G. Gordon Liddy & the 3 1/2" Model 27

[Absalom]

A completely different historical question about a detail in that book excerpt that was linked in the OP:
I admit to not knowing too much about adjustable-sight K-frames; Liddy talks about his K-38 Combat Masterpiece "the same one I had worn in the army". When and for what purpose did the Army issue the K-38? I was only aware of the Air Force.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

A completely different historical question about a detail in that book excerpt that was linked in the OP:
I admit to not knowing too much about adjustable-sight K-frames; Liddy talks about his K-38 Combat Masterpiece "the same one I had worn in the army". When and for what purpose did the Army issue the K-38? I was only aware of the Air Force.

He was an artillery officer in the Korean War and an M.P. comes to mind, but not sure about that. But maybe he was able to pack the K-38 in that position as artillery officer.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Well, he played a great bad guy in Miami Vice.

 

[petepeterson]

It's a shooter's thread -- let's keep it that way and not get locked for political yap.

In reading the section linked, I was struck by two things:

1) How nice it would be to visit the FBI armorer with my revolver and say "[living legend] sent me; he says do to my gun what you did for his."

2) Wonder what those guys would think of advancements in bullet design yielding service caliber loads from .38 to .45 that are comparably effective defense rounds; would they still lean toward big N-frames and hot .357? (Probably so. )

I imagine that it would be pretty hard to convince them otherwise, considering it had gotten them that far.

 

[19ontheslide]

So, according to these old salty killing machines, a .357 Magnum is a "big bore" but a .38 Special isn't? Color me confused...

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

So, according to these old salty killing machines, a .357 Magnum is a "big bore" but a .38 Special isn't? Color me confused...

In my Book a Big Bore must start with a 4.

 

[K Frame Keith]

Elmer accepted a 6 inch .357 with the big bores, I believe.

 

[SuperMan]

So, according to these old salty killing machines, a .357 Magnum is a "big bore" but a .38 Special isn't? Color me confused...

..velocity.... Back then the .38s of the time were 158 grain RNL bullets that on a good day made 850 fps from a 4" barrel. The .357 Magnum was also a 158 grain lead bullet but was traveling 1300-1400 fps from a 5" barrel and was a semi-wadcutter design...

Liddy's instructors knew what they were talking about through observation and experience....not from some lab...

Bob

 

[19ontheslide]

..velocity.... Back then the .38s of the time were 158 grain RNL bullets that on a good day made 850 fps from a 4" barrel. The .357 Magnum was also a 158 grain lead bullet but was traveling 1300-1400 fps from a 5" barrel and was a semi-wadcutter design...

Liddy's instructors knew what they were talking about through observation and experience....not from some lab...

Bob

-- Yes, I'm well aware that the .357 Magnum cartridge is a higher velocity round than the .38 Special. You can add all the extra velocity you want; it's not going to change a gun's bore diameter. At least it doesn't work that way in the lab. Maybe the rules of physics don't apply out there in the Real World of Observation and Experience...

 

[SuperMan]

I think what the old salts were trying to convey is that the .357 Magnum had all the punch of a big bore...

Bob

 

[ditrina]

Originally Posted by Hapworth
It's a shooter's thread -- let's keep it that way and not get locked for political yap.

MOST excellent advice!!

 

[Nlmadog]

I can only add I listened to G Gordon on the radio . I loved his show. Glad to know he was a S & W 27 guy.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

And when he said he was told to send down to Texas for a holster with nothing protecting the hammer, who didn't instantly think of a classic Threepersons holster reading that? My 27-2 in the O.P. was a miracle to come across here in California, and at a ridiculously low price for a 3 1/2" version, or any barrel length really. I'd love to have one of those nickel Austin PD guns.

 

[Redhawk500]

One of Liddy's radio comments suggested a four inch Model 29 was too big and heavy to carry concealed. Wonder if he carried the 3.5 inch 357 regularly and why the prejudice against the big bore N frames? I flirt with the idea of a four inch N frame .357 Mag. Mostly use the six inch Model 27 or shorter Model 19 or 66.
, for those rare "small bore" moments. He mentions a 1911 .45 ACP to greet unwelcome guests after moving into a "cheap" neighborhood in DC. He shot his 38 SPL so much he wore the skin off his trigger finger and had to cover it with mole skin, if I remember the book correctly.

 

[Dan Christopher]

That 3.5" Model 27 would actually be the same weight, or maybe a smidge heavier than the 4" Model 29...so the prejudice against the 29 on the grounds of it being too heavy doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Muley Gil]

He was an artillery officer in the Korean War and an M.P. comes to mind, but not sure about that. But maybe he was able to pack the K-38 in that position as artillery officer.

Most officers, and some of the senior NCOs, in all of the services, used to be allowed some leeway in what they carried as personal sidearms.

 

[R*E]

Thank you for the link. Imagine the stories the old gunfighters could tell.....

 

[M294Ever]

That 3.5" Model 27 would actually be the same weight, or maybe a smidge heavier than the 4" Model 29...so the prejudice against the 29 on the grounds of it being too heavy doesn't make a lot of sense.

Criminals usually DON'T make a lot of sense.

Yeah....carry a 3.5 inch N frame but a FOUR inch would just be waaaay too heavy.

 

[bronco45]

Reference the five rounds, it was common to fire five round strings when target practice due to the prevailing influence of Bullseye shooting that ruled much of the shooting. Shoot 5 rounds, in a specified length of time at a target at a known distance. Reload with five and fire 5 more on command.

Spent many hours shooting the five round, reload with five and shoot five more for State and FBI instructors on the range. One of those old FBI gunmen who I sat under was Fred Bassett who was a Montana cowboy who was recruited by the FBI in the 60s. He worked out of the Butte office. Assisted local law enforcement in firearms training and was as close to a one man SWAT team.

 

[153]

That 3.5" Model 27 would actually be the same weight, or maybe a smidge heavier than the 4" Model 29...so the prejudice against the 29 on the grounds of it being too heavy doesn't make a lot of sense.

Unless you had experience carrying one and came to that conclusion from personal knowledge.