Where is the ammo, pricing and who's getting rich

[Snolan4571]

Ok -I have read so many answers in emails from manufacturers stating they have increased demand to meet the needs. They also state that the apportion of ammunition going to government is very small-but reality is saying different to both statements.

When all of the ammunition sites are constantly out of stock and can't get ammunition then WHERE is it.

The second consideration is who is driving up the prices. Manufacturers are stating they didn't do it. Distributors deny it and of course the retailers say they are making very little.

SO- who is in the picture that is missing? This ghost must be doing the artificial inflation.

While I know that the American public is buying it all up the part I don't understand is "there isn't MUCH to buy anywhere". So back to original question - where is it?

If manufacturers are ramped up, and shipping out as they claim and haven't raised pricing to gouge, then why are we paying these outrageous prices?

Well I think it is just like any other commodities - if the American buyer would take a deep breath and not buy for some period because of prices, everything could stabilize.

To think that a box of .22 LR sells for what we used to pay to buy a box of .45 ACP is not funny anymore. And the you can only get 2 boxes of 50.

I could only hope the manufacturers, distributors, and retailers belly up to the bar and assist in getting this under control.

Claiming that ammo is being manufactured at record rates yet there is none to buy- well, that doesn't work together in the same sentence.

The old buy vs demand thing is getting someone rich but no one admits to it and - we the buyers are the real cause.

And your thoughts?

 

[JohnSW]

There needs to be an infomercial:

"Make Big Money Speculating In Ammunition"

 

[gen3guy]

It may be a regional issue. I live in Arizona. I am able to get good center fire target ammo for $15 - $25 per box of 50. And although availability is still spotty, I have been able to get .22 lr for $20 - $30 per brick. Prices seem to be better at larger retailers like Sportsman's Warehouse an Bass Pro Shop. As a reloader, I had all but given up on finding powder, but the other day I scored a pound of Unique. Much better here now than a year ago.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

9mm seems to be available here in central Pa for $13.00 and up at the moment. This whole issue inspired me to buy a bullet mould and reload the 9mm. Now I have all I want for about $2.50 a box.

 

[moosedog]

Good question that I have not heard a reasonable answer on. Last week I saw plastic ammo can's of CCI economy 22LR ammo in 1,000 round each selling for $129.00 each at Gander Mountain!
I've never seen it that expensive before. I think that's more than most scalper's get.

 

[Ron AZ]

... if the American buyer would take a deep breath and not buy for some period because of prices, everything could stabilize.

Ok Steve. You stop buying first and once I get enough I will follow!

(Actually, I have enough ammo and have not bought any for some time. Just wishing I could get some reloading powder though.)

 

[Snolan4571]

Ok Steve. You stop buying first and once I get enough I will follow!

(Actually, I have enough ammo and have not bought any for some time. Just wishing I could get some reloading powder though.)

The only ammo I have purchased in the past 7 years is in the last 4 months. The only reason(s) I bought then is the fact I just purchased my first AR since retiring in 1992.

I have made both purchases from individual on "Arms List" and bought 1000 rds of Fed .223 for 275. And 1000 rds of xm193 LC for 330. And I think both prices were very high to what they should be. I just looked at one site with IMI M193, 1200 rds for 800. Completely insane and I hope no one buys ammo at that price.

For all my other weapons I have thousands upon thousands of new and multi thousands of reloads. This will probably also be the last ammo I buy for the AR since I now have a connection to get LC and IMI once fired brass.

All I want and the price is great- nothing. Just picked up 25,000 from my source last Saturday.

And I now have all of the items necessary to load for.223/5.56 to include 64 lbs of H335 at $5 per lb and 32 lbs of BLC2 at $4. Per lb, 50,000 CCI41 primers at $25 per k and 100,000 bullets at 49. Per k.

Don't think I will be paying inflated prices for awhile

 

[bcr22]

The reason prices rise is very simple, but almost no one believes it: supply and demand. Consumers set prices, based on how much of something is available and how much they're willing to pay. Producers don't set prices. Every time prices go up or down unexpectedly people think there's some strange conspiracy going on, and it's just a matter of supply and demand. Oil has fallen in price because the world is moving into a recession and people aren't buying as much oil anymore. Producers can artificially lower supply individually, but anytime they do they'll be losing money to their competitors who don't artificially lower supply.

 

[Bat Guano]

I just took a 400 round brick of HVHP .22 LR out of the truck where they've spent the last few years being frozen, baked, and touring Wyoming. The original price tag reads $8.99.

I bought an identical brick yesterday for $27.50.

It'll be interesting to see if any of the old ammo fails to fire. I suspect it'll do pretty well as it's decent Federal ammo and at least was protected and dry.

 

[quinn]

All of my local Walmarts report that all their 22 is bought within 5 minutes of being put in stock by the same people every day. I suppose that is where the 22 bricks I see at gun shows priced at double the Walmart price come from. Fortunately, Academy frequently has 22 at regular prices. I suspect there is a group of folks who make a living stripping the Walmart shelves to gouge at gun shows. Also, fortunately, powder has been generally available (not all varieties) at reasonable prices.

