Q: Any troubles with S&W internal locks?

[MJFlores]

Wow! Positive comments about the IL? Did I wake up in a bizzaro world?

Just kidding! Good for those of you that use it.

HAHAHA....I started thinking the same thing! Did I slip through some kind of time warp into another dimension where the lock is cool?? I have a 4" 629 that was new last year. It's had some work to make her a shooter but I love the final result...even with the lock hole. I've never put the key in it, and doubt I ever will. I dont mind the little hole, and have put hundreds of stout loads through it without any issue at all. Honestly...if Smith went back to making them without the lock, years later those with the lock could very well become collectable. We all want what is harder to obtain and shun what is easy to get...in all things from guns to cars to even women. I just dont think about the lock on that gun anymore.

 

[Florida J Frame]

The IL on my Performance Center 327 prevented the hammer from rising and falling thereafter twice during dry firing. I removed the lock

Was that a 327 TRR8 with the scandium frame?

 

[at_liberty]

HAHAHA....I started thinking the same thing! Did I slip through some kind of time warp into another dimension where the lock is cool?? I have a 4" 629 that was new last year. It's had some work to make her a shooter but I love the final result...even with the lock hole. I've never put the key in it, and doubt I ever will. I dont mind the little hole, and have put hundreds of stout loads through it without any issue at all. Honestly...if Smith went back to making them without the lock, years later those with the lock could very well become collectable. We all want what is harder to obtain and shun what is easy to get...in all things from guns to cars to even women. I just dont think about the lock on that gun anymore.

Lack of concern about a range toy locking up is very different than the concern about reliability in a carry gun.

 

[at_liberty]

<snip>Mine all work fine.

Until they don't. It's simply an unnecessary risk and quite annoying from a political standpoint. Some lock company decided the guns in an acquired subsidiary needed locks, which were never going to be very useful.

 

[Frank V]

If I were going to carry a S&W with a lock a key for it would be on my keychain.

 

[Chuck24]

To beat a horse that if not dead is in mortal danger of expiring

 

[Absalom]

I have about 600 rounds through a 638, 100 rounds through a 438, and 100 rounds through a Governor without any issues. All have the locks, but none have ever even had the keys inserted.

Mike

Ditto. I've had my 360sc with the lock for about 12 years now and simply ignored the lock from day one. Never an issue.

Now a gun that I would have messed around with, like opened the sideplate to remove a lock, knowing my mechanical talent, that would be a gun I wouldn't trust my life to anymore .

 

[rock doc]

To beat a horse that if not dead is in mortal danger of expiring

This thread has gone on a lot longer than I expected.

 

[Frank V]

About six years go I bought a new 60-15, noticed the IL hole in the side and the IL key in the box, read about possible IL lockup, sold the 60-15 online, unfired w/box, papers etc, and bought a used 60-10 because I like to keep it simple.

This is probably the best way to deal with a lock you don't care for.

 

[team sidewinder]

I own or have owned at least a dozen guns with the IL. I don't use the lock but I have never had one that failed. Didn't go bang. I prefer to carry guns w/o it just from stories I have read. But not every gun is is purchased as a CCW. Although it seems many imply they are. I shoot a lot of targets, steel challenge, USPSA and just plinking. These new S&W revolvers are excellent for that. I personally don't like the look but I don't obsess over it. If the gun is well made and suits a need or scratches an itch I am buying it.

Agree. I have the fullest confidence and would bet my life that when I pull the trigger on my 629 IL it will go bang. As you state no need to obsess over it. Never use the lock.

 

[Frank V]

The IL on my gun has locked the gun when I wanted to dry fire it - twice.

Other posters have experienced the same.

It is reasonable to expect the lock would fail again, were it given an opportunity to do so.

I am neither a "whiner," nor am I "unreasonable" to fear inadvertent IL activation on a carry gun that has demonstrated its propensity to lock up without the owner's consent.

Nor are others unreasonable in fearing the same problem and removing the IL before their locks up the gun when it is most needed.

Kind of my thoughts too!

 

[chief38]

You know they still make plenty of these so there is no valid argument that a gun without an I/L can not be made child safe.

