S&W 460xvr or The 500?
- Thread starter Tony The Gem
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ruggyh
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So how is my observation immaterial. It is not an opinion either.
I see far more J and K frames in pawn shops and rarely any X-frames by comparison. Can we now say that they are J and K frames are novelties?
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Road_Clam
Member
Rob41 said:
I had no idea which big bore I wanted, even after a month of reading. I shot a 4" .500 mag, and hated it. Wayyy too much felt recoil to enjoy shooting 10+ rounds. I also shot a 8-3/8" .500 and like that frame better, noticeably less recoil at the expense of a much heavier frame. Then I PM'd Ruggy many times with all my questions and needs, he replied in DEEP knowlegable and unbiased opinions as to exactly which model would suit me best. My 2 final choices were the 10" and 12" 460 XVR. I ended up choosing the 12" simply for the fact it had a slightly heavier barrel contour than the 10" . I also preferred the top and bottom picitinny rails on the 12". When your getting ready to blindly drop $1200+ you need to be dam sure you make the best choice, Ruggy was a huge help.
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akmtnrunner
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I've owned a 6.5" 500 and loved it. I only sold it when I needed money for a wedding (I don't regret it). With that said however, I am back in the market for just the right 500. Here are the reasons why the 500 for me, and then I'll share some ideas of where the 460 would win out.
For me, I want maximum effect on a big hairy things that want to kill me. If I am in a hunting situation at anything longer than 20 yards, I will use my 375 Ruger which I will have with me. I reload, so I can make loads easier to shoot and right up to my personal limit. And with the x-frame, that personal limit for recoil will be much more powerful than with any other platform (points for the 460 as well!). I prefer handier guns with barrels only long enough to have a decent sight radius and get most of the cartridge's potential velocity and limit the amount of powder burning after the muzzle, and the bigger bore of the 500 allows that. Both the 500 and 460 have a ton of powder to burn, about twice as much as a 454 casull!
Now, in a lot of ways the 460 is similar to the 500 when viewed from a wide perspective. Both make other big bores look like 357's and 38's. But they have entirely different advantages over each other. The 460 has much better versatility for the NON-reloader with factory 45 colt and 454 casull ammo. If one is intent on never reloading but will shoot it more than a hundred times, go no further than the 460 unless they buy a new car every year. The major advantage of the 460 is it's speed. It's all about adding speed to the same 452" bullets of the 45's and 454's. This is the cat's meow if one is looking to take 100+ yard shots or set up with a scope. It needs a long barrel to have a significant advantage over the 454.
In summary, the 500 is a defense weapon, the 460 is a hunting weapon.
For me, I want maximum effect on a big hairy things that want to kill me. If I am in a hunting situation at anything longer than 20 yards, I will use my 375 Ruger which I will have with me. I reload, so I can make loads easier to shoot and right up to my personal limit. And with the x-frame, that personal limit for recoil will be much more powerful than with any other platform (points for the 460 as well!). I prefer handier guns with barrels only long enough to have a decent sight radius and get most of the cartridge's potential velocity and limit the amount of powder burning after the muzzle, and the bigger bore of the 500 allows that. Both the 500 and 460 have a ton of powder to burn, about twice as much as a 454 casull!
Now, in a lot of ways the 460 is similar to the 500 when viewed from a wide perspective. Both make other big bores look like 357's and 38's. But they have entirely different advantages over each other. The 460 has much better versatility for the NON-reloader with factory 45 colt and 454 casull ammo. If one is intent on never reloading but will shoot it more than a hundred times, go no further than the 460 unless they buy a new car every year. The major advantage of the 460 is it's speed. It's all about adding speed to the same 452" bullets of the 45's and 454's. This is the cat's meow if one is looking to take 100+ yard shots or set up with a scope. It needs a long barrel to have a significant advantage over the 454.
In summary, the 500 is a defense weapon, the 460 is a hunting weapon.
ruggyh
Member
akmtnrunner
Not true, a 3.5" producing over 2000 fps with factory FTX loads.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/356679-460-s-w-velocity-barrel-length.html
If you really want a 500 with a short barrel I would suggest the 5" JR if you can find, good balance in the hand and no compensator.
akmtnrunner
I had no problems with this hairy guy. 7.5" 460 S&W
Good luck and be safe
Ruggy
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at_liberty
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Nonsequitur
at_liberty
Member
You should review the OP and then try to convince me that my posts are inappropriate and not well meaning.
Then review what I actually wrote and note that I mention preferring the choice of a 460 for its caliber versatility...meaning to imply that it would be a way, preferred over my Redhawk, to shoot heavy 45 Colt loads.
