Opinions on this engraved- UPDATE--Factory Letter Received

[firemanhank]

Update...Letter From Roy received today. See last post in thread.

New pics added on the rear target sight..see post 30

I was asked about this 1906 (per serial number) .32 HE today. Of course it caught my attention and I have spoken to the owner via phone only.
The guns serial is 49 something something something. I can't remember, but it is 5 digit. I asked the major questions and found that there is a B preceding the serial number on the bottom of the barrel. So, it was blue when it left the factory, but its nickel now. I had him pull the stocks and again, no N stamp and no other marking or dates to indicate it was returned to the factory. The early 32s were, for the most part, shipped with service sights and this one has a target sight with a modified front sight.

The engraving ??? The stocks ??? Hmmm....
The owner is sure it was factory engraved, however, everything else on this particular revolver says aftermarket. Only way to be sure is with a letter unless you guys see something I am unfamiliar with (which, in this case, is a lot)..
I also asked him to run the stocks across his teeth and tell me what it felt like. He said smooth, but then changed course and said gritty. The only marking on the rear of the stocks is the letter "I" which he describes as etched into the stocks. He wants to know if its real MOP.
So, what say you? What is your opinion so I can pass it along..He also asked for the value as is.
Thanks,
Hank

 

[gmborkovic]

Hello Hank, need more pics of rear and front and grips off. MOPs appear to be factory. If finish was changed, no collector value. Little difficult to tell anything from one pic and no Sn. Best

 

[H Richard]

I would go so far as to say it was done "in the style of" a factory engraved, but not done by the factory. It has (most probably ) had the rear and front sight added. The finish is evidently not factory, but the grips do appear to be. While it will have no "Collector" value, it will have value to those who admire S&W's with "added" features. I am no expert, but would guess it would probably bring in the $600 to $750 range, provided the mechanics are good, and the rest of the gun is at least as good as the one view shows.

 

[firemanhank]

Mike, the serial number is 453xx. I don't remember the last two numbers of it though. Any other way to tell if true MOP? I told him the stocks may be worth more than the gun.
Hank

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Have him heat up a pin and stick it to the back of one of the panels. If it melts and smells like plastic, it's plastic. If nothing, it's pearl.

 

[firemanhank]

I was going to suggest the hot needle idea but was afraid he might mess up the stocks.

A couple more pics...

 

[gmborkovic]

Hank, this is a 32-20 right? 32 Win. is the same. Hot needle is the best.
Apparently you do not have the gun in hand. Real MOP have a glow about
them. Very 3-D. Like glass. My opinion, $700 is a stretch. But opinions are like elbows, everybody has two. Best

 

[Modified]

Hank, this is a 32-20 right? 32 Win. is the same. Hot needle is the best.
Apparently you do not have the gun in hand. Real MOP have a glow about
them. Very 3-D. Like glass. My opinion, $700 is a stretch. But opinions are like elbows, everybody has two. Best

No, it's an I frame by the looks of it. It says .32 Long on the side.

 

[murphydog]

I think the top photo clearly shows the right stock panel to be MOP. The medallions suggest they are factory.

I also suspect the engraving is not factory, and photos of the top strap would help clarify if the sights are original (as would having the SN stamped on the rear sight leaf).

 

[gmborkovic]

Well excuse me! I did not have my K-mart glasses clean. I had a steak/cheese sub for lunch and must have splattered some cheese up on the lens.I only got one good eye left. Best. Will probably happen again.

 

[Modified]

Well excuse me! I did not have my K-mart glasses clean. I had a steak/cheese sub for lunch and must have splattered some cheese up on the lens.I only got one good eye left. Best. Will probably happen again.

Dirty glasses? There can be no excuse! You forfeit all your S&Ws for this shame, PM me for my address and you can send them all to me.



That rear sight sure looks like a S&W sight in profile.

Does the rear sight blade have a white outline? I'm wondering if we have some King parts going on here.

I really like that revolver by the way, but I am one of those weirdos who likes old modified guns.

 

[gmborkovic]

"From my cold dead hands" do my beloved girls leave me.
Hey Weirdo, good banter. I like it. I also like old modified guns, but not $700 worth. Some of those old post war Navy machinists could do amazing quality work. I do miss the 1950s and 1960s. Best and good hunting.

