S&W 5906 major problem

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

Hi, Gunsmith been working on "Failure to extract" . Changed extractor spring, extractor, recoil spring and now the barrell. Gun now does intermittent shoot 10 and jam . Not able at this stage to send to S&W . Anyone with advice is surely appreciated
thank you, Vom Brunhaus

 

[GaryS]

Find a smith that is experienced with s&W 3rd Gen guns. It sounds like this one is just tossing parts at the problem randomly.

Do the shells just not come out of the barrel as in the extractor is not pulling them or maybe over riding the rim?

 

[armorer951]

What extractor spring was used for the replacement? A "nested" OEM spring set may be necessary. Also, check the barrel chamber for dirt, oxidation, and/or damage. You advised the recoil spring was replaced. What replacement spring was used?

Are you using OEM magazines? Have you checked/cleaned the interior of the magazines, the followers, and replaced the magazine springs?

 

[Mark IV]

I assume the pistol used to extract properly for you? Or did you get it this way? Does it do this with various ammos, and have you tried different brands? I would assume at this pount the pistol has been thoroughly cleaned and lubed. Considering all the parts that have been changed, this is perplexing, I'm gonna be watching this thread closely, I really want to know what's up,myself. Keep us posted, and good luck.

 

[Fastbolt]

"Changing" an extractor and extractor spring in a 3rd gen usually isn't a "drop in" repair.

Extractors commonly have to be filed & fitted, using a factory-supplied Go/No-Go bar gauge.

Determining the proper extractor spring requires the use of a force dial gauge. The factory sells a Wagner gauge, with the appropriate hooked extension, to hold the extractor hook when checking for the recommended tension range at the moment of deflection (extractor movement).

The factory also sells a range of different extractor springs to allow an armorer or smith to find the one that provides the proper tension for any particular pistol.

As armorer951 mentioned, the "repair" part for older 59XX's used to be a nested set, but that was phased out and became "obsolete", replaced with a set of 2 different tension springs for an armorer to try (separately, not together).

Also, the recommended extractor tension range is different for the 59XX double stacks, depending on whether they have the older narrow barrel tab/breech face cut, or the newer wide barrel tab/breech face cut. (The older guns which required the use of the nested spring set might also require a heavier tension than was typically recommended, too, and this had to be carefully approached and tested by the armorer. I've seen a couple older 5903's that required tensions 2-4 lbs heavier than "normal", but which resulted in normal feeding & extracting.)

I'd not replace a barrel for a FTE issue unless there was an actual problem with the barrel, and then only if the usual corrections/replacement of the extractor & extractor spring were unsuccessful at correcting a failure-to-extract condition. (I've dressed a few older barrels that had high/tight spots in the chamber, but that's also something to approach carefully, as even a finishing chamber reamer can ruin a barrel if used improperly.)

Have you tried calling the S&W warranty service center in Texas? I've never used them, being an armorer, but they seem to have earned a good reputation among some posters. Might be quicker than the back-logged factory pistol repair dept.

Just some thoughts.

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

REPLACING THE EXTRACTOR IS A FIT PART. IT REQUIRES THE USE OF A "BAR AND FLAG GAGE SET" TO SET THE TENSION. WERE THEY USED?

AND AS ALWAYS ; WHAT AMMO? LETS LOOK AT THE SIMPLEST ANSWER FIRST

'

 

[flagman1776]

I agree the most likely problem is the extractor / extractor spring fitment...
A barrel swap should rule out rough chamber problems.
For unusual problems I'd ask what loads you are using... examine the primers for cratering. Too light a load / too stiff a recoil spring might prevent full cycling.
It might be limp wrist malfunction... Do you have hand/arm impairment? http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/333488-how-common-limp-wristing.html I know it has been a problem for wounded officers.
Is the firing pin moving freely? A sticking firing pin "might" hang up a case.
Still the most likely solution is the extractor / spring.

 

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

Multiple magazines and multiple ammo varieties have been used still same thing. And yes when I first got the 5906 it worked fine. Thank you all for your help, I will daily follow this thread for help. Has become a stressful problem all around. VB

 

[Fastbolt]

REPLACING THE EXTRACTOR IS A FIT PART. IT REQUIRES THE USE OF A "BAR AND FLAG GAGE SET" TO SET THE TENSION. WERE THEY USED?

AND AS ALWAYS ; WHAT AMMO? LETS LOOK AT THE SIMPLEST ANSWER FIRST

'

Always a good idea to first consider the ammo being used when it comes to failures-to-extract, especially if it isn't an older, well-used model with an aging extractor spring (or visibly damaged extractor).

For the folks not familiar with the gages (or gauges) PPCSHOOTER is talking about ...

The bar gage measures the distance between the edge of the extractor hook and the opposite shoulder of the breech face, setting the correct depth/reach of the hook by letting the armorer know when enough has been filed off the adjustment pad.

The flag gage measures the distance between the rear of the hook and the breech face directly behind it.

There's GO & NO-GO ends to each gage.

The factory dropped having armorers use the "flag" gages several years ago. They said the engineers determined that just using the bar gage properly was sufficient to obtain both of the proper dimensions (since the extractor pivots). They stopped ordering the flag gages made, and stopped selling them to armorers back then. I heard it was coming and ordered the remaining sets I needed to cover all calibers for 3rd gen's my own tool box, though.

