When the other guy carries!!!

[jtpur]

Today several of my co-workers and I went to an ethnic restaurant in a location of town know for, well let' say diversity and high incidence of the occasional violent crime. The establishment is in a major urban area, and is a delight to eat in, and is clean, friendly and has terrific food. Regardless of ethnic background everyone there is welcome and everyone well treated.

Being the cop I was, I sat with my back to the wall, facing the entrance and "cash register" and I was armed because I am always armed not because of any fear of this particular establishment, clients or the surrounding neighborhood. All areas of this megalopolis can be dangerous.

We ate a great meal and as we were finishing, an SUV pulled into the parking lot, parked normally. Two young men of a certain ethnic background exited. They were dressed for the climate, I noted the younger one pull up his T-shirt and conceal what looked like a .45 into his waist band above his crotch. (not my thing). I immediately placed my hand in my pocket took the handle of my own gun and was ready. The young men walked in, walked to the counter and I immediately took my hand off my gun and out of my pocket. He was concealing and I merely thought "perhaps he has a concealed permit." after all I do and just because he is a minority, what is to prevent him from lawfully carrying.

Because I saw his gun, and saw him conceal it, I perked up just in case. I think that is wise., he would probably do the same if he saw me do likewise. I wondered if he would have been confronted by a cop had the cop seen what I what I saw. I wondered if I would have confronted him and then I came to the conclusion that 20 years ago when concealed carry was mostly illegal, I would have confronted him, but today since it is legal to some extent in all States I thought, there is no cause for concern.

Contrary to what some politicians might tell you, there was no over-reaction, no crazed armed citizen playing cops and robbers taking the law into his own hands. This to me was just a minority kid doing what I do, carrying a firearm because someone might not respect his right to live and let live. I felt good about myself today and about this thing we do with firearms. You and me.....we are responsible and we dont just go shooting folks because they are different than we are.

Your comments are welcome.

 

[TX-Dennis]

I'm not a cop, but I would have been concerned, too. Ya done good.

 

[Geo. T.]

It Happens!

It does happen but if I had been you I would have done the same. If It is a possible threat race / color is not the issue. Safety
is. While having a CHL doesn't make you a police officer if does give you the choice to help if needed! Being observant when carrying just comes natural to me!

 

[Shark Bait]

You were right to watch, prepare and evaluate. Anything less would have been irresponsible. Think about how many times you do that every day. As a cop that's "all the time". Responsible gun carriers should be doing this too, so they can avoid being caught off guard and overreacting.

 

[jframejoey]

If you could see it seated from with in the restaurant and he was in the parking lot it seems to me he probably making a show of it. If he was a younger guy probably a HEY LOOK AT ME kinda thing.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I remember in Ohio, before we had Concealed permits, we had "Justifiable defense". That was CC was basically illegal but you could carry if you has a recognized need: high risk of robbery, repeated robbery, carried large amounts of cash (never defined, but I know a man that had $134 and the charges were dropped), abusive spouse and a few others. We had death threats occasionally and the cash thing but seldom carried. When I see someone accidentally reveal a carry weapon, my normal response is take precautions, but I assume they have a need (and a permit). Enforcing the law is the job of professionals. Self protection is everyone's job, regardless of their social standing!

Ivan

 

[jimmib]

I live by the old Boy Scout motto....Be Prepared....I think always being observant and assessing the situation is a smart way to live....I also live in a metro area and am more alert in some areas than others....for instance today I went into an area that is higher in crime than others so I carried my 40 Shield instead of my 9mm compact....I personally like living in a diverse area, especially for the different foods...not all diverse areas have high crimes rates, but it never hurts to know which ones do and be prepared.....I totally agree with what you did

 

[Rastoff]

Awareness is essential to self-defense. If you aren't aware of the threat, you can't act to defend against it. You did well and used your awareness properly. You identified a potential threat and created a plan. Once you realized it wasn't a real threat, you ratcheted back down.

One aspect of awareness that rarely gets talked about is quality assessment. Not only did you identify the potential threat, you correctly evaluated its potential. This is probably a function of your experience. Far too many would have reacted differently and incorrectly.

You did well and by relaying the story to us, have made us better as well. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Rastoff, you can't just keep stealing my thoughts like that - ain't there a law against that?

 

[GerSan69]

Well....
I'm retired, so I guess I can say this: my gun would be out and ready. If I were with co-workers (which would have been other cops) they'd be doing the same. And if we were in our jurisdiction, we'd have been all over those guys the second they looked cross-eyed. Not trying to call you out, but jeez, that's about as complacent a reaction as I've ever heard about.
Maybe the new "PC" policing doesn't allow for that reaction these days....I don't know. But I also know from experience "giving the other guy the benefit of the doubt" means letting him have the first shot. That just ain't gonna happen if I can help it.
Just being honest. Pile on if you want, I can take it.

