Would anyone else like to see the old S&W GEN 3 pistols comeback??

[DanP7]

Pretty much every person who has bought a Lionheart LH9 or LH40 is a lost sale for a new Smith third gen.....

Check the quarterly atf import numbers for Lionheart industries or daewoo and that's your baseline for unit counts.

 

[Silversmok3]

Pretty much every person who has bought a Lionheart LH9 or LH40 is a lost sale for a new Smith third gen.....

Check the quarterly atf import numbers for Lionheart industries or daewoo and that's your baseline for unit counts.

Thanks for making my point for me!

They sell for $615 retail despite being made in a country with signifigantly lower labor costs. No UAW in South Korea,as it were.

Picture how much they'd be if those LH9s were made in the US, as a 3rd gen reissue would have to be.

 

[ladder13]

So there's 106 confirmed orders so far, now who's collecting the money and putting in the order ?

 

[DanP7]

Thanks for making my point for me!

They sell for $615 retail despite being made in a country with signifigantly lower labor costs. No UAW in South Korea,as it were.

Picture how much they'd be if those LH9s were made in the US, as a 3rd gen reissue would have to be.

I'm not really sure I did make your point.

S&W isnt a union shop and is without a doubt more efficient Han the Koreans in their ability to get a product to market, and lacks the middlemen of import. Then you have to consider that this Lionheart outfit has to support all of their operations on their sales of this one gun, while smith would only have to justify additional profit in excess of the opportunity cost of using the same resources to build M&P's, revolvers,mor 1911's. Smith might not be able to sell these for $615, but they could likely become competitive with Contemporary Sig Sauer offerings

It's not really comparing the same thing at all except provide a sample of market demand.

 

[Silversmok3]

I'm not really sure I did make your point.

S&W isnt a union shop and is without a doubt more efficient Han the Koreans in their ability to get a product to market, and lacks the middlemen of import. Then you have to consider that this Lionheart outfit has to support all of their operations on their sales of this one gun, while smith would only have to justify additional profit in excess of the opportunity cost of using the same resources to build M&P's, revolvers,mor 1911's. Smith might not be able to sell these for $615, but they could likely become competitive with Contemporary Sig Sauer offerings

Therein lies the problem.

Sig sells their modern P series pistols for about $800 or so dollars. Those guns also use substantially more low cost parts compared to the older West German models, and it shows.

The only way Smith and Wesson could compete is if they did the same thing- and I'm not sure if that's a gun any of us would want to buy.$450 for a used, forged steel gun....or $850 for a brand new, alloy framed copy with pot metal small parts? Its a no brainer for me, if no one else.

Sig Arms also enjoys some government contracts as well-S&W does not outside of the M&P line.That reduces the capital cost for them immensely.

 

[sarg1c]

I was reading today that Colt is going to make a limited run of 1903 hamerless pocket pistols, now S/W need make a run on the 1903 HE in. 32 S/W long....

 

[ladder13]

I was reading today that Colt is going to make a limited run of 1903 hamerless pocket pistols, now S/W need make a run on the 1903 HE in. 32 S/W long....

I'll take a 3.5 inch Reg Mag, as they were made in the day, and I'll gladly pay 2 G's.

 

[mbliss57]

If S&W makes a metal frame semi auto besides a 1911, I will likely buy one. As it stands right now I have a bunch of 30 year old 3rd Gen all metal guns and some newer Sigs, Berettas, and CZs. If S&W sees a market for what other quality manufacturers see..then I will be happy to increase their profit margin. Other wise the new pistols that I buy are not S&Ws. 1911s excluded. Supply and demand...a free market at work.

 

[Silversmok3]

If S&W makes a metal frame semi auto besides a 1911, I will likely buy one. As it stands right now I have a bunch of 30 year old 3rd Gen all metal guns and some newer Sigs, Berettas, and CZs. If S&W sees a market for what other quality manufacturers see..then I will be happy to increase their profit margin. Other wise the new pistols that I buy are not S&Ws. 1911s excluded. Supply and demand...a free market at work.

While i've instituted a personal "polymer assault(on the eyes) handgun ban" , its unlikely the rest of the gun market as a whole will suddenly value metal frames and high parts quality on their service pistols. Rather the opposite, in fact.

The modern culture says metal guns are range toys and competition stage tools, whilst the defensive arms of choice are polymer frame and striker fired.I dont like it either, but modern economic reality means stippling a plastic Swingline stapler, attaching a magazine and barrel to it, and painting the final product FDE.

 

[DanP7]

Therein lies the problem.

Sig sells their modern P series pistols for about $800 or so dollars. Those guns also use substantially more low cost parts compared to the older West German models, and it shows.

The only way Smith and Wesson could compete is if they did the same thing- and I'm not sure if that's a gun any of us would want to buy.$450 for a used, forged steel gun....or $850 for a brand new, alloy framed copy with pot metal small parts? Its a no brainer for me, if no one else.

Sig Arms also enjoys some government contracts as well-S&W does not outside of the M&P line.That reduces the capital cost for them immensely.

American Sigs show less cost than their sheetmetal and thinly blued german brothers?

Sigs were always price point guns, albeit to the state of german industry in the 1970's. American sigs use a much nicer slide and finishes and it shows. But they are still an anachronism as a 70's design to be cheap, that somehow lingered on. Is sig using cast or MIM? MIM works ok in third gen smiths.


Agree on the contracts being a big part, but if you noted what I said earlier of smith only needing to cover costs on these, it's not an impossible proposition to keep these reasonsably priced.

Can't say much about the value proposition. These guns will appeal to people who like them. Not to people comparing features for the dollar. This is the same as most Sig buyers. They like the guns and they are affordable.


We can go back and forth, but my mind won't be changed that smith could make these and sell them for profitably for a price competitive with Sig. They will not be $2000-$3000 pistols. But they won't be a Sigma either. That being said, there isn't a shortage of used third gens at affordable prices. I would be perfectly happy finding and buying those rather than hope corners are not cut too much on new ones.

 

[DanP7]

While i've instituted a personal "polymer assault(on the eyes) handgun ban" , its unlikely the rest of the gun market as a whole will suddenly value metal frames and high parts quality on their service pistols. Rather the opposite, in fact.

The modern culture says metal guns are range toys and competition stage tools, whilst the defensive arms of choice are polymer frame and striker fired.I dont like it either, but modern economic reality means stippling a plastic Swingline stapler, attaching a magazine and barrel to it, and painting the final product FDE.

You are making me reconsider keeping my gun in my pants!

 

[CCantu357]

I would like to see the 10mms brought back, and by extension the 45. Those big frame, big bore Smith autos were tanks. I would also like the 745 as well. Hammer fired, single action is better than TDA, and both are better than striker-fired.

 

[jrod]

It would be nice to see them bring back the 4506, 4566,5906 again.