Smith M/P line losing to Sig or Glock

[turbo38gn]

M&P may have the better ergonomics but Glocks simplicity and reliability trump M&PS all day long.

keep drinking the koolaid.... like the M&P isn't simple.... ain't anything simpler about em..

 

[triaxle]

I was just up back and was shooting my L/E MP 9 with night sights sku 309701 it was flawless I did put a new 357 sig green color recoil spring in this gun to play with and its flawless with any ammo , just shot Win steal case speer gold dot and some blazer , this spring is a little heaver maybe gives a tighter and longer lock up ,gun has a up grades

 

[amcline82]

Simple and they would not have the RSA issue that so many people come across. Don't get me wrong I love my shield great for concel carry simple to use. Trumps the 43. But other than that the compact and FS models Glock all day.

 

[Elkins45]

M&P may have the better ergonomics but Glocks simplicity and reliability trump M&PS all day long.

You can't trump 100% reliability, which is what I have experienced with my two used M&P guns. One might go so far as to refer to their reliability as "perfection."

 

[amcline82]

I am glad that you have good experence with your M&PS. But they are defiantly not perfection. Glock has been making poly pistol for a much longer time than S&W they have perfected it.

 

[Holmes375]

I am glad that you have good experence with your M&PS. But they are defiantly not perfection. Glock has been making poly pistol for a much longer time than S&W they have perfected it.

Glock is an excellent pistol, no doubt about it. But "perfection" is certainly an overstatement of the manufacturer. Its not like they have been 100% trouble-free nor do they fit well in all hands.

Excellent weapons? Yes. Perfection? Not so much.

 

[Prasko]

My only complaint of the M&P design is the trigger hinge.

I much prefer glock style triggers, but this isn't so much of a gripe against S&W as it is against apex for not making a polymer shield trigger. Tried the aluminum, corner of the trigger rubbed my finger to the point of blistering.

I would gladly pay the same price as the aluminum for a poly shield trigger from apex.

 

[Holmes375]

Agreed. I knew going into the M&P game I'd be changing the trigger and I do like the polymer Apex in my 9c very much. I can't imagine why Apex doesn't offer the polymer for the Shield, especially as popular as that pistol is.

 

[triaxle]

The only Apex stuff I have put in some of mine is the sear and trigger spring , and the more polished firing pin block. My shield trigger seemed very good from day one short and crisp.

 

[Elkins45]

I am glad that you have good experence with your M&PS. But they are defiantly not perfection. Glock has been making poly pistol for a much longer time than S&W they have perfected it.

I'm not a Glock hater. In fact I own four of them. They are not perfect. Are they reliable? They are. Are they durable? You bet. Would I trust my life to one? Without hesitation. Are they perfect? No. Nothing is.

The giant bulges left behind on 10mm brass by my early G20 certainly fall short of perfection. Having to buy a new barrel to shoot full-power cast loads isn't perfect. Finger grooves that don't fit my hands aren't perfect.

Sorry, but when anyone uses the term "perfection" to describe any firearm IMO they end up sounding like a marketing guy.

 

[MMT]

I think the pistol with the best chances of future success is the P320. It offers advantages at both the individual and departmental level as far as logistics goes. I would be surprised to see the current MP making any large strides in sales with the P320 now as an option. Realistically all of the pistols mentioned in this thread are excellent, but there are more considerations than performance alone.

 

[Biscut]

Just guessing but I would think Glock could easily undercut any other manufacturers bid. Other than the barrel and slide almost all the other parts are same between models other than the G20 and G21. And these share a lot of parts with each other and internal parts with the small frames.
Like fdw, the M&P 'feels' better to me....the Glocks, 'different'.
Glock's chambers and bores tend to measure a little larger than many allowing them to run even when 'dirty' aiding their rep for reliability.

+1 here. IMHO S&W took the Glock platform and made a few improvements (most notable to me is the SS chassis) and to avoid the law suit added some, IMHO nonsense. Great guns the M&P's are. But very hard to compete with a competitor who has done little to modernize or upgrade much over 20 years. Yes, new models and "improved" recoil and some better fit options with Gen4. But part interchangeability is still high and the changes made are NOT anything that costs a ton to deal with.

Try beating the big boy on the block when his overhead is that low. |Not an easy task.

 

[triaxle]

I have the new M/P 9mm full size L/E gun with night sights and the PVD finish sku 151215 and its on par with my G17 gen 4 . I am not sold on the Sig 320 yet I hear good to go but they have not been out long .

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

My current primary carry gun is a Sig P320 Carry in 9mm. I cannot stress enough how much I love that gun. I also think "modular" pistols are the future.

In the past I owned a Glock 19, Glock 30s, Glock 30sf, and M&P 9. The M&P 9 felt the best, but the accuracy was horrible. I even replaced the trigger with an Apex competition trigger kit. I sold it and moved on.

The Glocks were reliable but never very comfortable to hold. Accuracy was pretty good too. I sold them as well.

For striker guns give me a Sig P320, HK VP9, or Walther PPQ. Those are arguably the best striker guns on the market right now. I did recently pick up 2 shields. I picked up a 9 without manual safety this month and a 9 with manual safety in November 2015. Both have been flawless, accurate, and comfortable to shoot and carry. I prefer them over the Glock 43. The Shield (at least the latest batches) are very big winners in my book. I'll just pass on the compact and full size models.

