Question about 'breaking in'semi autos.....

[Buford57]

Whatever the quality reputation of the manufacturer, if you are going to trust your life to it 200-300 rounds is just about enough to a) verify reliable function and b) familiarize yourself with the controls, sights, grip, presentation, trigger reset and reloading procedure.

Personally, I put at least one box of my intended carry ammo through any revolver I carried for duty or defense before dropping it in my holster and 200 rounds of hardball plus at least three full magazines of the intended carry ammo through any semiauto before gambling my opportunity to know my grandkids on it.

I bought a lightly used 28-2 a few years ago. So lightly used there was barely a turn ring. On the second shot of the second cylinder full of magnum ammo the firing pin nose broke off. While a 6" N Frame still makes a fair club, it would not be my first choice in that role.

But you do what you think best.

 

[HCH]

How do you know when a pistol is broken in and when it's not?

 

[18DAI]

I think some here are confusing, or perhaps obfuscating, the difference between a manufacturer dictating a "break in period" and a common sense 100 or 200 round test for function and reliability.

Nowhere in my HK or S&W 3rd gen manuals do I see instructions for a break in period. I simply took the guns out of the box, inspected them, cleaned and lubed them and shot them. No issues.

But then none of those pistols were overhyped, over priced, finicky 1911's..........or Kahrs. Regards 18DAI

 

[Laketime]

I think some here are confusing, or perhaps obfuscating, the difference between a manufacturer dictating a "break in period" and a common sense 100 or 200 round test for function and reliability.

Nowhere in my HK or S&W 3rd gen manuals do I see instructions for a break in period. I simply took the guns out of the box, inspected them, cleaned and lubed them and shot them. No issues.

But then none of those pistols were overhyped, over priced, finicky 1911's..........or Kahrs. Regards 18DAI

All semi automatics shoot smoother after an initial break-in period,that's a fact.loose tolerance pistols ( double action Group ) such as carried by Police are not prone to a mandatory break in period to settle in ,such is the case in tight tolerance match grade 1911's.This has always been common knowledge among the layman,but mysterious folk lore to the novices.None of my S&W series I and II needed a mandatory break in ,but they all settled on a favorite load once broken in.My Wilsons,Ed Brown ,and match grade Kimbers all needed a mandatory break in which brought them to tact driver status.Just to educate you a little on Kimber,since this is the only full production line with tolerance approaching the custom guns,a mandatory break in is part of the process just like Ed Browns.Most kimber's that get sent back ,get shot and returned to the customer.( a reason for instructions ).This is why some folks should stick with Gocks and stay away from match grade pistols.

 

[Doug M.]

Say you've got a police force of 1000 patrol officers you want to arm with the latest and greatest polymer pistol. The manufacturer tells you that each officer must shoot 500 rounds through his gun to break it in thoroughly before he/she can trust it. You thank the manufacturer for his time and give the contract to the guy that says their guns will run out of the box.

Civilian pistols should be procured with the same results in mind.

*
As noted by another responder, "break-in" and function testing are not the same. If you buy a Wilson Combat pistol, they are very clear that the pistol needs to have 300 - 500 rounds run through it right out of the box, and that it is NOT to be stripped, cleaned, etc. before doing so. It is a more tightly fitted, hand built pistol, and they want the parts to wear and mate as fitted. That's a break-in. AFTER that, and if you strip and clean it's optional (a good quality pistol should run a lot dirtier than that if well lubed), THEN one tests for function with intended carry ammo. A typical service pistol, I run a box or so of ball through it just to look for problems without using expensive ammo, then go to duty ammo. And anyone who believes a manufacturer who claims that (which they all more or less do) and doesn't do the testing is a fool. There is in fact a string in another forum (M&Ps, I think) in which a user who caught a lot of guff for failing to test in fact learned he had loaded up and carried a pistol that was not working.

The standard with which I am familiar is a minimum of 500 rounds of duty ammo without a malfunction. A pistol that will not run at least 500 consecutive rounds of duty ammo without a malfunction and no attention other than lube is flawed, and should not be relied upon without gunsmith attention and a subsequent re-test. It is dereliction per se and more than ample basis for pretty brutal discipline for an LE agency to breach that standard. (I am, among other duties, an LE legal advisor.)

Every manufacturer has made some dogs. I know of several agencies that have had to return all of their new pistols for such reasons, from various manufacturers. (Glocks in .40 are a real leader in this sad category. If I were to carry a .40, I have little doubt it would be an M&P. I would not have any SIG, period; their terrible QC is well known in LE.) As for 3rd Generation S&Ws, not all of them were great. We were issued 1076s, and then 4566s, and I saw more than a few take a dump right out of the box. I don't know that I ever saw an in-service session where at least one of them did not have a breakage that required replacement.

