EDC Ammo?
- Thread starter Kizer
- Start date
buzzard767
Member
Take a look at the new Lehigh Defense 90g Xtreme Defender. Their previous issue, the Xtreme Penetrator is fantastic in 390 ACP but over penetrates in 9mm. The new XD looks to be a winner. The permanent wound cavity is phenomenal. Underwood buys the bullets from Lehigh and makes their own version although the velocity is within 50 fps (no mention of barrel length).
Cartridge: 9mm Luger+P
Bullet weight (gr): 90
Box qty: 20
Velocity (fps): 1,450
OAL (in): 1.125
Penetration (in): 17.5
Permanent wound cavity (in): 2.50
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClJcJ8LQFbQ[/ame]
Cartridge: 9mm Luger+P
Bullet weight (gr): 90
Box qty: 20
Velocity (fps): 1,450
OAL (in): 1.125
Penetration (in): 17.5
Permanent wound cavity (in): 2.50
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClJcJ8LQFbQ[/ame]
V0OBWxZS16
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2015
- Messages
- 504
- Reaction score
- 310
The reviewer measured the temporary cavity and not the crush cavity. This bullet wastes its' potential creating a larger temporary cavity instead of expanding and increasing the crush cavity. At pistol velocities temporary cavity is generally not a significant wounding factor.
Permanent wound cavity (in): 0.355
buzzard767
Member
Right from the factory, "Permanent wound cavity (in): 2.50"
This design does not require expansion. The original 115g Xtreme Penetrator received bad reviews for overpenetration. The new Xtreme Defender dimensions yield 300 fps faster muzzle velocity and 6" less penetration. The much larger scallops on the XD is pushing a lot of material around and thus the large permanent wound cavity as opposed to 1.15" with the XP.
smokindog
Member
The best ammo is the stuff you use when you hit the target!
buzzard767
Member
Guys, I've been happily using Federal Premium 147g +P HST but the Lehigh is taking 9mm performance to a new level. Word will get out and there will be lots of testing.
Last edited:
buzzard767
Member
From the Lehigh site:
The XD ammunition has an optimized nose flute, total weight, and velocity to achieve a penetration depth range of 18 inches with a permanent wound cavity (PWC) that is just simply enormous; no other expanding hollowpoint comes close to achieving anywhere near this diameter and volume. Not only is the PWC over 100% larger than any other expanding bullet, it is near barrier blind, ignoring wallboard, sheet metal, and automotive glass.
We were able to accomplish this quantum leap in terminal performance at the same time while reducing recoil. The terminal performance achieved is quickly approaching that of 5.56 rifle performance and that is an incredible feat.
The XD ammunition has an optimized nose flute, total weight, and velocity to achieve a penetration depth range of 18 inches with a permanent wound cavity (PWC) that is just simply enormous; no other expanding hollowpoint comes close to achieving anywhere near this diameter and volume. Not only is the PWC over 100% larger than any other expanding bullet, it is near barrier blind, ignoring wallboard, sheet metal, and automotive glass.
We were able to accomplish this quantum leap in terminal performance at the same time while reducing recoil. The terminal performance achieved is quickly approaching that of 5.56 rifle performance and that is an incredible feat.
Temporary wound cavity? Permanent wound cavity? Are we going to stand there and wait for the bad guy to bleed out?
The only way to stop the threat immediately is a head shot or CNS. Assuming proper shot placement, penetration AND expansion will greatly increase your odds. One without the other is a waste of time.
The only way to stop the threat immediately is a head shot or CNS. Assuming proper shot placement, penetration AND expansion will greatly increase your odds. One without the other is a waste of time.
buzzard767
Member
We're gun guys here. If you're thinking about a cranial shot on some pin head bad guy under pressure remember that the LEOs miss three out of four body shots.
And those wound channels translate into both energy expended inside the body and a potential increase in the rate of bleed loss.
And those wound channels translate into both energy expended inside the body and a potential increase in the rate of bleed loss.
People have managed to survive several minutes or more after being shot in critical areas such as the heart.
If you have to shoot someone to protect yourself, you don't necessarily want them to die. You want them to STOP! To do this you must hit the CNS. Waiting for someone to break off their attack on you while they bleed out is foolish.
buzzard767
Member
Good luck on that head shot dude. Odds might be better kicking them in the balls.
V0OBWxZS16
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2015
- Messages
- 504
- Reaction score
- 310
I presumed you pulled the permanent cavity figure from the video review. I gave Lehigh too much credit. My mistake.
It will die off and then come back later like a bad penny.
"We did test the Devel--nothing special or magical." Dr. Roberts
The claim that reduced recoil 9mm can approach 5.56mm performance is laughable. I do not recommend taking them seriously.
Ordnance gelatin test assessment for rifle and pistol calibers by Dr. Roberts
Please note that for pistols only the penetration depth in gel is recorded, for rifles only the penetration depth and temporary cavity, and a permanent cavity is not measured in both cases.
I presume that the four flutes create an X-shaped temporary cavity. The proper method for measuring recovered diameter is to measure the largest and smallest diameters and average them. If we pretend that the flutes really do create significant permanent cavities the effective recovered diameter is more than an inch smaller than advertised and only exists for a portion of the penetration.
buzzard767
Member
I just ordered Underwood Extreme Penetration in 380 acp, 38 Spl, and 9mm. At these prices the only testing I do will come after it is needed. I own a good deal of practice ammo. Not much SD ammo in the lower calibers.
Tonight it occurred to me that if I am going to carry every day and am spending a small fortune on handguns it would be fool hearty to carry range ammo or the least expensive box on the shelf.
That cheap/lazy voice in my head has frequently whispered to me that range ammo or economy ammo will be adequate for what I am liable to run into and why spend big bucks on the hyped up premium ammo. Thank goodness common sense creeks in once in awhile.
Joe
Call and exchange the 9mm Xtreme Penetration order for the new 9mm Xtreme Defender. The Defender is new and has MUCH better performance than the XP.
buzzard767
Member
I suspect most peeps, understandably, will carry JHPs until, and if, the Lehigh claims become universally accepted. So far, testing has yielded excellent results. The ONLY negative comments come from Internet forums from those with zero first hand experience.
V0OBWxZS16
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2015
- Messages
- 504
- Reaction score
- 310
Please point me to the testing that shows excellent results.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8,018
- Reaction score
- 7,100
Winchester RA9B, RA9T, or RA9TA.
buzzard767
Member
The XD is so new there has only been one test so far that I know of and it's referenced in this thread - here
Last edited:
V0OBWxZS16
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2015
- Messages
- 504
- Reaction score
- 310
That video does not show excellent results.
I kind of asked a trick question. No gel test will show excellent results with this design unless the measurement procedures are changed. Unless independent research shows that the flutes really do significantly increase the crush cavity the procedures shouldn't be changed. Given the quote from Dr. Roberts above about the Devel I doubt that will happen.
If your incapable of reading my post (#49) AND comprehending it, I'm wasting my time.
Do what you feel is best. It's your hide.