 

[viceunit]

I have been issued 5 different Glock pistols, starting with the pebble grain grip G17 (Gen 1?) up to my latest, the Gen 4 G22. I have no experience with the S&W M&P line of pistols. But, I have no doubt that they are quality pistols. Certainly, if I trained on one I could depend on it just as I have with any of my Glock pistols.

When our department decided to join the revolver-to-semi-auto pistol revolution in the late 1980's nothing available from any other manufacturer at the time had a product that could compare to the Glock - especially the price. So we bought 110 G17's.

As other posters have noted, once you have all of the related leather gear and associated support equipment it is very hard to justify in your budget a change to another brand of firearm - especially when Glock offers sweet, virtually no-cost "upgrades" to the latest model. I just got a new G22 issued last month. My "old" one was still virtually like new.

Glock has a firm grip on the LE market. They got in early and have no intention of letting it slip away. It is not perfection, but it ain't bad either. If the M&P had been first, I think it would be in the majority of police holsters today.

 

[kbm6893]

A friend of mine at work is a big gun guy. Owns dozens of handguns alone. To him, the Glock is the greatest pistol ever created. He calls the M&P and SR series "junk".

But he rarely shoots his guns. He bought the Glock 43 months ago and hasn't shot it yet. Same for the 42. He told me he has less than 500 rounds combined through all of his Glocks(he owns 6). Basically, he's not qualified to have an opinion on the matter. He just repeats the same advertising slogan over and over. Now that the Navy SEALs are going with the Glock 19, there's no shutting him up.

Glock makes a functional weapon, but they do not have the features I want in a semi auto. And the truth of the matter is that they do nothing better than the M&P, SR9, or any other modern striker pistol. They come with crappy plastic sights, plastic magazines, and the barrels aren't up to shooting lead reloads.

As for "maintenance", other than replacing a few springs every 5000 rounds, what else needs to be done?

 

[kbm6893]

Glock did (not does) one thing better than any other manufacturer. They market better. The rediculous product placement in the movie "US Marshals", with Tommy Lee Jones and his "get rid of that sissy pistol and get yourself a Glock", followed by Robert Downey following his advice and Tommy Lee saying "these things are so cool. They shoot underwater. This will never let you down", must have cost Glock a pretty penny. Giving guns away to law enforcement insuring they are chosen. And of course their timing being the first real popular striker guns, has made them what they are.

But the truth is that they haven't changed much in the 30 years. Glock essentially puts out one product, just in different calibers. Of course I'm not counting the Glock Entrenching Tool!

They're a plastic gun that reliably launches a bullet. No different than most other striker guns. S&W makes revolvers, pistols, rifles, (both classic and tactical). Glock just keeps making the same thing over and over. And largely clueless people buy into their hype.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Now, I really do like Glocks, but for all of the blind fanboys who really buy into the "Perfection" hype, how about this turn of a phrase: "There is nothing at all wrong with a Glock that cannot be fixed by (1) changing the grip angle from "Luger" to "1911," (2) getting rid of the ill-fitting finger grooves, (3) putting on a real Picatinny spec rail, (4) making a barrel that has a fully-supported chamber so you don't have those pesky "kabooms," (5) making a barrel that allows reloaders to shoot lead bullets, (6) removing the "sproing" from the trigger, (7) getting a coil trigger spring that doesn't just snap in two every once in a while (admittedly the NY1 trigger leaf spring fixes this, but it is not standard), (8) changing the magazine baseplate attachment to allow mags to be disassembled as easily as other good quality magazines, (9) acknowledging a problem with failures to fire in certain models due to light primer strikes, and making either of the other two heavier European firing pin springs available here instead of adding a couple of thousandths of an inch to the cruciform sear and calling it a day (talk to LAPD if you haven't heard about their G21 issues), (10) re-designing the 2 x 4 feeling grip of the G20/G21 family to allow persons with ordinary hands to properly use the weapon, (11) making magazines available for the G43 that hold 7 and 8 rounds of 9mm, (12). . . ."

Shall I go on?

Now, just to be fair, I could make a similar list for the M&P.

I have had plenty of criticism for the M&P, but you cannot come here touting some advertising hype from Glock and trashing the M&P, and expect that we don't know our Glocks over here at the S&W Forum, and that we are not going to point out the obvious - Glock has many issues also.

We know it because we own and use Glocks as well.

Capiche?

 

[kbm6893]

Forgot the issue with trying to disassemble a Glock magazine. I clean my mags after every range outing and hated trying to get my Glock mags apart.

Basically, Glock has jus continued to regurgitate the same old thing. Pull trigger to disassemble? Don't bother to change the design. Hard to disassemble mags? Too bad! Plastic non-adjustable sights? Learn to use them!

They work. Just like any other modern striker fired weapon. "Perfection"? Hardly!

 

[Holmes375]

One of the problems I've always had with the Glock Fan Club is the premise that anything I find unfavorable about the design represents a failure or lack of skill on my part as a shooter.

It must be my grip as it could not be those finger grooves that simply do not fit my hand making extended sessions uncomfortable and consistent shot-to-shot grip maintenance difficult.

If I remove the finger grooves on my G-19 and enjoy comfortable consistent shooting I have sinned by modifying the perfect creation of gods