 

[JohnHancock]

Other than .22, I've been quite content with both price and selection (mostly at the local gun show or online). Even at Wal-Mart, most has been available in recent months and for a slightly higher than "normal" price. I think that, outside of normal inflation, prices have been on the high end of fair for going on a year for metro ATL / Georgia.

 

[HKSmith]

SNolan:

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about. The price of 9 mm and .45 ACP ammo has come down about 20-30% in the last year and both are readily available online in any quantity. Many other calibers are also cheaper and more available than they were. Obviously the manufacturers are meeting demand and the government isn't buying it all up.

Rimfire ammo is also more available and at lower prices, although the big online retailers are still filling old backorders so they don't have much stock to sell to new customers. I've had no trouble getting .22 LR locally (NE Ohio) for 7-9 cents/round depending on brand. On an inflation-adjusted basis, that's about the same as the penny/round I was paying in college in 1964! In fact virtually all the ammo and components I buy now are cheaper than they were then when adjusted for inflation. That's due to economies of scale and better marketing and distribution networks.

As for the price you paid for .223 ammo, 30 cents/round for American-made centerfire rifle ammo sounds reasonable. What do you think it "should" cost and why? I don't know the cost of manufacturing, distributing, and retailing ammunition but I doubt there are any newly minted billionaires in this business.

 

[Snolan4571]

SNolan:

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.

As for the price you paid for .223 ammo, 30 cents/round for American-made centerfire rifle ammo sounds reasonable. What do you think it "should" cost and why? I don't know the cost of manufacturing, distributing, and retailing ammunition but I doubt there are any newly minted billionaires in this business.

Well the same IMI is selling for about 8.5 to 10 cents a round outside the U.S. Military buddy just shipped back several 1200 round boxes and paid equivalent of $112. per box. Thanks to the good ole USAF shipping was free. And before you ask- he cannot disclose the place purchased due to being on mission at the time.

So someone is making a buck somewhere even at .30 - that is triple what he paid. Even putting in shipping costs should do no more that double the price.

All I hope is he is willing to share at that price.

 

[one eye joe]

I SEE THE SAME SELLERS OFFERING LOTS OF CCI MINI MAG, 40 GR COPPER PLATED, .22LR AMMO ON GUN BROKER CONTINUOUSLY. AS ONE LOT IS SOLD, ANOTHER AUCTION APPEARS. THIS IS NOT ONLY ONE SELLER. OBVIOUSLY, THESE SELLERS ARE SITTING ON A PILE OF AMMO, OR ARE POSITIONED SOMEWHERE IN THE SUPPLY LINE WITH THE ABILITY TO PURCHASE ALL THAT THEY WANT. THEIR PRICES ARE VERY HIGH, AND SHOW NO SIGN OFGETTING ANY LOWER. IN FACT, IF ANYTHING, THEY APPEAR TO BE ON THE RISE…..

IN THE PAST, I HAVE RESORTED TO PURCHASING CCI MINI MAG (MY FAVORITE .22LR AMMO) ON GUN BROKER AT THESE INFLATED PRICES. I HAVE COME TO REALIZE THAT IF I CONTINUE TO FEED INTO THIS SCENARIO, I AM JUST ENABLING IT TO CONTINUE. WHAT I AM GOING TO DO IS TO CLEAN AND OIL MY 617s AND PUT THEM IN THE SAFE. WHEN PRICES RETURN TO A REASONABLE AMOUNT, I WILL RETURN TO SHOOTING THEM. IN THE MEANTIME, I WILL SHOOT MY CENTERFIRES, UTILIZING THE EXCELLENT PERFORMING RELOADS, BREWED UP BY MY LGS, WHICH ARE 1/2 THE PRICE OF FACTORY AMMO……

I REALIZE THAT JUST ONE PERSON'S CHANGE IN DEMAND CANNOT EXERT ENOUGH FORCE IN A FREE MARKET TO CAUSE A LOWERING OF THE PRICE. IF ALL THE SHOOTERS OF .22LR DID IT, IT WOULD DEFINITELY HAVE AN EFFECT. OF COURSE, THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. IN ANY EVENT, THAT IS MY PLAN…..

 

[vipermd]

The only ammo I have purchased in the past 7 years is in the last 4 months. 1000 rds of Fed .223 for 275. And 1000 rds of xm193 LC for 330. And I think both prices were very high to what they should be. I just looked at one site with IMI M193, 1200 rds for 800. Completely insane and I hope no one buys ammo at that price.