 

[Old cop]

I've read all the responses and unless I missed it no one mentioned calling the "real" cops, I would have. If the kid was legal no foul, if not he was up to no good.

 

[Arc Angel]

....... We ate a great meal and as we were finishing, an SUV pulled into the parking lot, parked normally. Two young men of a certain ethnic background exited.

They were dressed for the climate, I noted the younger one pull up his T-shirt and conceal what looked like a .45 into his waist band above his crotch. (not my thing).

....... Your comments are welcome.

I think you're first instincts were the right instincts. What you saw is referred to as either, 'FELONY' or, 'MEXICAN' carry. In my experience better than 95% of people who are licensed to carry do NOT use this method. I know, for a fact, that Pennsylvania State Police Officers are trained to view this sort of weapon carry with suspicion.

What you saw is NOT normal CCW behavior. In my opinion if you are, indeed, a police officer then you should have asked to see the young man's concealed carry permit. If you are not a police officer then taking down the vehicle's description and plate number, and calling in a report, 'from a concerned citizen' would seem to be in order.

(Just out of curiosity, were you in uniform?)

 

[BAM-BAM]

.......maybe I missed something........

he got out of the vehicle with a gun (.45) in his hand...... then concealed it..........?

"...he walked to the counter.... and I immediately took my hand off my gun and out of my pocket "

If he and his friend intended to rob the place..... isn't that where he would walk to??????



Some questions............thoughts..........

Does Texas have laws on "brandishing"......


were your "co-workers" ... police officers? Didn't you alert them to the possible threat?

Was he the driver? a call could have had the locals do a drive by and run the plates to see if owner had a permit.... Don't know about Texas but IIRC the lists are linked in Pa.


spotting a well set up concealed carrier; gun, belt and holster..... sends a whole different message to me vs. a gun in the hand or a gun stuck in the belt.

 

[PirateJim]

... What a screwed up society we live in and the police have to make that decision....

Yep. I think the OP did the right thing, as a civilian or LEO. Hard to tell if the young man was a good guy or a bad guy, but I would want the benefit of the doubt in a similar situation.

Yeah, the Mexican Carry thing looks suspicious, but riding in a car it surely would be uncomfortable, so I can see why someone wouldn't leave it tucked in there while riding around. And there are good young men as well as bad ones. If I was a young man of minority decent living in the area described, I'd probably want a carry permit, and maybe the "Hey look at me!" Mexican carry is just the thing to convince the thugs to leave him alone.

In any case, vigilance is always a good thing and threat assessment is something everyone, carrying or not, should be practicing.

 

[Inusuit]

My interpretation of the OP's post is that he is no longer LEO ("Being the cop I was. . .") But I'm unclear if that's the correct interpretation, but I think it's correct as he later says ". . . had the cop seen what I saw..."

Anyway, had I been in the OP's situation, I would have also gone to condition red until it became clear that the young man was there for a meal and not to rob the place.

As a civilian, I have no obligation to confront someone I know is carrying a firearm, regardless of the situation but especially in a crowded public place.

There have been recent news stories about anti gun groups encouraging "SWATing," that is calling law enforcement anytime they see an individual carrying a gun openly or concealed if the firearm is observed.

For those who say the OP should have called 911, how is this situation different? Because the young man is "of a certain ethnic background?"

Yes, my friends in law enforcement say they almost never encounter a bad guy carrying a gun in a holster because it is evidence they were carrying if they ditch the firearm.

Just my opinion, but I admire the OP for how he handled this situation, and I especially like his last paragraph. jtpur, I'd eat ethnic food with you anytime and anywhere. Well done, well said.

 

[usm1rifle]

You and me.....we are responsible and we dont just go shooting folks because they are different than we are.

Very true, there are just too many...

 

[keith44spl]

I too pick those strategic spot to sit in all establishment.

I'm a people watcher too



.

 

[colstontc1]

In today's world, you have to be ready and alert to all possibilities that might happen. You did right, you were prepared, but you thought things out before just reacting.
I'm the same way, but you have to keep a level head and think
Never let your guard down, but never let fear or panic make decisions for you.
Remember, the only person that is actually watching your back, is you
Always be prepared but be smart also, before interveening.
Good job

 

[RSanch111]

I would have gotten out of there, especially if I had my family with me. Probably would have just walked out and waited in the parking lot for a while to see what happened, if anything.

 

[shotgun693]

`I retired after 35 years in LE. If I see something odd or out of place I tell my companions that we needed to sit there a bit longer. I wouldn't have left 'til after that kid did. Just in case.