 

[Hondo44]

Hank,

I agree, clearly an I frame, a very nice and unique ".32 HE Model of 1903 - 1st Change" likely from mid 1906. The solid hammer nose (firing pin) rivet
substantiates that vintage as well. The target sights look completely factory original. The front sight protocol in that period was to mill off the integral
forged 1/2 round front blade and mill a mortise for a pinned in target blade of any number of factory or after market styles. The one shown appears to
be the most common factory Paine bead style. This can be verified by finding the gun's serial # on the underside of the rear sight, on the front blade
and usually on the rear blade; all must be removed to see however.

The finish appears to have more of a silver plating luster rather than nickel, is that a possibility when the owner observes it in person? Again, not factory
or the grip frame would usually have an <S> for silver plated or a P in a circle for plated.

Although photos don't facilitate identification that well, stocks are factory MOP with 99.9% certainly IMO with proper factory recessed gold plated
medallions of the period. A hot pin poked on the backside one would smell something akin to having teeth drilled at the dentist, but only on ivory,
stag antler, or bone, not MOP. The I on back of stocks indicates they are for an I frame revolver which is another indication of factory stocks. But
the most telling indicator that they were originally specified as an optional order from the factory on the gun, is that the serial # does not appear
to be stamped on the grip frame forestrap, so must be on the butt.

The significance of that observation is, and presuming my evaluation of the target sights as factory original is correct, the gun would have normally
been shipped with black Gutta Percha hard rubber extension stocks, and therefore have the serial # on the forestrap which was protocol since ~ 1891.

If a letter verifies the originality of factory installed target sights and MOP stocks, one could about double the value figure above or more. Perhaps
even more could be reaped at auction. The period engraving if not original may still add a bit of value if quality done.

It's fun to observe these rarities and I hope this is helpful,

 

[opoefc]

Hank, All .32 HEs, Mod. 1903,ser. #s 45301 t0 45399 were made May 7, 1906, as part of a production order of 200 guns, and were all blue guns with black HR grips. None were target models or engraved. The subject gun got it's embellishments after market. Ed.

 

[RKmesa]

Regardless of who did the engraving, I like it. It strongly resembles some of the Oscar Young work (I think he would have been at the factory in the early 1900's). Someone will be along shortly to correct me...

Here is a photo of and link to a thread with some of Oscar's work...

source: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-change-target-s-likely-work-oscar-young.html

 

[firemanhank]

Made a trade for the revolver today. Couldn't help myself.

First: the stocks have no effect on a hot needle. No melting and no smoke. Feel gritty across teeth. I am now in the belief that they are real..Anybody care to guess their value as I am not sure. On the back of the stock there appears to be a scribbled "I" or "H". See pics. I would like to know value.

Rest of pics below. Please note the areas where the engraving appears as well as how well the front target stock fits the service stock area, (it is made like it it belongs) it seems to seamlessly flow into the front of the barrel. Could it have been a target model as it fits like no other rear sight I have seen.

So, on to the pics...and give me your opinions..Are the front targets original. Could the engraving be ( I know its far fetched) done from the factory as it appears in neat places, please see the engraving on either side of the rear sight.

Please, all questions and comments appreciated.











The stocks. Passed the tooth grittiness test and a red hot needle would not penetrate.

 

[handejector]

JACKPOT!!!

The grips are Factory pearls. Quit pokin em with hot needles.

The engraving is almost certainly one of the Youngs. Possibly Oscar- those scrolls look mighty nice......

I see NO indication of a refinish.
The Factory is known to have pulled a blue gun from the vault for a special order.....

The sights look Factory.

GET A LETTER!

Any rework marks on the left gripframe?
Are you confident you can remove the rear sight with no damage?

 

[firemanhank]

Ok, the consensus is factory pearl stocks..They are in immaculate shape. Whats the current value of stocks like these?

The engraving I am still puzzled about. Why engrave a blued gun only to have it refinished in nickel? Could it have been pulled off the line after the "B" was stamped, but finished in nickel instead?

There are no rework marks on the grip frame as I am familiar with them.

I am fairly confident I could remove the rear sight without problem, but what would I be looking for. The rear sight is the smallest I have ever seen. The sight hole is maybe 1/16" and lines up perfectly with the front sight.

Also failed to mention all serial numbers match.

Hank

 

[raljr1]

if they are original target rear sights, the frame will have a half round slot milled in it for the nut that the rear screw goes into. and the sight will be serialized...just learned this from the guys after they had me look at mine.

 

[firemanhank]

RKMesa, this target sights seem to be the same as the ones onmy revolver. Any other info on them you can pass along?
Thanks,
Hank