41mag vs 44mag

[Jellybean]

The .41s I carried were all revolvers and the ammo was STHP's at first, then lead handloads.

But I did qualify with my .41 mag Desert Eagle after I had a holster and mag pouch made for it, and I used full power handloads. The targets were stapled on old conveyor belting and there were paper plate sized holes shot through it at every shooting station. The muzzle blast was awesome, to everyone but the guy next to me, and on the fifth shot it ripped my target loose and blew it through the hole in the belting. I replaced the target and finished with a perfect score.

 

[icicle]

.41 v .44

I see the last post was over a year ago, but wanted to add another tidbit. My dad sold sporting goods on the side (including FFL) when he lived and worked in Yakutat Alaska in the early 70s. I would visit and we'd hunt and fish and target shoot. It was the era of Model 29s not being available, but I was persistent and willing to wait to acquire one. I told him what I REALLY wanted was a matched pair of 8 and-three-eights in nickel. It was not a really serious search for a while, then one one visit when I broached the subject again, he said "Here's what you want," as he whipped open the full color brochure of Harry Sannford's AutoMag. Well as a 22 year old I was sold and finally got it a year later (they were slow on delivery as is common knowledge). Well that thing was (still is) GREAT, so I was content. A few years late he and I were shopping in Anchorage and we saw that they had TWO model 58s in PayNSave, which was mostly a drug store, but sold a wide variety of items. So we each took one, and had lots of fun shooting together. I was aware that the ballistics were similar to the model 29, and when people would start up with the comparisons, I'd just change the subject to Automag.
I still love shooting the Model 58 and found when ammo of all sorts was scarce in early 2013, that it always seemed that .41 mag was on the shelf, when nothing else was available. I reminded my buddies that it was because the .44 was more popular. I reload so it didn't really matter, but I keep an eye out for private sales of .41 ammo because I can usually strike a pretty good bargain. I used to also reload .44 for a buddy who had a Ruger, but did not want to reload himself. He would bring over empty brass, I would reload with varying bullets and charges till he got what he liked. I still have and occasionally use the dies he bought, but I don't like doing it at the same time as .41 or .45 Colt because of the similar sizes of the cases and don't want to try jamming a larger one into a smaller die, LOL. The model 58 with one of my favorite loads makes plenty of noise (for scaring bears, not shooting them) has a big ball of fire, and tends to send the lead towards the small black circles on the paper.
Cheers for S&W fans everywhere!

 

[ironhead7544]

Keith, Jordan and Skeeter wanted a new police revolver. .40 cal with a 200 gr SWC at 900 fps. Picture a "pencil" barreled L frame six shot 4 inch that would weigh in about 35 oz or so. A slightly larger M10 or M15. There was no L frame at that time and apparently S&W did not want to tool up to make a new frame. So, they built a .41 Magnum on the N frame with a 4 inch fixed sight and the standard lengths with the adjustable sights. IIRC, the M58 cost about what the M10 did when it first came out.

The police ammo was about 850 fps with a 210 gr SWC in the M58. It leaded badly. The 210 gr SP was a full load and had way too much recoil for the cops. Also, the M58 weighs more than a M10 or M66. It was just not popular with the police.

I have owned numerous M57 in all the colors and lengths. All were excellent performers and I wish I had them back. If you are a handloader, the 6 inch N frame .41 Magnum is about the best balanced and practical S&W out there.

Back in the 70ties, the 41 Magnum M57 was known to hold up to full loads better than the M29. I never had problems using a 220 gr Keith and full loads of 296 or 2400. Mine never loosened up.

Concerning the Dirty Harry movie, I remember seeing an article in one of the gun mags that featured an interview with Milius. Two of the revolvers used were M57 frames with M29 barrels and cylinders. The cylinders were rechambered for the 5-in-one blanks. S&W was not running the M29 at the time the revolvers were requested. There are some promotional pictures with an 8 and 3/8 barrel also.

 

[gaijin]

Interesting viewpoints.
My $.02 ?; whatever you hit with either caliber will never know the difference.
I will comment that a 250 gr. cast .41 is a penetration monster on medium game (hogs).
I hunt with both- and .45 Colt...

 

[SuperMan]

In reality...the .41 Magnum should not even exist. There was already the perfect police round on the market but for some reason no one would recognize it probably because of the name that was attached....the .401 Herter's PowerMag. It would have been the perfect round for the Colt Python and Trooper revolvers of the time and later the L-Frame and GP100...