You guys are making too much of parsing the word "novelty".
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sandmansans
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Lol I may be biased because I have one, but go with the .500.
Lol its like saying you have a 12" you know what. Yea it may be too big and too painful for your lady and yes a smaller is more practical for the job... but when you pull that puppy out everyone wants to take a look and grab it...
I'm talking about the .500 of course!
Lol its like saying you have a 12" you know what. Yea it may be too big and too painful for your lady and yes a smaller is more practical for the job... but when you pull that puppy out everyone wants to take a look and grab it...
I'm talking about the .500 of course!
roscoepc
Member
I have just reviewed the OP and the entire thread and found that I have indeed made an error in my post, # 73 I believe, where you did indeed recommend the 460. After stating the case for the 44mag being the largest caliber that was needed for practicality, in your opinion, and that the X-Frames were "Novelty" weapons that ended up in pawn shops more than any other Smith Wheelguns...
I submit to you Sir that IN YOUR AREA, there might be more X-Frames in pawn shops than other S&W wheelguns. In Ruggy's area there might be more of the J & K frames.
Unless you have visited EVERY pawn shop in the US there's no way that you can know just what there's more of!!!
And again... I still don't see your reasoning in beating on Ruggy as stated in my post.. He's one of the most knowledgeable members here concerning X-Frames especially the 460!
And please..... Nonsequitur??? Parsing????
If you wish to "Bloviate" at least get "Non Sequitur" correct.......
akmtnrunner
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That's with an extremely light 200 grain bullet. A typical length 454 will routinely push 240 grains that fast. Still useful, no doubt, but it's a neutered 460 in my opinion.
Funny you mention the John Ross edition 500, that's the one I'm always on the watch for!
Nice bear. I'd like to hear how the shot and kill went.
at_liberty
Member
<snip>
And please..... Nonsequitur??? Parsing????
If you wish to "Bloviate" at least get "Non Sequitur" correct.......
I don't think you needed the petty conclusion.
Rob41
Member
Ya thread crapped AC, plain and simple. Something this discussion could have done without. Most folks realize when they have stepped on it and walked away.
@akmtnrunner, I agree with your post but I actually like the lightweight/fast 200 FTX for whitetail hunting. It will take them down with authority and at quite a distance. I think if I was hunting anything larger or tougher, I'd wand a heavier bullet.
@akmtnrunner, I agree with your post but I actually like the lightweight/fast 200 FTX for whitetail hunting. It will take them down with authority and at quite a distance. I think if I was hunting anything larger or tougher, I'd wand a heavier bullet.
at_liberty
Member
I would pick the 5" barrel 460 because of its caliber versatility and what I feel is a practical barrel length. I like the look of it better too.
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Road_Clam
Member
I've done quite a bit of 200 FTX testing at 200 meters and if I am having a "flinchless" good day I can stay well within a 9" pie plate , so i'm around 3-4 moa. Not bad at all for an amateur pistol shooter at 200 meters..
Rob41
Member
I'm amazed at the accuracy on my .460 with less than a 9" barrel as well. I would want something heavier for boar for sure, but for deer hunting or at the range I really like the 200 FTX. IMO, it actually exhibits less felt recoil than my SRH .454. Likely this is due to the reduced bullet weight and additional weight of the X-frame.
Road_Clam
Member
Can't offer any hunting knowledge as it's not my thing but I can tell you I actually see comparable accuracy shooting the 300 gr XTP's out to 100 yds. The XTP's are also cheaper than the FTX's. My go to hyper velocity FTX load is using 50 gr of H110. The FTX's seem to show some better accuracy at 200 meters. If I load all the way to 52 gr I tend to experience stuck cases in the cyl. IMO No need to risk max abuse on my expensive 460 brass so I back off on the powder charge a bit and the brass extracts much better. I believe the Hornady factory 460 load for the 200ftx is 52.1 gr of H110 .
swinggrind
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I bought both years ago to have in my collection I would not want to give up either. Several years ago I had a officer stop by the stone quarry where I was shooting. After several minutes of conversation I asked him if he wanted to shoot the .500! He was thrilled and sat down at my portable shooting bench and fired several rounds. Initially he had stopped due to a noise complaint but left me in peace after shooting. He got a big thrill shooting the big X frame. Either one is good but having both if possible serve as a great stress reliever and conversation piece. Thanks
Rob41
Member
Next summer when I return from the ship I work on I plan on finally getting into reloading. I too will not be looking to load to the maximum. I experienced stuck cases with my RSH in 454 and do not want that again. I'll definitely check out the 300 gr XTP's.
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