 

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

All types of ammo have been used Fastbolt, dont know how/what gauges this gunsmith is using. and yes the casing stays in the chamber, used to stove pipe but not now. What should I inform him to focus on one subject ? Folks are returning to Extractor spring as most likely Thank you VB

 

[Fastbolt]

Is this an older 5906 with the narrow barrel tab/breech face cut? Might it have been well used over time?

If so, and if the FTE's are occurring with a variety of ammunition, it's not unreasonable to suspect the extractor spring may have reached the end of its useful service life. A simple check with a force dial gage can help determine if that's the case ("simple", if you have the dial gage, that is ).

Checking the condition of the extractor hook is also important, as extractors can become "work-hardened" and brittle over time and a lot of use. A couple of the factory guys have previously said that firing 10K rounds, and/or heavy use for 10 or more years (as the extractor springs are under tension if the duty guns are left loaded, in addition to being fired).

If the gun's been in-service long enough for the extractor spring to become worn and tired, and/or the extractor to start to chip, it's also not unwise to consider replacing the ejector, as that's the other half of the hard-working "partnership" in the feeding, extracting & ejection job. Replacing the ejector is a drop-in replacement, presuming the right part is used, and proper fit/function is confirmed, of course.

Additionally, if it's an older 5906 (narrow barrel tab), then the newer ejectors (whether black or stainless) have been revised to help eliminate a potential stress riser which might eventually result in a broken tip.

If you lived in Central CA, I'd offer to inspect and repair your 5906 as a courtesy, as an armorer, because I still have a sufficiently small collection of parts I've bought for myself over the years (looking forward to maintaining my own guns in retirement).

Why not call that authorized warranty center? Better to have it inspected and correctly repaired, instead of remaining frustrated and worried. Why not have it done so you can enjoy many more years of reliable use? Warranty Stations - Smith & Wesson

 

[Fastbolt]

I knew a gunsmith (skilled machinist who worked on a lot of rifles in his own retail storefront gunstore and gunsmithing shop) who felt he needed to attend a factory 3rd gen pistol armorer class so he could better work on them. As I recall, he felt the same way about AR's.

 

[Fastbolt]

BTW, people have been returning to the idea of a weakened (damaged, broken, contaminated/badly fouled, etc) extractor spring because that's one of the 3 most common probable causes of failures-to-extract.

Damaged extractor
Damaged extractor spring
Damaged recoil spring

Replacing a recoil spring is a user/owner level attempt at correction.

If it's an extractor and/or extractor spring, however, then it requires training, experience and the right tools. Not a hobbyist/enthusiast repair, in other words.

 

[XTrooper]

Why not just send it back to the factory and be done with it? No stress involved. My Kentucky State Police 1076 was having extraction problems when I first bought it, I sent it back to Smith, they repaired and returned it a few weeks later with a new extractor and extractor spring, and I never had another problem with it again. I paid around $70 for the repairs and that included shipping.

 

[kbm6893]

"Changing" an extractor and extractor spring in a 3rd gen usually isn't a "drop in" repair.

Extractors commonly have to be filed & fitted, using a factory-supplied Go/No-Go bar gauge.

Determining the proper extractor spring requires the use of a force dial gauge. The factory sells a Wagner gauge, with the appropriate hooked extension, to hold the extractor hook when checking for the recommended tension range at the moment of deflection (extractor movement).

The factory also sells a range of different extractor springs to allow an armorer or smith to find the one that provides the proper tension for any particular pistol.

As armorer951 mentioned, the "repair" part for older 59XX's used to be a nested set, but that was phased out and became "obsolete", replaced with a set of 2 different tension springs for an armorer to try (separately, not together).

Also, the recommended extractor tension range is different for the 59XX double stacks, depending on whether they have the older narrow barrel tab/breech face cut, or the newer wide barrel tab/breech face cut. (The older guns which required the use of the nested spring set might also require a heavier tension than was typically recommended, too, and this had to be carefully approached and tested by the armorer. I've seen a couple older 5903's that required tensions 2-4 lbs heavier than "normal", but which resulted in normal feeding & extracting.)

I'd not replace a barrel for a FTE issue unless there was an actual problem with the barrel, and then only if the usual corrections/replacement of the extractor & extractor spring were unsuccessful at correcting a failure-to-extract condition. (I've dressed a few older barrels that had high/tight spots in the chamber, but that's also something to approach carefully, as even a finishing chamber reamer can ruin a barrel if used improperly.)

Have you tried calling the S&W warranty service center in Texas? I've never used them, being an armorer, but they seem to have earned a good reputation among some posters. Might be quicker than the back-logged factory pistol repair dept.

Just some thoughts.

That's Frank at LSG. Great guy to talk to and deal with. I only deal with him now. Send him an email describing the problem and he will tell you what time to call him to personally describe the problems.

 

[kbm6893]

Here's Franks website. In my experience he's faster than the factory. Also nice to be talking to the actual guy who is going to do the work. He's not gonna leave after market parts in it though. Neither would the factory I am sure.

http://www.lsgmfg.com

 

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

whats the e mail or phone number for this man ?

 

[SMSgt]

Under the horse with the big lasso.

 

[kbm6893]

whats the e mail or phone number for this man ?

[email protected]

Unless he changed it. Phone number is on website under lasso

 

[Yorkie Man]

My friend had a 5906 that was not extracting sometimes and we tried the usual things such as detail cleaning and replacing the spring. None of this worked so he called S&W and was sent a label to send it back. It was returned several weeks later no charge, they replaced the extractor.