With the popularity of the .40 S&W and 10mm I am surprised that none of the big handgun manufacturers have figured this out... Think of a Ruger Blackhawk with three cylinders...or a L-frame with one .401 cylinder and one for moon clipped .40/10mm....

That said I love the .41....so no great loss...

Bob

 

[hard nose street cop]

So, i have been doing alot of research on the above 2 cartridges. From what I can find, up to 240gr bullets the 41 mag can do everything the 44mag can and sometimes a little better depending on the powder. The 44 mag has the advantage as far as heavier bullets go - 265gr and up. If what I am reading and finding is true, why isn't the 41 more popular? Seems to be superior to the 44mag in standard weights and lighter weights. Once you get above that the 44 shines but then you could go with the 45colt or 454casull and do the same and better. Seems like the 41mag just came around a little too late. definetly a better round though!

The 41 Remington Magnum is the ONLY magnum designed for the start to be a magnum. The 41 shoots just as flat as the 44 with less recoil and down range that buck or bore wont know which one took him out.

 

[M29since14]

...There was already the perfect police round on the market but for some reason no one would recognize it probably because of the name that was attached....the .401 Herter's PowerMag.

I remember that round too, and every now and then someone here will mention it. I think over the years the Herter organization had so ostracized themselves, to one degree or another, from the rest of the firearms industry that there was zero chance of that round ever appearing in a revolver made by a major manufacturer. If it had, Jacques never would have let us hear the end of it! Of course the catalog did make for entertaining reading.

I thought it amusing that the people I knew were about evenly divided. Half thought Herter an amusing loon, and the other half were great admirers! There was not a lot of in-between. I remember seeing one of the Herter revolvers and wondering how something appearing so ordinary could be the subject of such extraordinary claims!

Those were good days.

 

[M3Stuart]

Nobody yet mentioned the ear-splitting report of the .41 mag. Maybe its just me, but the .41 mag is the most deafening (with both plugs and muffs in/on ears) that I've ever heard. To me it is considerably more painful than the sound from a .44 mag.

IMHO; that's why the .41 mag never 'took off'.

 

[aurora40]

hodgdon reloading manual.

Since the creation of this thread was predicated on data you read from Hodgdon's, it seems relevant to point out that they use a 10 1/8" barrel for the .41 Magnum velocities listed, and an 8 3/8" barrel for the .44 Magnum.

 

[pcblade]

.41 Mag target loads

Just got my new Model 57-6, 6" barrel. Loaded up some 215gr. SWC'S with 8gr. Unique. Never had so much fun. Accuracy is off the charts--almost makes up for any human error! Recoil seems less than my Vaquero .357. A great pleasure to shoot.
That load worked great--any other load suggestions? Mostly target shooting loads. Will deal with game loads later. Thanks!

 

[THREEDFLYER]

.41 Magnum vs. .44 Magnum "REVOLVALATORS"

Yes, a can of worms has been unleashed for sure with this thread......but a good conversation is going on here!

Having several S&W's and a Freedom Arms M97 chambered in the .41 Magnum I am obviously a fan. That said, I have many more S&W's in .44 Magnum and I reload, shoot and hunt with both of these very capable rounds.

Although both of these rounds are completely adequate for everything from target shooting to taking big game, I am partial to the .41 magnum.

Yes it was a hard sell being so closely matched to the .44, but who can deny that the .41 Magnum is just plain sexy!!!!

The only thing that would make it better would be the developement of a .41 "Special"!!!! And why not! We have the .38 Special and the .44 Special right!

Come on S&W.....give us another reason to go out and buy another "REVOLVALATOR"!!

 

[Engineer1911]

A simple question

When was the last time you saw a box of 41 magnum ammo sitting on the shelf in anybody's ammunition department?

I've been shooting handguns since 1972 (Ruger Single Six) and have found 2 pieces of 41 magnum brass in all my years of brass hoarding. I have seen 41 mag brass for sale once at $65 / per 100 pieces. The same advertisement listed 44 mag brass for $50 / per 100 pieces.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Keith, Jordan and Skeeter wanted a new police revolver. .40 cal with a 200 gr SWC at 900 fps. Picture a "pencil" barreled L frame six shot 4 inch that would weigh in about 35 oz or so. A slightly larger M10 or M15. There was no L frame at that time and apparently S&W did not want to tool up to make a new frame. So, they built a .41 Magnum on the N frame with a 4 inch fixed sight and the standard lengths with the adjustable.

