Smith M/P line losing to Sig or Glock

[medic15al]

I am glad that you have good experence with your M&PS. But they are defiantly not perfection. Glock has been making poly pistol for a much longer time than S&W they have perfected it.

If they were perfect, Why all the trouble with brass to face, stovepipes, and weak ejection issues when the gen 4 come out? If perfected, no other generations would have been made.

 

[kbm6893]

If they were so perfect, why did the Navy SEALs specify the gen 3 model? And does anybody think they're going to have an out of the box model? Or will they be tweaked for the SEALs?

 

[shawn mccarver]

There is no telling why the special forces do anything, but I suspect it has more to do with standardization between SEALs and other special ops groups, together with the fact that the Gen3 Glocks have a long track record with special forces.

The Gen3 Glock is a fine weapon, and if that is what the operators feel they want and need, it is better they pick for themselves than some bloated Pentagon program which apparently the brass and even Congress seems unable to control.

That said, Glocks are still not perfect.

Go spend a little time over at Glock Talk, and you will find hundreds of posts about the same sorts of things you see here - light strikes, brass to the face, mystery marks, alleged cracks in the breech face, etc., etc.

We are lucky to have so many fine makers to choose from these days. The long track record weapons include the Gen3 Glocks, the Beretta M9, HK HK45 and HK Mk23, and the SIG Sauer MK25 and M11.

Since they value reliability above all else, if they need something off-the-shelf right now, and do not wish to have open competition, they are going to get something that is already on some government contract or approved list, or something that already has an NSN.

That likely accounts as much for adoption of the Gen3 Glock as anything else. As to whether their pistols will be "tweaked," I would imagine that as they are used, if "issues" are found, they will be "tweaked."

It should not be hard to find a SEAL with inside info to answer this since there seems to be a "former SEAL"* or other special ops guy (or a friend of one) in every easy chair these days. . . .



(I put in a smiley because I do not know how to put in an "emoji" for sarcasm.)

*I am not a SEAL, nor do I play one on TV.

 

[fyimo]

I will never say a bad thing about Glock pistols as I owned 3 of them once. I owned a Model 17, Model 21, and a model 23 and they were reliable and accurate. That said I ended up selling them and buying a Sig P226 9mm, a Sig P226 40 S&W and a Sig P220 45 ACP. To me the Sig just fit my hand better and I shot them better and there was something about them being an all metal pistol.
Sig P220

 

[triaxle]

Wow I got a lot of views on this topic and a lot of good feedback thats good to read . I love Smith but all this reading is making me want to go out and get a new Glock and I all ready have two . But that one post is right if Smith M/P was out first and everyone had their leather gear I think Smith would be in the lead .

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

I rather have a S&W SW99 than a M&P 9. I wish S&W would bring them back. Looks like Walther, Magnum Research*, and [now] Canink will made a lot of money off of that design.

*Walther actually builds the frames for Magnum Reasearch's copy of the P99.

 

[Arik]

I rather have a S&W SW99 than a M&P 9. I wish S&W would bring them back. Looks like Walther, Magnum Research*, and [now] Canink will made a lot of money off of that design.

*Walther actually builds the frames for Magnum Reasearch's copy of the P99.

I think they are are still made. I see new ones at my lgs. Not a lot but there is usually one or two. I don't know who makes them but I was stunned to see a 99 in the case a month ago.

 

[Arik]

If they were so perfect, why did the Navy SEALs specify the gen 3 model? And does anybody think they're going to have an out of the box model? Or will they be tweaked for the SEALs?

I'm sure they tweak them but I don't think it's anything to do with triggers. Most likely they'll demand a different finish and probably different sights for suppressors, threaded barrels.....stuff like that. I doubt they'll be doing anything mechanically since most of these guns are noting more than tools for a job. And you'd be surprised how many of these guys are actually not gun guys.

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

I think they are are still made. I see new ones at my lgs. Not a lot but there is usually one or two. I don't know who makes them but I was stunned to see a 99 in the case a month ago.

I think the SW99 is discontinued, but Walther still makes the P99 (including a compact size), magnum reasearch has the MR9 and MR40, and Canik's TP9V2 is basically a P99.