 

[Barrie]

I for one do not like the Glock product lines at all. I also have NO respect for them when they bribe Police Depts to buy them with kickbacks as well. I have too much respect for our men and women in uniform then to send them out on the streets with a second class product such as they make. Give them either a Smith or a good quality C--t handgun which will be there for them in a emergency if needed. Even a good Beretta 92FS is a great carry piece especially when it is tricked up with a custom spring and rod,trigger and hammer set.

 

[GB]

My new M&P 40 VTAC did not "Run" out of the box. I bought it as a self defense piece. so I went to the range and shot it (after an initial wipedown ) Had Two failure to feed in the first mag and 3 in the second. Shot my hand loads without a hitch but didn't care for either of the two brands of factory ammo, I took along. Took it home and recleaned and relubed then went back to the range a couple of days latter. Shot fine that trip except it still doesn't like Hornaday 155 grain hollowpoints. (Neither do I as they don't shoot to point of aim in any of the three S&W 40s that I own, so I won't get any more of them.) I still don't have enough rounds through it the be confident in it for CCW but it hasn't missed a lick for a while and will soon be worked into the rotation. So, I believe in breaking in a new unit. If it is just a range/target/plinking gun and it doesn't run right, it ain't the end of the world. But as a self-defense unit, I want it to be as dependable as any mechanical object can be. GB

 

[unclebob]

How do you know when a pistol is broken in and when it's not?

Exactly!!
My opinion of break in period is just what you need to familiarize yourself with controls and to adjust sighting pattern. I have all the faith in the world in my model 59 and 36 they have never failed to go bang each and every time the hammer fell with any type of ammo. How do these manufacturers put a number for so called break in, why should they have to make the buyer do their testing just to save money. IMO a the best warranty is the one I will never use. Your product is nothing more than a tool, if it's not proven then recall it when issues arise.

 

[DanP7]

I for one do not like the Glock product lines at all. I also have NO respect for them when they bribe Police Depts to buy them with kickbacks as well. I have too respect for our men and women in uniform then to send them out on the streets with a second class product such as they make. Give them either a Smith or a good quality C--t handgun which will be there for them in a emergency if needed. Even a good Beretta 92FS is a great carry piece especially when it is tricked up with a custom spring and rod,trigger and hammer set.

Wow.

So much hatred. Why do you hate the free market?

I'm glad glock made a relaible gun that departments with small budgets could afford. I'm also glad they sell individually to cops at a steep discount. That's very charitable of Glock, and I respect them quite a bit for that. From a business standpoint, I also respect their determination and competitiveness. If you don't, maybe capitalism isn't for you. HK does just fine as a client of multiple socialistic democracies of Western Europe, but Glock came here to participate in the free market. Why not? They had the better gun at the end of the day. s&W got their butts kicked in this market because police departments realized they didn't need to spend a ton of money on flakey pistols. Look at the good news.....competition caused s&w to get their act together! (Pesky free market thing again)

They are a reliable, proven handgun with an outstanding record and a ton of affordable and high quality replacement parts accessories on the market. They are easy to learn to shoot and maintain, yet even experts prefer them along with beginners.

What does a Canadian, who cannot even carry a handgun, pretend to know about what works and what doesn't? The fact that you are suggesting that departments deploy handguns to officers with lightened action and ignition springs shows how much you actually know about deploying a handgun platform beyond your own needs.

If you don't like Glock, that's fine. No need for the hyperbole. Glocks have saved a lot of cop lives over the past 30 years. I like "nicer" pistols too, but if your going to pin a badge on me, give me a Glock.


Anyways....we are here to talk about guns we like. Specifically, the smith semi autos. So let's get back to that and not whine about how glocks feel funny in our hands, or where Gaston Glock touched me, or we don't trust striker ignition or whatever. Plenty of other forums for that noise on the Internet if that's what you want.


>muh handfeels

 

[rwsmith]

My 3rd gen......

I think the "break in period" for guns was coined by Kimber to excuse their lack of QA/QC and shoddy workmanship.

The break in period for a 3rd gen S&W ends when you remove it from the box. Regards 18DAI

My 3rd gen was used when I got it but I'm amazed at the variety of ammo it will eat without a hitch.

Now the Kel Tec P 11 won't fire any of my SWC rounds. It seems pretty reliable with defense type ammo though. I may play with the COAL but then, I may not.

 

[rwsmith]

Hey, that's not a 'bribe'....

I for one do not like the Glock product lines at all. I also have NO respect for them when they bribe Police Depts to buy them with kickbacks as well.

Maybe it used to be called a 'bribe' but now the term is 'business model'.

Apple made an interesting move early on by donating their computers to schools and creating a generation of users.

