Negligent Discharge - Happens in an instant!

[sgtsandman]

No, this is simply wrong. Any deisel nozzle I've ever used was larger. That doesn't mean they are all that way. It simply means what you said is incorrect.

Same here, I have never seen a diesel nozzle that is the same size as an unleaded nozzle. Old, regular gasoline nozzles, maybe. It's been too long since I've seen one. They are also usually covered with a different colored nozzle cover to help prevent inadvertent refueling in an incompatible vehicle.


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[vito]

Why would you think I am making up this story, especially since it admits how foolish/careless I have been on two occasions? The most recent accidental fill up with diesel happened about 2 years ago with my 2011 Triumph America. I assure you that the diesel hose, can and did fit into the gas tank opening on the bike. Unlike a car where there is a second hole that you press the pump into, on this motorcycle it is just a wide opening and it indeed did happen. The incident with my car took place in 1984 or 85, to my 1976 Chevy Suburban, at a gas station along the Interstate in eastern Colorado, while traveling from San Antonio to Denver to spend Christmas with friends. I don't recall what the pump was like, since obviously I wasn't paying much attention when filling my car, but about 13 gallons of diesel went into the gas tank. Don't be so sure you are right when in fact you are absolutely wrong in saying it didn't happen. And all of this was just to emphasize that any of us can have a "brain fart" or "senior moment" or whatever you want to call it and do something really dumb, even pulling a trigger on a gun that we "know" is unloaded.

 

[spdguns]

I'd be willing to bet a C Note and give odds that over 75% of the police stations in this country have a bullet hole or two where one ought not be . . .

Yes. My PD has six. Fortunately none are mine. Killed a soda machine, 2 police cars, the floor twice and a locker.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I know where I live the diesel nozzles are small and will fit into a gasoline tank's fill pipe. Don't ask me how I know....

I guess we have a different point of view. But let me ask you this, is it OK to point a gun at someone once you've verified that it's unloaded?

Naturally not - and speaking of verifying unloading, when I teach people I do tell them the 4 rules, all guns are loaded, keep your finger off the trigger, do not point it at anything you do not want to destroy, be aware of your target and what's behind it.

Then, once they get it, I show them an unloaded gun, let's assume revolver, empty cylinder, etc. I close the cylinder, hand the student the gun, and ask, "Is that gun loaded or unloaded?" Generally they say unloaded and I ask, "How do you know? Did you check it yourself?"

That DOES get their attention! I explain that it is NEVER impolite to take a gun from someone and check it to see if it is unloaded even if they handed it to you after checking it themselves.

Redundancy is never a bad thing when it comes to safety measures.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

A thread like this one is a good reminder to everyone here to keep their head clear and never forget the basic rules of gun handling.

There it is right there.

When folks discuss these things they are typically looking through a window of zero distraction. "Never happen to me..."

Problem is, if your mind is somewhere else, it's somewhere else. Just the slightest moment of distraction...

Be safe.

 

[Kframerbluvr]

My ND was while hunting with an old Stevens 12 gauge double when I was a teenager. I briskly put the butt on my knee while having my fingers inside the trigger guard. Ears rang for a day. Thank goodness that was all that was hurt...

 

[Kframerbluvr]

Yes. My PD has six. Fortunately none are mine. Killed a soda machine, 2 police cars, the floor twice and a locker.

Yep. We have had multiple lockers shot and one of our off-duty folks recently killed her washing machine with her issued Glock 23.

 

[dave holl]

My ND was while hunting with an old Stevens 12 gauge double when I was a teenager. I briskly put the butt on my knee while having my fingers inside the trigger guard. Ears rang for a day. Thank goodness that was all that was hurt...

Me too.............but with an old Marlin single barrel trap 12 ga with exposed hammer. It was 58 years ago rabbit hunting with my Dad. It was the first time he let me carry it with a shell in the chamber. In a thicket a branch tweaked the hammer, and, well, you know the rest of the story. Those old hammer guns didn't have the safety bar over the firing pin like the newer ones have. Luckily I was following what Dad taught me concerning a safe muzzle direction.

 

[RHINOWSO]

Yes, it can happen to anyone.

And yes it is negligence, pure and simple

 

[JH1951]

Yes, it can happen to anyone.

And yes it is negligence, pure and simple

Agreed! Negligence and/or ignorance is responsible for most accidents, but many are not as potentially deadly as an accident with a firearm.
"Reminders" are now even stamped on firearms in some cases. I guess that helps in the courtroom when the responsible person wants to transfer the blame to the manufacturer.

 

[JMC502]

Mine was 15 years ago with a Walther PPKS I carried left hand, safety off in a vest holster. Got off work early one morning and loosened the strap off my vest and the gun hit the floor muzzle down. The hammer rebounded and fired a round into my brand new wood floors. Thankfully it was a piece of wood and not a member of my family. Changed my thought of backup guns and the way I carried them after that. The Walther had been a beautiful German example but was made pre-drop safety. Not a great choice for a left handed guy carrying it with the safety off. My fault and I changed guns and learned a lesson I now share with my students. Great thread

 

[treedoc1]

+100

This is a cop out. Gun type doesn't matter. Observe the rules 100% of the time and ND's won't happen.