 

[Arik]

I think the SW99 is discontinued, but Walther still makes the P99 (including a compact size), magnum reasearch has the MR9 and MR40, and Canik's TP9V2 is basically a P99.

Maybe it was the P99. I'd have to take a closer look next time

 

[Hawg Rider]

It's a matter of personal choice

Very interesting conversations! My very first semi-auto purchase was a Glock 23 (with pre-ban high-cap mags), but I could never get comfortable with it. Dependable? Absolutely. Quality? Yes. I just didn't like the ergonomics. I later purchased a S&W M&P .45, and I still love that gun. It's my go to home defense pistol with a Streamlight installed on the rail. A little more complex pistol to operate and break down than the Glock, but not much. Comfortable to shoot (interchangeable palm swells), accurate, smooth, and extremely dependable. I can't recall ever having had a FTF with the M&P. Recently however, I purchased a new Sig Sauer P226R SAO Legion in 9mm. Not for the Legion hype, but for the quality, feel, and performance. Also partly because I got a great deal on the price (MSRP is crazy!). What an outstanding handgun! Unbelievably accurate right out of the box, the SAO SRT flat trigger is superb, and I've run hundreds of rounds of various ammo through it already without a FTF. I'm a big 1911 guy (yes, including a S&W 1911PD), so the operation and cocked/locked carry of the SAO is completely familiar to me- besides, I'm not a big fan of DA/SA. This new Sig Legion is a fantastic pistol, and it's my only 9mm. So there you have it for me- I like both the M&P and the Sig. Both great guns that I intend to use for a long, long time. Handgun ownership comes down to each owner's personal choice of make/model, and ergonomics.

BTW: Many of the Forum posts are correct in that Glock really pushes their pistols to LE, and have cornered the market due to prices, incentives, dept. trade-ins, etc. One of my sons works for a LGS, specializing in LEO and Military sales, and they are a big "Blue Label" distributor for Glock. It's almost crazy how cheap Glock will provide guns to PDs and other LEOs. But with that said, they are dependable and easy to service. S&W is a distant second for LEO, and will remain there unless they somehow change their marketing strategies. I think Sigs are just too pricey for most LEOs, and are reserved for use by specialized SWAT teams.

 

[S. Kelly]

The Belgium Nat'l Police bought 8000 M&P9s, if Wikipedia is to believed, it says they had to send 6000 back for repair. It was S&W's market to lose, and lose they did.

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

Maybe it was the P99. I'd have to take a closer look next time

On a side note, I picked up a new s&w shield 9mm without manual safety for $350 + tax and fees last week from tanner's. That wasn't too bad. Nobody else could beat that.

 

[Arik]

On a side note, I picked up a new s&w shield 9mm without manual safety for $350 + tax and fees last week from tanner's. That wasn't too bad. Nobody else could beat that.

They had/have (hopefully it sold) a HK USP 45 compact with 4 mags for $600. I've been trying to avoid going in there so I'm not forced to buy it!

 

[petemacmahon]

Just read an article in the Motley Fool titled "the 5 best selling pistols of 2015". These were civilian sales, but S&W had two in the top 5. Glock wasn't mentioned. Also, in the same article, the Shield exceeded 1M total units sold last year.

Pretty good numbers.

Out
West

holly cow, according to that article, the #1 gun in 2015 on Gunbroker was the : First Place: Kel Tec PMR-30

No wonder the prices on those never come down. Their margin on that must be amazing.

 

[MaineJeff]

I'm sure they tweak them but I don't think it's anything to do with triggers. Most likely they'll demand a different finish and probably different sights for suppressors, threaded barrels.....stuff like that. I doubt they'll be doing anything mechanically since most of these guns are noting more than tools for a job. And you'd be surprised how many of these guys are actually not gun guys.

What I have read, indicates that lot is that the Glock is lighter and smaller, which has an appeal to NSW. One the specific things I read is that Glock has marine versions of the G19 that change the spring cups to vented ones, allowing water that enters the firearm's internals to quickly run out as the pistol is removed from the water.