S&W Bodyguard 380 Condition 0; you?

[RichLucky]

In reference to Jeff Cooper's conditions, specifically to the 1911 community, condition 1: cocked and locked: it seems an optimum balance of readiness and safety (chambered, cocked, safety on). For me, it makes sense because of the big safety that is easy enough to toggle on the draw.

For my BG, I'm thinking its reason for existence concealed is for very close range, reactive defense (hopefully outside of 15 feet, but not more than that) a short fire-fight, and probably in low-light conditions.

IMHO, the BG 380 safety seems to have too low a profile to fumble with under the influence of adrenaline. So with all that said, my thinking is: Condition 0: chambered, cocked (slide forward after chambering) safety off, inside the front pocket in a pocket holster (Uncle Mike/ Desantis Super Fly equivalent--covering the trigger). to achieve the above.

So for those of you that own and carry concealed the BG 380:

1. How do you carry: (condition 0 or 1 [safety on]) or other?
2. Your thoughts on the matter?
3. Any problems or heard of any carrying condition 0?

Thanks!

Rich

 

[rjm6120]

I carry mine in my right rear pocket with an Uncle Goerge's wallet holster, that covers the trigger guard area. Round in the chamber with the safety off. The trigger pull on my BG is heavy enough that I feel having the safety engaged is not necessary. Disengaging it is a tad cumbersome for me and my large hands, anyway.

 

[RichLucky]

Cumbersome Safety

I carry mine in my right rear pocket with an Uncle Goerge's wallet holster, that covers the trigger guard area. Round in the chamber with the safety off. The trigger pull on my BG is heavy enough that I feel having the safety engaged is not necessary. Disengaging it is a tad cumbersome for me and my large hands, anyway.

Hi RJM!

Thank you for the reply!

I agree on both the long, heavy trigger pull the cumbersome safety

I think trying to fumble with this safety would steal valuable time, and I don't even have "large" hands.

And I was really curious about the comfort level of other folks carrying concealed with the striker-fire BG 380 with Saftey ON or OFF.

Also just curious: Does the weapon and holster get in the way when you're sitting down to eat, or driving?

Thank you!

Rich

 

[Old cop]

My no laser model is carried w/a round chambered, safety off, in a pocket holster. Not sure which condition this is.

 

[jackvs1]

in pocket safety on, no holster.

 

[rjm6120]

....Also just curious: Does the weapon and holster get in the way when you're sitting down to eat, or driving?
....

If you're asking about the rear pocket holster/gun combo, I hardly know it's there. I have worn this gun daily this way for around a year now, sometimes for 12 hours, and I've never felt discomfort. If there is a down side to this, it's not easily accessible when driving, but I can get to it if necessary.

 

[RichLucky]

Rear Pocket Carry in Car

If you're asking about the rear pocket holster/gun combo, I hardly know it's there. I have worn this gun daily this way for around a year now, sometimes for 12 hours, and I've never felt discomfort. If there is a down side to this, it's not easily accessible when driving, but I can get to it if necessary.

Hi again, RJM!

And thank you for your reply!

Good to know!

thanks!

Rich

 

[RichLucky]

Jeff Cooper Condition Codes 0 (zero) through 4

My no laser model is carried w/a round chambered, safety off, in a pocket holster. Not sure which condition this is.

Hi Again, Old Cop!

And thank you for your reply!

I'm borrowing from what I understand of Jeff Cooper's codes related to the 1911:

So I'm thinking you're carrying condition zero, so all you have to do is draw and shoot (not having to rack the slide, or dis-engage safety).

From Wikipedia link and except below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper


"...The Modern Technique of the Pistol...

...Cooper favored the Colt M1911 pistol and its variants. There are several conditions of readiness in which such a weapon can be carried. Cooper promulgated most of the following terms:

Condition 4: Chamber empty, empty magazine, hammer down.
Condition 3: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 2: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 1: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition 0: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.
The Colonel carried in Condition 1 "Cocked and Locked", and taught the same to others.