 

[muddocktor]

Until this year, I shied away from any S&W product that contained the ILS. But this year I ended up buying a 60-15 for my wife for self defense purposes at the house while I am away at work (I work on drilling rigs in the Gulf of Mexico for 2 weeks at a time). That 60-15 has now had roughly 500 rounds shot through it, roughly half and half between 257 Mag and 38 Special, with no problems whatsoever with the ILS. The only modifications I have done to the pistol are to change the rebound slide spring out from the stock one to a 13 lb Wolff rebound spring and while I was doing that I noticed that the rebound slide had some sharp edges on it so I lightly stoned the sides of the rebound slide with an extremely fine finish stone from my Lansky knife sharpening kit (the white polish stone). That was done only to remove the sharpness off the edges of the rebound slide. Changing the rebound slide spring and cleaning up the rebound slide made a nice improvement in the double action trigger pull smoothness and somewhat lightened it too, but really showed up on the single action trigger pull. That 60-15 now has the best single action trigger pull of any S&W I own and the trigger pull is a tad less than 2 lbs in single action with a crisp break.

As for the MIM parts, I have no problems besides looks on the external ones like trigger and hammer. I think the old forged trigger and hammer look better. But looks are subjective and in no way do the MIM trigger and hammer affect function one bit. Internally, I have no problems at all with MIM.

As to the people who had had problems with the ILS malfunctioning on their revolver; I wonder if it is partly a problem of tolerance stacking against them? Everything is made to a tolerance spec and maybe the ones that have had problems with the ILS have a problem with one part meeting minimum dimension spec while other parts of the ILS (including frame cuts) might be on the other end of the tolerance spec stacking together to create a malfunctioning ILS system.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

You would simply need a lawyer competent to defend against the absurd notion that removing the lock had any bearing on the incident.

Agreed, I don't see how removing a storage device plays any part in a justified shooting, except that if you don't have to spend time unlocking the gun you won't end up the victim.

Can anyone even think of HOW anyone can argue the ILS could come into play in any way, shape, or form in a trial that resulted from a justified shooting??? Lawyers, any comments??? I know we have some.

 

[logicprobe]

HAS ANYONE had a bad experience with the lock?

I've shot and carried semi-autos pretty much exclusively, but a few years ago I bought a brand new 340PD, thinking that a small, 5-shot, extremely light weight .357 magnum might be appropriate in some circumstances. It sat on the shelf until today, when I decided I really should clean it and take it to the range to shoot it. (Clearly I have too many guns if I bought an expensive 340PD and let it sit on the shelf for years without ever firing it, but I digress.)

The first shot I fired went "bang" but the trigger did not reset, and the cylinder would not open. The 340PD has an internal hammer, so nothing to see there. The gun was completely wedged, frozen solid. I didn't know about the internal lock and naturally did not have the key with me. I managed to force the trigger forward and was able to open the cylinder. I loaded it with snap caps and dry fired a bunch of times; everything seemed to be working.

I had absolutely no clue what the problem was. I thought revolvers were supposed to be inherently reliable (a theme in several posts here, in fact). Only after searching forums did I learn of the internal lock. I am convinced that I experienced the dreaded IL failure because nothing else explains what happened. I was shooting factory .38 Special loads (Hornady).

I bought the 340PD as a self-defense carry gun, but after this failure on the first shot ever fired with a new gun, I can't trust it. Next stop will be a gunsmith to inspect it for damage and remove the stupid and dangerous internal lock. Or maybe I'll leave the IL alone, sell it, and stick with Glocks.

Anyone interested in an almost new 340PD? Only fired once.

 

[RILEY31]

I don't have any and never will. I just don't trust them.

 

[KertP]

Dave,

About 18 months ago, I was shooting a friend's Model 638 with an IL. I know he has never used the IL. On the third round of the cylinder, the IL locked up after the shot. Fortunately, I had a key with me as I keep one on my key ring, and was able unlock it and we continued to shoot. The ammunition used was Federal 130 FMJ factory loads, standard pressure loads. Anyway, after this incident, when I got home, I took the IL components out of the 4 revolvers I own with ILs. Last thing I need is for one to lock up when I have a trophy elk in my sights, or a bear charging me, let alone when I need one for personal defense. I've simply decided to never purchase another revolver with an IL in it. I have a 640 and a 642 with no IL.

 

[StrawHat]

...Massad Ayoob, Grant Cunningham, Michael de Bethencourt and David Kenik have told me they've seen failures...

Are these failures common to a specific model or frame size or is it throughout the spectrum of S&W revolvers?

Kevin

 

[OLDSTER]

Only IL I have is my 642. Don't give it a thought, never use it, and not an issue of any kind in approx. 1000 rounds

 

[silentflyer]

No not once.