Cylinder won't close

[antoniskyriazis]

Merry Christmas everybody!

I thought of posting about that annoying problem as I failed to find anything by googling it.
Not rarely the cylinder of my 686 Target Champion 6" does not want to completely close in the frame but needs a slight turn (left or right) to find its way...
The ejector rod? yes I tightened it up (very annoyingly it keeps loosening itself) and the underneath of the star is perfectly clean (as to eliminate these shortcomings).
It is however true that I cannot reproduce this trouble with empty cylinder, but only with live ammo or snap caps.

So, I am looking into explanations from your very experienced community. The revolver has gone through very tough uses (1000 rounds a week with PPU Partizan 357, 1225 Joule).

Any ideas?

thank you
antonis

 

[regalsc]

I'm thinking have you cleaned the cylinder/chambers so there is no carbon buildup to prevent your rounds from going all the way in? Does it look like when you have this problem that the base/rim of the rounds are rubbing the recoil shield? I'm no expert but when I fired 44special in a 44mag it would be hard to close the cylinder when loading 44mag due to a carbon buildup from the shorter round.

 

[antoniskyriazis]

I'm thinking have you cleaned the cylinder/chambers so there is no carbon buildup to prevent your rounds from going all the way in? Does it look like when you have this problem that the base/rim of the rounds are rubbing the recoil shield? I'm no expert but when I fired 44special in a 44mag it would be hard to close the cylinder when loading 44mag due to a carbon buildup from the shorter round.

Thanks for the idea: I failed to mention that these troubles began after I started firing .38sp. With the very strong .357 I never had any troubles, apart from screws loosening and pain in the thumb's nerves. Perhaps I need working a bit with a lens...
thanks

 

[AzShooter]

If you shoot .38 specials and then shoot .357s you will have a buildup of carbon in the cylinder. Use your brush and some cleaning fluid to break up the carbon and your problem will be solved.

I've had this happen to me.

 

[SLT223]

The overall length of the cylinder has increased. This happens two ways:
1) MOST LIKELY FOR YOUR SCENARIO - There is filth packed in under the ejector. The solution is to clean under the ejector star and its mating surface on the cylinder with a nylon brush and solvent.

2) The ejector rod has begun to unscrew. Remove the crane and cylinder assembly from the gun, remove the cylinder from the crane, and tighten the ejector rod. IF you need to see how this is done, there are plenty of vids on you tube that illustrate it. IF this is your probelm fix is right now, because it will eventually l ead to you not being able to open your gun.

 

[R*E]

I've used WWB and had trouble closing a pre -27 cylinder. Found some of the brass was thicker at the base and it was enough to interfere with closing the cylinder if the defective cartridges were near the top strap.

 

[Inusuit]

The overall length of the cylinder has increased. This happens two ways:
1) MOST LIKELY FOR YOUR SCENARIO - There is filth packed in under the ejector. The solution is to clean under the ejector star and its mating surface on the cylinder with a nylon brush and solvent.

2) The ejector rod has begun to unscrew. Remove the crane and cylinder assembly from the gun, remove the cylinder from the crane, and tighten the ejector rod. IF you need to see how this is done, there are plenty of vids on you tube that illustrate it. IF this is your probelm fix is right now, because it will eventually l ead to you not being able to open your gun.

Did you read the original post? He clearly states that he has addressed both of the issues you raise.

My opinion is the buildup of crud after firing .38 Specials in the chambers is the problem, and possibly some slightly out of spec rounds with thicker rims as he can close the cylinder by slightly rotating it.

 

[SLT223]

Did you read the original post? He clearly states that he has addressed both of the issues you raise.

My opinion is the buildup of crud after firing .38 Specials in the chambers is the problem, and possibly some slightly out of spec rounds with thicker rims as he can close the cylinder by slightly rotating it.

Uhg, I just did one of my own pet peeves....

That'll teach me to post before coffee.

 

[federali]

The most common causes of hard closing have been addressed. But, I'd like to caution anyone tightening the ejector or extractor rod on a revolver that this must be done with one or two casings in the cylinder to prevent force being applied to those little alignment pins at the rear of the cylinder.