Wow, I didn't know this was going to produce such a 'lively' discussion.

 

[DanP7]

Maybe it used to be called a 'bribe' but now the term is 'business model'.

Apple made an interesting move early on by donating their computers to schools and creating a generation of users.

Wow, I didn't know this was going to produce such a 'lively' discussion.

That has always been the business model. The whole firearms procurement market (and many others) is as dirty picking horse apples.

Glock didn't invent the model. They just embraced it with gusto.

They are outstanding guns. Business practices aside. (Which has no impact on the civilian market for target shooters, CCW holders, and folks interested in home defense)

 

[ladder13]

Every manufacturer has made some dogs............................................... As for 3rd Generation S&Ws, not all of them were great. We were issued 1076s, and then 4566s, and I saw more than a few take a dump right out of the box. I don't know that I ever saw an in-service session where at least one of them did not have a breakage that required replacement.

^^^^^^^^Real life experiences, not internet hyperbole.

Any PD would be derelect in handing an officer any new gun, and order them on patrol, because someone says "they run right out of the box".

 

[dakota1911]

I like the term familiarization better where you get to know the pistol and how it shoots. The only way to do that is to shoot it.

 

[Stargater]

Back in the 80s, several police officers in Western Kentucky noticed the front sights on their recently-issued S&W 681 revolvers were wearing very rapidly. It turned out that the quality control at S&W had burped and someone wasn't watching the heat treat. The soft barrels were wearing excessively externally and internally. Had their front sights been pinned, the cops most likely would have never known why the accuracy of their guns were failing.

Breaking in autos is even more crucial than revolvers because revolvers with soft steel still shoot reliably, but might result in catastrophic failure if used in the the slide or frame of an auto. What's true of revolvers is especially true of autos -- they're machines, systems of moving parts that interact to produce a desired result. And whenever you have a new auto, I think it would be worth your while to check out its functioning.

Before the Beretta and the S&W 459, it wasn't unusual for autos to fail in the first 200 rounds (and this is still true of all 1911 and older autos). With a number of 2nd and 3rd Gen pistols to my name, I've never actually had a failure. I also had a couple of Berettas and Taurus 9mm pistols and they, too, never burped. The only autos that did give me an intermittent problem were a Ruger Mark II and a copy, the AMT Lightning .22LR. With good ammo, even they are flawless.



The second- and third- generation Smiths are just some of
the ultra-reliable guns that followed the release of the Beretta 92 and
S&W 459 9mm pistols.

.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I think you are clearly onto something here. CZ used to have (not sure about now) a device that would rack the slide of every new pistol hundreds of times at high speed inside a box that sprayed the pistol with lubricating oil while this process was carried out on every pistol. It was the gun-equivalent of running in an engine as some high end car manufacturers do prior to installation in the new car. Running everything at hig speed has to help mate the moving parts. Good idea.

 

[Arik]

It's possible that a Glock representative bribed someone. But he got cought. That's the only difference. To think that no other firearms representative did that is naive. As proven in 2012 by a S&W rep.

Just cause cops complain about doesn't prove a thing. I can find just as many cops who complain about Sig or Beretta or S&W. People have their own preferences and that's the bottom line. A police agency cannot provide each officer with what he likes. Some departments allow for several different handguns but then the officer has to buy it and what happens then? You hear complaining about having to spend money on something that should be issued. It's like in the military, you cannot ask for something. You are given an m4 and you can't go to your commanding officer and say you don't like plastic handguards and ask to be issued something else.

 

[Krell1]

I, for one, don't think break in is required. I purchased a .45 auto built by John Giles back in the day (as they say). He guaranteed the accuracy of every gun he worked on and they were ready to go out of the box. That particular gun is now over 40 years old and has never shot better. Thousands of rounds have gone through it so I guess you could say it is very "broken in".

 

[Doug M.]

^ A hand built & fitted custom like that is not a good comparison piece for the mass built service pistol. Such a firearm can be built to amazing specs, resulting in a very different outcome than the run of the mill firearm.

 

[macdab]

Before the Beretta and the S&W 459, it wasn't unusual for autos to fail in the first 200 rounds (and this is still true of all 1911 and older autos).
.

I too, would like to know where you got this information; "is still true of all 1911's", that is a broad statement. Where are you getting this?

I personally own 10 custom 1911s and only one pistol failed to feed in the first 200 rounds. The rest of the custom 1911s ran without failure and my competition 1911 pistol is at 10,000 rounds without a failure. I have friends that own several custom 1911s and they have the same results. They do feel smoother after a few hundred rounds of use.

As for the op's original question about racking the slide by hand to help with break-in. I think that racking the slide by hand does help, to some degree, with slide to frame break-in. I do agree with others about needing to shoot it for a complete "break in" and reliability test.