Wadcutters for self defense

ColbyBruce said:
I had to shoot a raccoon a few years ago with a .32 S&W Long. Six times. The first four shots were LRN and did little more than anger this monster. The next two rounds were WC and they had a profound effect. This animal was huge, about the size of a first grade child. I am not positive it was rabid, but if not, it should of had the sense to wipe the foam off his mouth and stand up straight.
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Bruce-

Please add details. Where did the bullets impact the animal? What was the effect of the WC loads and who made them? I've heard that if one must shoot a .32 Long, the Euro makers load the target ammo hotter than do US firms.
 
Just make sure you load it with something you can HIT the target with,
great ballistics in a projectile are not worth a damn if you miss.

I have some old FBI loads and NO WAY would I load my snubby with them for SD. If not standing next to the target, most shooters wouldn't hit it.
 
Texas Star said:
...We need more men with actual experience of this ammo on live animals or men to post...
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Texas Star,

Talk to a coroner. As a former LEO, I met several and the two that carried 38 Specials, had them loaded with WC bullets. Not sure if factory or handloads but it is hard to mistake the profile. When I carried a 38, it was loaded with hard cast DEWC and enough powder to make 850 fps. They worked then, I would imagine they would still work.

Kevin
 
Texas Star said:
Bruce- Please add details. Where did the bullets impact the animal? What was the effect of the WC loads and who made them? I've heard that if one must shoot a .32 Long, the Euro makers load the target ammo hotter than do US firms.
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s_w30-1c.jpg


Shortly after I got this S&W 30-1 in 2008 a retired LEO on my mail route gave me a Charles Chips tin full of loose ammo. It had several hundred .32 cartridges in it; .32 Colt, .32 S&W and Long, .32/20, .32 a.c.p, and even some .32 WSL and .32 Remington rifle ammo. Most of the LRN ammo was Canadian, I do not recall the brand. IIRC the WC was R-P. Obviously he had gathered this up early in his career.

The LRN went down through the left side of the raccoon's body at an angle, shot from about the length of my F-I-L's Isuzu Trooper. The two WC rounds were fired CM from half that length, as I thought I missed and got closer. One or two of the LRN bullets did exit the body. I moved the Trooper, poured gasoline all over the raccoon, threw a pile of sticks on it, and burned it. I raked up the remains and double bagged it and threw it away at the dump.

That was a large raccoon. It tripped the motion detector lights on the house constantly. He knocked over and broke a portable gas grill we had on the porch. Anytime we were outside with food he would appear and try to intimidate someone to get food thrown at him. He is not missed.
 
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chief38 said:
I am sure there are lots of dead people from .22's as well - but still not a first choice SD round.
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Not long ago a bunch of Indian Country agents and I were sitting around talking about the shootings we had worked. It was probably a couple hundred between us. The most common murder gun on any of the reservations I've worked has always been the humble .22 repeating rifle - usually the ubiquitous Marlin Model 60, though the Ruger 10/22 has a strong following, too. I realized every single shooting with a .22 repeating rifle was a fatality. (We work non-fatal shootings, too - so its not a case of a biased sample.) The closest I had to a non-fatal was a guy who shot up the front window of a bar and hit a shot glass just as a lucky fellow was lifting it to his lips. The glass cut his lip but the bullet missed so I figure it didn't count.

Every other one resulted in a zipped-up trip for somebody to the medical examiner's office.

The other guys reported similar experiences, but they may have had a survivor here or there.

Now, I don't advocate walking around with a .22 rifle for self-defense but when it comes to laying folks low it will sure get the job done.

I think the choice of ammo is the least important factor in a self defense plan. Have a gun, know how to shoot it, know when to shoot it, and try to keep a cool head - all far more important than ammo choice. If somebody shoots .38 wadcutters better than anything else, its not a bad choice.
 
In the tests ive seen of the FBI load, when it fails to expand, it usually looks like a wadcutter.

I'm ok with that.

Better then the FMJ-like profile some JHP's have when they fail, IMHO.
 
I see this subject come up from time to time and one of the standard responces is, "target wadcutters are to slow"

So let me ask this. At what speed does a wadcutter cross the threshold and go from being a target bullet to a self defense bullet?
 
dsink said:
I see this subject come up from time to time and one of the standard responces is, "target wadcutters are to slow"

So let me ask this. At what speed does a wadcutter cross the threshold and go from being a target bullet to a self defense bullet?
Click to expand...

Good question, but my answer is, "Never!" Because if I ever have to explain it to a jury, I can declare, "I just had TARGET loads in the gun, not those nasty, man-killer bullets."
 
Gamecock;

He may of bought a box of wadcutters and is testing them in his snub nose.

Either trying to get the bullet to penetrate two water jugs or............

Watching it go through 6 or seven water jugs !!
 
dsink said:
I see this subject come up from time to time and one of the standard responces is, "target wadcutters are to slow"

So let me ask this. At what speed does a wadcutter cross the threshold and go from being a target bullet to a self defense bullet?
Click to expand...
I guess one could argue the .41rf at 450fps was 'fast enough' since somebody somewhere was killed by it. The problem is relying on a soft lead Wadcutter at 600fps to 'stop' a BG.
Stops usually require major blood loss or tissue damage, breaking a major bone like a femur, pelvis, breastbone...or surrender. A target WC might do that, but there's plenty of examples where similar ballistics fail to do that, especially against the skull. Given my choices, I'd want more.
 
"Because they are making a fortune selling jacketed, hollow point ammo for handguns."...........

+1;

In the old days they pushed lead, it worked and was cheap to make.

Today the JHP is the "IN" bullet................

However I think the company's are breaking even with a box of 148 hbwc Target bullets selling at $28.
 
At one times years ago Corbon loaded the soft Rem. 158 gr. LSWCHP in a +p load that cranked a true 1K fps in a snubby. I believe they used gas checks as well. I asked Mike, their sales mgr., why they dropped it & if I recall he said they had a Helluva time in loading the extremely soft bullets w/o damaging them. Of course, the general move away from .38 sales to semi-auto loads probably didn't help.

FWIW, Undwerwood uses the same commercial lead bullet that Buffalo Bore uses for their loads as cast by Rim Rock:

g/ch .38/.357 mag 158 gr. SWC-HP per 100/ in a plastic ammo box - Gas Checked Cast Lead Bullets - Premium Bullets
 
DoubleTap's hardcast 148g wadcutter claims 740fps and 180 ft/lbs of muzzle energy out of a 2 inch barrel. Not sure about the claims, but my 642 sure likes 'em. I hope I never find out how they work when used in a self defense situation.
 
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