 

[gnystrom]

The most common causes of hard closing have been addressed. But, I'd like to caution anyone tightening the ejector or extractor rod on a revolver that this must be done with one or two casings in the cylinder to prevent force being applied to those little alignment pins at the rear of the cylinder.

Good stuff to remember. Thanks

 

[AveragEd]

That's a great reminder about which I have forgotten at times. Another is to use the proper tool for holding the rod as you loosen and tighten it to avoid damage to it. I bought one of the clamp-type ones and it takes the worry out of that task.

Ed

 

[WisconsinKen]

This is exactly the reason I hate my wife shooting any of my .357s. She only wants to shoot light 38s and the crud builds up in the front of the cylinder. I think I am going to have to start loading her some minimum charge 357s and see if that is soft enough for her.

 

[federali]

Extraction Issue?

I forgot to mention that before my agency transitioned to autoloaders, a common problem was to trap unburned powder flakes under the extractor star, which, as you guessed, raised the star enough to create hard closing.

We traced this problem to the technique used during rapid reloads. We minimized the problem by holding the revolver vertically, muzzle up. Another technique essentially kept the revolver parallel to the ground and was designed to expel shell casings behind you and away from your feet. This technique often trapped unburned powder.

Our revolvers all had two-inch barrels, which, were notorious for incomplete burning of the powder charge, leaving unburned powder. The more complete the combustion, the less problems you have.

 

[SLT223]

This is exactly the reason I hate my wife shooting any of my .357s. She only wants to shoot light 38s and the crud builds up in the front of the cylinder. I think I am going to have to start loading her some minimum charge 357s and see if that is soft enough for her.

Why not load 38 SPL in 357 brass if you're already hand loading?

 

[BruceM]

Why not load 38 SPL in 357 brass if you're already hand loading?

In all honesty, that's the smart thing to do. I mean, 35 years ago, fired .38 Special was ultra plentiful (and inexpensive) because of it's widespread use by LEO's but now? Why even mess with it. It creates more problems than it solves if you're already handloading. Of course, things may be completely different on the other side of the pond.

Bruce

 

[WisconsinKen]

Question for you. I was always told to be aware of the charge density in a case. If I have a minimum charge 38 wadcutter load and then use the same load in a 357 case, the powder density (grains per cc of case volume) is even lower. Would I have a greater chance of a squib of other misfire? Maybe I have been following a "wives tale."

I will probably start loading for her in the next year. My dad was LE so he gave me a ton of 38s that my wife has slowly been working through.

 

[Coastie762]

WisconsinKen, There is published data out there for light loads in .357 cases. For instance the current Speer manual shows light load data for their swaged 158 grain lead SWCs.

I also have an older Speer manual (#10) that listed data for their 148 HBWC. That manual shows a start load of 3.0 grains of Bullseye and max load of 3.3 grains. I've shot a lot of the 3.0 grain load in a .357 case and it worked pretty well for me.

 

[steelslaver]

If your ejector rod is properly tightened it should not lossen all the time. Insert 3 spaced empty cases and place ejector rod in drill chuck tighten, chuck then turn by hand until firmly tightenen holding chuck and cylinder with hands. Don't be a gorilla, but think firm handshake.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Insert 3 spaced empty cases and place ejector rod in drill chuck tighten chuck, then turn by hand until firmly tighten holding chuck and cylinder with hands. Don't be a gorilla, but think firm handshake.

Really? A drill chuck? Genius! That's one of those tidbits to file away. Thanks.

Leave it to the Marines.

 

[snubbiefan]

All sorts of tricks out here. I use a cheap tubing flaring tool with the ridges filed out to prevent scaring the rods. Of course...you can purchase the "right" tool, but some of us nuts just love to beat the system and improvise.

I do a lot of down-loading for my bride and I think the rumor that light-charged loads may blow-up in your gun is just that...a rumor. I routinely load-down 38-special to around 1.4 grains of BE and know people that take that on down for small critter hunting.

Believe this or not, but I watched my neighbor shoot a box of 357 out of a 686 4-inch barrel loaded with only a primer. He forgot to add powder and just shot them up. Every one of the slugs went "thud" on a stump. 105-grain LSWC Alox lubed.