Condition 1 is widely referred to as "cocked and locked" and Condition 3 is known as "Israeli carry", where the slide is racked to bring the firearm into condition 0 "Ready to fire"..."

Take Care!

Rich

 

[PirateJim]

I voted condition 0 in holster with trigger covered.

Okay, disclaimer: I don't own a Bodyguard, but I do own a Shield with safety and a Ruger LCP. When carrying the Shield (pocket, IWB, OWB or shoulder holster) I flip the safety off once in the holster. The little LCP doesn't have a safety, but has a pocket holster that covers the trigger too.

 

[RichLucky]

All Good!

I voted condition 0 in holster with trigger covered.

Okay, disclaimer: I don't own a Bodyguard, but I do own a Shield with safety and a Ruger LCP. When carrying the Shield (pocket, IWB, OWB or shoulder holster) I flip the safety off once in the holster. The little LCP doesn't have a safety, but has a pocket holster that covers the trigger too.

Hi Jim!

And thank you for your reply and your vote!

For all intents and purposes, the question lends itself to folks with compact weapons, and especially the comfort level of pocket carry.

I chose the BG 380, as I just got one and plan to pocket carry condition 0, and I think that will be my most often carry: so I was curious what other folks were doing; and that's why I chose weapon in the poll .

So, your input is definitely welcome!

I don't own a shield, but also considering a compact 9mm. Both the Shield and Ruger LCPs are on the list, but kind of leaning towards the Sig P938 if I were to get one.

Cheers!

Rich

 

[justicetyme]

A few points you may want to consider:

First, the S&W Bodyguard .380 is NOT a striker fired pistol.
It is a conventional double action only pistol. That is why second (third, fourth, etc.) strike capability is available to the user.

Secondly, a Bodyguard .380 CANNOT be carried in condition 0 as there is no way to "cock" the hammer. Its very design prohibits that from happening.

Carrying the Bodyguard .380 with a chambered round and the safety off is analogous to so carrying any conventional DA revolver in a similar fashion.

Why a safety was even put on this pistol is a mystery to me. I suspect that it had something to do with making it meet certain state's specifications.

James

 

[Old cop]

RichLucky: Thanks for the explanation. When I carry my M&P .380 I always carry a spare mag somewhere. Once, long ago my duty weapon ran dry during a fight and I never quite forgot how it felt to be out of ammo.

 

[RV4driver]

Yep, not a striker fired weapon. It is a teeny-tiny hammer, but it does have a hammer and firing pin. If all goes well tomorrow when I shoot it for the first time since getting it back for the second time, I will carry it in a Hunter holster, safety off, round chambered.

 

[Wee Hooker]

To each their own. I carry mine confidently in a pocket holster that covers the trigger. Round in the pipe. Safety on. I've been shooting semi auto's (and particularly 1911's) long enough where flipping the safety off as it's presented is somewhat second nature. That said, the safety on my M&P was a bit stiff at first (as was the trigger). It took some working to get it to free up to where I like it.

 

[RAM1299]

Condition 0 in a pocket holster or using a clip draw. The BG380 is a true DAO with no way to cock the hammer and nothing pre-tensioned. I can't imagine any situation that could accidentally get into the trigger guard and pull a nearly 10 lb. trigger. I don't mind the safety being there, just in case I choose to use it sometime.

 

[moose1953us]

i carry my .380 in my back pocket, extra round in the chamber, safety on, in an Uncle George's pocket holster that covers the trigger. it's totally comfortable, prints like a wallet, and with a little practice provides a fast draw.

 

[jimmib]

I carry mine IWB with safety off except when the great grandkids are around ....then the saftey goes on....I have put enough rounds through mine to feel comfortable carrying when I am in low stress areas....then my Shield 40 goes IWB for higher risk areas....you will hear a lot of people say the 380 isn't big enough for carry....I say carry what you are comfortable with.....to each their own

 

[RichLucky]

Condition 1 no holster

in pocket safety on, no holster.

Hi Jack!

Thank you for your input!

Although one of the few responders that carry that way, I can appreciate it's form.

the BG 380 fits so nice in the pocket without a holster!