It seems that the 223 you bought was very reasonable, I agree that the IMI price is very high. I would suggest that you look at ammo prices since 2000, not relying on just memory, I say this because I wondered who was getting rich till I checked the facts. I would also suggest that you look at copper, brass, lead prices nationally and globally( copper had tripled from 1999 to 2005, zinc increased 60% over that same time frame, the energy required to make (Brass) has increased. The cost of the raw materials has continued up lead was .42/lb in 1999 on 2/5/15 it was .84/lb.
22 lr on ammobot is running.09-15 /rd for standard 22 38 gr copper plated 1250fps, if you check the 22 ammo watch on this forum you can get it around 4.5-.07/round. Millions of new shooters, new guns need ammo, I am an FFL and have not gotten a single 22 lr rd from a distributor in 3 yrs, I "give" a box of 50 with new 22 lr. If you look at gun Broker there are 21 pages of 22 lr, all of it at least double of what it should be, but instead of everything being bid on, few of the 1000+ auctions have any bids, people are starting to stay away from 2-3-4X normal price.
The prices are high but coming down- you got free brass, cheap bullets and primers and it seems like they were giving away the powder at the prices you stated.
If you really want to be "unhappy" google Cabelas in canada- there is 22 lr at normal prices, without limits, But they do not ship out of canada.
Smile it is better than it was, the only people "making" money are the scalpers, I will not tell you what I think of them.
I Thank You for your service to our country, and you keep them all in the X-Ring. Be Safe,

 

[Frank46]

Two different wally worlds two different locations. Local one has had zip ammo for the last few years. Mostly win white box 45 and 40. Next town over the case was full of just about any caliber you could want. Kinda funny if you ask me why one should have almost nothing and the other fully stocked?. 22 ammo forget about it. Haven't seen any for sale in a long time. Only reason I hit the local one is that occasionally they have the wwb 45 jacketed hollow points in there on rare occasions. Still have some of the old speer "45 cal flying ashtrays" and that's for social calls. Frank

 

[littleriver1]

Wal Mart distribution system is strange. There is a Wal Mart with a distribution center ½ mile away and they get the least amount of any product that they order. I went there looking for a camera for Christmas once and the counter guy only had 1 of one of the most popular cameras on the market. He said the shipment had just come in that day and if I want to buy it there I better take that one because he would not be getting any more in. I ask why and he said that is just the way it is at that store. They only get 1 or 2 of anything they order except grocery and automotive. There is another store 30 miles away that uses the same distribution center that has anything you would want including ammo and guns. I looked at a 15-22 there yesterday.

 

[aurora40]

I've heard an industry insider state that the only reason companies are in the ammo business in the first place is that they think they can make a profit at it. If there were no profits, they wouldn't stay in that business. I also emailed one of the large online sellers of ammo, and asked them why they feel the need to screw consumers instead of selling ammo at their cost. Basically they said that if they didn't make money at it, why would they do it?

So there you go, the world is full of gouging scumbags who only make or sell us stuff because of profits. Personally I think UNICEF needs to get into the ammo-making business. No one should do anything for profit. Well, except me obviously, I need to make a profit at my job so I can pay for all this overpriced ammo...

The reason prices rise is very simple, but almost no one believes it: supply and demand. Consumers set prices, based on how much of something is available and how much they're willing to pay. Producers don't set prices. Every time prices go up or down unexpectedly people think there's some strange conspiracy going on, and it's just a matter of supply and demand. Oil has fallen in price because the world is moving into a recession and people aren't buying as much oil anymore. Producers can artificially lower supply individually, but anytime they do they'll be losing money to their competitors who don't artificially lower supply.

He's a witch!!

 

[gregintenn]

The American people can sense that something just isn't right. Look at how many firearms have been bought in the last few years. They've set all kinds of sales records.

A lot of people I know who used to always keep a box or two of ammo now have large stacks of it.

Our entire economy is based on a one or two day supply chain. The ammo manufacturers simply weren't equipped to absorb the sudden jump in sales, and with the uncertainty associated with taxes, gun laws, and various business regulations, are scared to speculate on the future and expand at this time.

I'm hoping the same thing doesn't happen with gas, food, or toilet paper. I think you'd be frightened to learn how fragile our industrial supply chain actually is.

 

[JH1951]

IMHO it is, as previously stated, supply and demand. Plain and simple. How many people do you know, and how many individuals on this board alone have admitted to "hoarding" to one degree or another? This includes myself, as I have in stock more ammo now than at any prior point in my life. And I am a geezer. People who would buy one brick of .22 in a year now buy as much as they can (supposedly fearing that another brick will not ever again be available at a 'decent' price).
And as far as 'profit' is concerned, is that not why any manufacturers and business people are in the game at all? The business community and the American enterprise system as a whole is not a charity, is it? Are we all to work for peanuts to support the common good? As a non-industry related 'outsider', I grasp fully the concept of a 'profit driven' economy. Do a quick read of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations penned back around 1776. It's a good blurb on supply and demand, greed, and profits - well worth the read. Still applies today.
p.s. Bought two bricks of CCI .22 LR on Friday for $32.00 @. Saw the invoice of my supplier - he was billed $30.00 @ . He isn't making a killing...... but he is somehow feeding his kids. And at that profit margin I don't know what he is feeding them.