Hmmmm.... Wonder what those "boys" would have thought about a $299.99 SW40VE (what we paid 10+ years ago) with 14 in each of the 4 (included with a mail-in coupon!) magazines loaded with Doubletap's 200gr. Hardcast Solid WNFGC @ 1,050fps out of a 4" barrel and an estimated 490 ft./lbs. at the barrel (same as in a GLOCK G23 per Doubletap)?

P.S. And that's at a cost of just a hair over $1.00 per round, BTW!

P.P.S. Who needs a 10mm G40, anyway?

 

[Qc Pistolero]

The fact that this thread still raises interest after 5 years is proof that the initial point was a very good one.
To try to make a simple answer outta good question,I like(maybe should say love)both calibers verrrrrry much.
The only place I tend to disagree with is people talking about recoil. I've never found a big difference in that department between the 2(.41 with 225gr vs .44 with 255 gr both at aprox 1350fps).In my book,the difference amounts to like being bitten by a dog or by a bitch!
Qc

 

[cowboy4evr]

I want to clarify something . The Lyman 410459 bullet mold is NOT the Keith design for the 41 mag . Lyman introduced it , using his name but he had nothing to do with the design of it . He wrote Lyman telling them what he thought about the matter . He then went to H&G , sat down with them and designed HIS bullet for the 41 mag , H&G 258 . That design is still available today . Northern Valley Machine Co in East Grand Forks MN has all the design data for Keith's personally designed bullets , as well as many others . Their molds are top quality , I have 2 .

 

[pcblade]

New to the .41 mag--what's the difference between "Kieth" bullets and other lead bullets?

 

[pcblade]

Spell check

Sorry, meant "Keith" bullets.

 

[cowboy4evr]

pcblade , I will give you the basic differences , as I know them . First off , Elmer Keith wanted all the case capacity to hold as much powder as possible. So his bullets have a much shorter shank (part that goes in the case ) and a much longer nose . His designs has a flat bottom base . He did not use gas checks . He wanted a flat bottom grease groove to hold as much lubricant as possible . He designs have 3 equal size driving bands in diameter and thickness . The meplat , the nose size was usually about 68-69% in size compared to the diameter of the bullet itself .
Elmer Keith did not invent the swc as it had been around over 20 yrs before he designed his first bullet for the 44 spl . After some experimenting and a few changes it became the Ideal 429421 . As I mentioned above , Northern Valley Machine has all the drawings to cut original " Keith " molds using H&G's data, the company Elmer went to . When someone tells you that have a " Keith type " that is a misleading statement . What is a " keith type " ? It's either a " Keith " bullet or it's not . Any swc is not a " Keith " bullet . I cast/shoot the " Keith designed bullet " in 38/357 , 41 mag , 44 mag and 45 Colt . I get everything I'm wanting using his designs. I hope this helps .

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I'll vouch for what Cowboy says;very accurate description historically speaking of what happened as far as Mr keith intended his bullet to be.It saddens me to read about many selfsaying Keith bullets while so few actually are Keith's!A SWC bullet is not per definition a Keith bullet....far from it!
Qc

 

[SuperMan]

...glad to see we are still "discussing" this subject...it will never end.

Started this thread over on the CastBoolit Forums. Has a lot of good links and threads...

.41 Magnum / 41 Special Load Data Center

Keith bullets...have to see if I can find the information again but before he died Keith collaborated with someone to redesign his bullets so they had a larger meplat. The molds are now available through NOE. The weight of the .410 bullets went from 220 to 230 grains. It was a very interesting story.

Some new developments:

.41 Special brass is now available through Starline.

.41 Special ammo is available through several custom loaders like Reed's Ammo. Great ammo especially for short cylinder guns like the Taurus Tracker and FA 97.

41 Special - Reed's Ammunition & Research, LLC


Defensive bullets and ammo using the all copper Barnes HP. Open rapidly and penetrate deep. Available from Barnes, CorBon, Buffalo Bore, Federal and others...

And now Henry has two .41 Carbines, one with a 20" and the other a 16.5" barrel with BigLoop leaver...

Bob