Help! Integral Scope Mount Rings?

[jcelect]

Rings

This system was used on the 586 & 686 guns also!

In my experience, the new Millett "Angle Loc" rings WILL NOT fit the S&W dovetail cutouts. I have tried three set of rings with the same results, will not tighten! I believe S&W used only the blued rings on all guns including the SS models!
jcelect

 

[Masterpiece]

I believe S&W used only the blued rings on all guns including the SS models!

Joe,

Concerning the above... I believe you're correct...When they first started shipping them they did come with Blued Rings...At least I know all the N-Frames I ever crossed paths with did!! Although by the time I got around to buying the Pair I had in '91...My 29 came with Blued Rings & the 629 came with Silver/Nickel Rings like I posted a Photo of early in the thread (See Pic Below)!! They came in a Sealed Bag without the Factory Millett Packaging or Instructions...The Instruction Sheet that came with the Revolver was S&W!! I can't speak for any of the 586 & 686 Revolvers though..Given I never had interest...Sorry!!

I'll also add this...When I purchased Two Sets from S&W some years later for a couple of friends that bought 29 & 629 Revolvers not having them...The one's I received from S&W (Both Blue & Nickel Versions) came in the Factory Millett Boxes with "Their" Instruction Sheet...Not the one S&W originally included with the Revolvers!!

Now as to how many of Either Model of the Stainless Revolvers actually shipped with Silver/Nickel Rings...I have no idea whatsoever...All I know is the 629 I purchased "New" did!!

 

[75Vette]

The AL00912 Millets came in the mail today and just as everyone suspected did not fit. With the tightening bolts bottomed out they almost fell off the barrel. As mentioned the ones made for S&W must have been a slightly different design. Bummer. I might try to file these down just for kicks and see what I end up with.

 

[jcelect]

The AL00912 Millets came in the mail today and just as everyone suspected did not fit. With the tightening bolts bottomed out they almost fell off the barrel. As mentioned the ones made for S&W must have been a slightly different design. Bummer. I might try to file these down just for kicks and see what I end up with.

IMHO I don't believe the solution is "filing" down any part! I believe the bottom "'hook" of both sides is already too thin and will not pull the rings down unto the barrel! Please keep us informed if you do try the file? ! ? ! ?
jcelect

 

[Masterpiece]

The AL00912 Millets came in the mail today and just as everyone suspected did not fit. I might try to file these down just for kicks and see what I end up with.

75Vette,

If I could make a suggestion before disaster strikes again...The only way these are going to fit properly is to modify them in the manner (jaymoore) did as noted earlier in the Thread!!

That method being...The Side to Side Width of the Foot (Or Wings as he describes them) at the Base need to be decreased equally on both sides & the like amount removed from the Upright Post just above the Foot as can be seen in His Photo so the Clamps tighten properly!! Any filing or machining to any area other than that is going to cause you problems like you experienced in the past...Especially so to the Clamps themselves or the Pinch Bolt is going to pull though!!

Also...You might try sending him a PM to see if he'll help guide you through the procedure!! Again...Just a suggestion!!

 

[jaymoore]

I may be scarce for a week or so. Maybe I can finally get some time to do some new photos but it's none of my business what I do....

I reckon that if you have a good vise and a steady hand you could file the sides of the post and a bit off the wings. All you really need is a set of cheap calipers. And patience.

 

[75Vette]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. At best this will be nothing more than a jerry rig to kill time. Like the Kernel stated in an earlier post I don't see these mounts holding up to full house magnum loads, especially after being altered to fit. When I do scope one of my 629s there are other more solid mounts.

 

[Masterpiece]

I don't see these mounts holding up to full house magnum loads, especially after being altered to fit.

75Vette,

If your end result turns out nearly as well as jaymoore's did...I believe you're going to be pleasantly surprised how well they'll hold up being they are much more solidly mounted his way in comparison to the "Original Design" Millett provided to S&W...Good Luck!!

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

....All you really need is a set of cheap calipers. .....

jay,

Maybe when you get back you can make a sketch showing where and what metal needs to be removed to make a standard Millett Weaver ring work with S&W's early propitiatory scope mount system. Just a little hand sketch, then take a picture of it.