Unfortunately, I found the "printing" or outline of it too revealing that way.

I got a Blackhawk #3 pocket holster, which I really liked, but still a lot of outline, plus on the draw, the holster comes up with the weapon.

So I got DeSantis Superfly, which wonderfully creates an I-phone or larger PDA square outline in the pocket, and stays in the pocket with the draw. Although I don't like the mental step of having to slide my fingers between the outer cover and inner holster.

However, I gotta say, neither give the secure, rapid, feel of just having the weapon without a holster in the pocket. And the safety on the BG 380 seems robust enough not to move about.

thank you, again!

Rich

 

[RichLucky]

Thanks for Correction! doh!

A few points you may want to consider:

First, the S&W Bodyguard .380 is NOT a striker fired pistol....

Secondly, a Bodyguard .380 CANNOT be carried in condition 0 as there is no way to "cock" the hammer...

Carrying the Bodyguard .380 with a chambered round and the safety off is analogous to so carrying any conventional DA revolver in a similar fashion.

Why a safety was even put on this pistol is a mystery to me. I suspect that it had something to do with making it meet certain state's specifications.

James

Hi James!

Thank you for your reply!

RE: Striker fired

And thank you for your correction. Indeed, the BG 380 is not striker fired. My old brain let that idea slap onto the BG 380 after seeing so many striker-fired weapons during my research of this and compact 9mms. Not even cleaning up around the hammer after field stripping awakened my brain to this fact. Doh!

So thanks for that.

RE: Conditions

Yeah it's a bit of an admittedly non-seamless translation borrowed from Jeff Cooper's conditions according to Wikepedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper

Extracts below:

Cooper favored the Colt M1911 pistol and its variants. There are several conditions of readiness in which such a weapon can be carried. Cooper promulgated most of the following terms:

Condition 4: Chamber empty, empty magazine, hammer down.
Condition 3: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 2: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 1: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition 0: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.
The Colonel carried in Condition 1 "Cocked and Locked", and taught the same to others.

Condition 1 is widely referred to as "cocked and locked" and Condition 3 is known as "Israeli carry", where the slide is racked to bring the firearm into condition 0 "Ready to fire".

This firearm condition system can also be used to refer to other firearm actions, particularly when illustrating the differences between carry modes considered to be safe for various actions. For example, a double-action/single-action firearm is designed to be carried in Condition 2, which is not safe for 1911s[citation needed] without a firing-pin safety catch.

I haven't seen any similar condition codes for DAO semi-automatics, if you have, please be so kind to share.

My intent of translated condition zero, is that it is ready to fire: pull the trigger, and off she goes.

I like you analogy to a revolver, though.

I was really most curious who was carrying with or without a holster, and with or without the safety on. Seems in pocket, holstered, chambered, safety off is the majority answer.

Also, agree with your comments about the safety.

James, thanks for real good input!

Cheers!

Rich

 

[RichLucky]

Out of Ammo

RichLucky: Thanks for the explanation. When I carry my M&P .380 I always carry a spare mag somewhere. Once, long ago my duty weapon ran dry during a fight and I never quite forgot how it felt to be out of ammo.

Hi Again, Old Cop!

Thank you for sharing about your experience of running out of ammo. I see ads for pocket magazine holders, and I think "c'mon...like six isn't enough..."

But there you go.

And I can only imagine that once is too many times to have that happen. I can't imagine what a sinking feeling that must have been.

RE: Codes:

Yeah, it is non-seamlessly borrowed from the 1911 posturing, although, as one reader smartly pointed out to me, the double action only nature of the BG 380 makes it behave more like a revolver (after the slide is racked and a round chambered.) which I kind of liked, and then one could argue that is more like condition 2.

Perhaps some clever person will develop and publish an exact condition code for DA semi-automatic pistols.

I assumed most would be carrying with a round chambered, so the real intent of my poll was to see who was carrying with the safety on/off and with or without holstering.

Most readers responded: round chambered, holstered, safety off.

Thank you again for your shared experience!

Rich