fun. I'm out to have a little fun.

In addition to JaPes's list of accuracy mods most dedicated target shooters are going to change the barrel anyway and maybe have the chamber custom reamed. At least that's what my wife's grandfather did when he was building dedicated target rifles. So, 1:8R or 1:9 isn't going to matter.

However, I'm also just out for fun and almost all of my guns are more accurate than I am.

 

[Rastoff]

Whether or not the OP is seeking the "ultimate" accuracy or not is irrelevant. He bought a particular tool based on what was advertised and didn't receive that item. Thoughts about the value of why he wanted the 1:8 5R barrel have no bearing on the fact that he didn't get what he wanted.

 

[smokindog]

OK, it's been two business days that I'm pretty sure S&W was open and not one report out in the 3 of these threads (I know of) where people say they are pretty steamed. This makes me go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[WR Moore]

Possibly because either S&W pointed out or the OPs became aware of the fine print that reads: "manufacturer reserves the right to change specifications without notice" that's appeared in owners manuals and print ads for decades. I'm sure the legal eagles made sure it was on the website in at least one location.

 

[vipermd]

Whatever is on the web site means nothing, same for the print ads. He never saw the owners manual till he got home and it would not matter since it not a legal document. The only thing that does matter is what was wrapped around the forearm when it was bought, he believed that he was getting a 5.56 chamber not a 223 since that is what it said on the forearm. If I print that the barrel has dual rifling on the forearm tag and you get home to find out that this one does not have dual rifling, that is fraud. I do not have a dog in this fight, I do not believe I could shoot 1/8 vs 1/9 on a lightweight semi that would make any difference at 25 or 500 yds with ammo they liked. If I get a firearm from the company, and I leave label on gun and box stating 1x8 I better produce 1x8, mislabeled than lgs and S&W are responsible. I would really like to hear S&W's answer!!! Be Safe,

 

[NJEMT911]

I had the same issue.

Hi everyone, after reading this thread, I checked my sport that I just bought and found that I have the same issue.
I contacted Smith and Wesson customer support today and spoke to a rep about the issue. She said that this was the first she had heard of this problem but was very concerned. I directed her to this forum and she saw that I was not the only one with this issue. She got very concerned and immediately reported it to the customer support director and called me right back.
She told me that their director was aware of the problem with the labels. She said that the 5R barrels were no longer available and they didn't know why that ended up on the label but they're looking into the issue.
She offered me a full refund if I sent back the rifle. I told her that I didn't want a refund, I just wanted to find out if they could fix it.
They offered me 2 free PMags for my time and aggravation but they're back ordered. I asked if they could give me a M&P nylon rifle case instead. They said yes, so that's what I'm getting.
That's my resolution to the issue.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

S&W offering to refund the full retail price of the gun is about as good as it gets.

 

[ClayCow]

Whoa. S&W that's pretty awesome

 

[schgsd]

Does all this call into question the 1:8 twist listed for the 15T?