You know what they say. A picture is worth a thousand words. Having this information would help a lot of owners of these older revolvers. BTW, it was the SCoSW that used the term "barrel broaching" to describe S&W's propitiatory scope mounting system.

 

[jaymoore]

Back from Vicksburg.

Let's see...

Last of the "as packaged" ring sets I have that were sent from S&W.

Not squat for clearance with the variable Weaver!

Rear sight about bottomed out to boot.

Both revolvers (629 above and the 29 in this post) have had both light and heavy loads run through them without dramas.

IIRC, all I did when doing the initial cutting was to tighten the ring on the barrel and measure the side to side slop. Divided that number by two and added about 0.010" for insurance. Width of the cut isn't at all important, just stay off the top of the "feet". You will need to narrow the feet a bit, but not as much as the upper cut.

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

So many rings, posts, and pictures I'm starting to get confused. These are the S&W propitiatory rings, right? You didn't have to modify these, did you?

 

[jaymoore]

So many rings, posts, and pictures I'm starting to get confused. These are the S&W propitiatory rings, right? You didn't have to modify these, did you?

Got three sets from S&W all at the same time, of which this is the last unopened set. The other two sets are on the revolvers above. So, yes, they had to be modded. The rings were procured in the mid-late '90s, so they didn't keep the proper versions on hand all that long!

 

[jcelect]

The difference! ! !

I did it! I did it! I did it! DAH? After buying 3 sets of todays Millet Angle Lock scope rings I finally figured out what the difference is!

The top clamp is from a set of S&W model 29/629/586/686 rings! The bottom is from a set of todays Millet Angle Locks rings!

jaymoore's system of narrowing the scope ring base will work the same as the S&W style clamp. The clamping surface is the same after the clamp is moved inward.
jcelect

 

[Kid44]

There's a reason S&W no longer offers the integral scope mount option.

 

[MattJames]

I need a set of blued rings for my Model 29...

 

[jaymoore]

I did it! I did it! I did it! DAH? After buying 3 sets of todays Millet Angle Lock scope rings I finally figured out what the difference is!

The top clamp is from a set of S&W model 29/629/586/686 rings! The bottom is from a set of todays Millet Angle Locks rings!

Congratulations! And thank you!

First real set of ring bits I've ever seen close up. Might as well do some more "gun nerd" shots of the complete deal.

Any packaging differences or easy way to ID the rings aside from side view?

 

[jaymoore]

There's a reason S&W no longer offers the integral scope mount option.

They do. Just in a more standardized format on PC revolvers. But weirdly only the 686 Competitor has 1913/Pictatinny geometry. The 629s remain the old style Weaver derivative type. Very annoying, that, as many modern "Tactical" rings won't fit.

20 years and still the "too far to the rear" and narrow slot on 629s. Never mind the often awkward spacing of the other two slots!

 

[jcelect]

Congratulations! And thank you!

First real set of ring bits I've ever seen close up. Might as well do some more "gun nerd" shots of the complete deal.

Any packaging differences or easy way to ID the rings aside from side view?

Hey Jaymoore
More pics won't help! The sets are exactly the same EXCEPT for the different clamps! The ring set in my 629 is the only set I have that is in packaging and that is nothing but a heat sealed plastic bag, like your pic above! I used the set from my 29 for the pics as they were on the gun when I bought it!
Did you do the modification of the base on an end mill or by file?
jcelect

 

[jaymoore]

Did you do the modification of the base on an end mill or by file?
jcelect

Small endmill, IIRC. Could have used a narrow side milling cutter, but I recall the rings were held in a vise with minor positioning stops so that it was easy to remove and replace on the Bridgeport knee mill without having to tram in every time. Made doing the two sides and the other ring rather quicker. But what I don't remember was exactly the orientation was of the ring in the vise. May or may not have been the obvious "easy way" as I wanted good repeatability. Been a loooong time ago! Do remember trying various options and that's it.

But I did lots more difficult jobs before having my own machine tools, so I know that the "file and fit" option is viable here. Just slow!

OT, but reminded me of the machinery roadtrip to our current hideout a few years back:

Lost my police escort after moving the Motor Avey drillpress base. Five more trips up and down a four lane road on an "indoor" rental forklift! "Slow" in a different context...

Just for giggles.