Elevated risk comes from not paying attention to what you're doing.

I do NOT believe that everyone will have an ND.

100% agree

 

[vito]

I'm 71 and never have had a ND. But past performance is not a guarantee of the future.

 

[treedoc1]

when did you start living in my guest room?

I agree. The odds of ND are drastically reduced by habits that are over-cautious and always rigorously followed. ND comes from being too relaxed around the weapon.

Personally for me:

• No loaded arms in the safe
• Ammo is not allowed in safe -- separate locked storage
• I go through the actions of "unloading" when placed in safe, and taken from safe -- even though I know they are already unloaded.
• Ammo is not allowed on workbench or gun cleaning area
• Ammo is placed in cabinet before gun cleaning begins
• Loaded arms only allowed for home protection at "ready" sites -- and are unloaded when removed from ready site
• Carry arms are loaded when leaving house and unloaded when returning. and always stay in holster.

Basically the rule is the only place that ammo is near, and my hand is on the grip (let alone the trigger), is at the range, or in the woods.

I know this will sound obsessive to many of you but, I do all this because I feel that if I did ever ND, I would strongly consider quitting the hobby.

Agree...It is a tool/sporting equipment with consequences. Why are you fondling it/ checking the trigger on the couch/kitchen table/bedroom, etc. The loaded weapon is in its holster secure on your body. All others are unloaded at the range, secured for travel, cleaned if necessary one by one,immediately put away in a secure location. Maybe it's 4 generations of firearm owners and the same no nonsense use of it for its intended purpose. They aren't play toys...that's what 8 year olds have. Your blase attitude and lack of focus incrementally may contribute to the further erosion attempts of my 2nd amendment rights. Put your big boy pants on, act like a man and pay attention to what you are doing.

 

[Muss Muggins]

No, I don't agree. Actually, Cooper said it like this, "All guns are always loaded." I will always handle guns as though they are loaded. This means I still follow the other three rules as I handle them even if I just removed the ammunition.

If you follow the dry practice rules listed above, you'll notice that they include following all four of the rules at all times. This is why you designate a place and a target that will not harm anyone should a ND happen (which won't happen if you follow the rules).

I agree that rules aren't rules if you don't follow them during a demonstration. If you sit through one of my classes, you'll see all the rules followed at all times.

Didn't Cooper have somebody fire a round through one of his Scout rifles at the ceiling of a convention center right in front of him some years back?

 

[Kanewpadle]

Didn't Cooper have somebody fire a round through one of his Scout rifles at the ceiling of a convention center right in front of him some years back?

I read somewhere that Mr Cooper put a hole through his living room window with a 44 magnum.

 

[vito]

I do consider all of your rules reasonable, other than the last one. My carry guns are of course loaded, and they stay that way. I use a GunVault to keep both my home defense gun (loaded) and my primary carry guns (loaded and holstered). When I leave the house I take a carry gun, and when I return it to the GunVault it stays loaded, ready to go the next time I leave. I certainly do not feel I am taking unnecessary risks since the carry guns stay in the holster unless I go to the range to practice with it, or clean it.

Since all of the guns I keep in my regular gun safe are unloaded, if I remove one for cleaning or other purpose, other than shooting it, I normally would not be double, or triple checking it again to make sure it is unloaded. I don't have Alzheimer's Disease.

 

[qweeks draw]

I have never done that (thank God) but I did pull a loaded shotgun out from behind the seat of my pickup one time after coming home from pheasant hunting one time. The incident left me quite shaken I can tell you. Never did remember what happened but obviously a serious break in protocol happened due to negligence on my part. Very humbling and a BIG lesson learned. Guess we all make mistakes but when we handle weapons mistakes just are not acceptable. Anyhoo like you said, thank God no one was injured from your mistake OR mine.

 

[martybee]

It has happened to me also!
Many years ago while in the USCG and stationed in Havi, Hawaii, I was cleaning the 1911 .45 cal.
security weapon. I has sure it was unloaded but it had a round in the chamber and I shot it off! It put a very large dent in the LORAN Transmiter, but did not awaken my instructor who has sleeping on a cot not more than 6ft. away! ...I thank God, no one was injured and I remember it well, though it was 65 years ago!
Makes me extra carefull when handling weapons.

mb

 

[ironhead7544]

Didn't Cooper have somebody fire a round through one of his Scout rifles at the ceiling of a convention center right in front of him some years back?

Yes, the scout has an extra magazine stored in the butt. That one was still loaded and the guy put a loaded mag in the rifle. I am not sure how he did not see the ammo in the magazine, but it happened.