Report on J-frame quality control

[turbo38gn]

Every time I read one of these threads, I cringe... Not because I believe there is a problem, but because I just don't see it. I run to my vault I start pulling out revolvers... takes a while to look at them all.... and I see nothing!! I mean nothing. I won't say how many revolvers I have purchased over the last 6 years, but I can say, it's a bunch. And not only new production pieces, but old S&W revolvers as well. My experience has come across more problems with the older no lock revolvers than the new lock revolvers. Still haven't found a canted barrel.. other than one of my older models.

 

[OLDSTER]

Quality

I'll be the "fly-in-the-ointment" I own a dozen S&W revolvers; 11 of which are 1980 and older so no QA/QC issues with any of them. The only new one I own is a 360J purchased a couple years ago as a carry gun. To say I am pleased would be an understatement . Fit and finish are flawless, mechanically excellent, nice smooth trigger, and shoots like a dream with POA/POI spot on at 7 yards. I hope the poor QA/QC you all are describing is not a trend; It would truly be unfortunate

 

[gnystrom]

Most of us here are true S&W gun lovers. The average guy in an LGS buys the gun, shoots a box of ammo, and it probably goes in a closet where it can "protect his home".
My issues lie with the lack of quality on many guns coming out of the Performance Center. At $300-$500 more than a comparable model off the factory line, I expect everything to be 100% perfect nearly 100% of the time. No longer the case guys and gals.

In the future, I will restrict myself to sending my standard factory models directly to a heavy duty gunsmith and wait the year while they smooth and polish get them to the spec they should have been when S&W sent them to the distributors for sale to the LGS.

I don't just fault S&W as I have seen many Ruger "special modes" with huge variances in quality.

 

[SmokinLoon]

My 642-1 (PC) is as fresh off the gunsmith's bench as a revolver can get and per my inspection I'm not seeing any of the issues described above. Same goes for my 66-8 that still feels warm from the production line. I'd like to think that most of the guns that leave the S&W production line or the gunsmith's bench are inspected and cleared. However, if and when something squeaks by it appears that S&W has been good to work with. True, sub-standard craftsmanship from S&W should never reach the market but when it does they will remedy it.

They are currently repairing my BG38 that suffered a broken firing pin block (a first according to the S&W tech I spoke with). I'm the second owner. There were no questions, just a "print the shipping label and send it to us and we'll take care of it".

 

[Lobster Picnic]

My 2 recent S&Ws have been fine, but I do wonder how some things get past inspection. For instance, the 351c just has raw metal for the cylinder face - completely unpolished and unfinished.

 

[Capttjk1]

Every time I read one of these threads, I cringe... Not because I believe there is a problem, but because I just don't see it. I run to my vault I start pulling out revolvers... takes a while to look at them all.... and I see nothing!! I mean nothing. I won't say how many revolvers I have purchased over the last 6 years, but I can say, it's a bunch. And not only new production pieces, but old S&W revolvers as well. My experience has come across more problems with the older no lock revolvers than the new lock revolvers. Still haven't found a canted barrel.. other than one of my older models.

Bingo. I too have purchased a number of S&W revolvers over the past year. All NIB. I have had NO problems with any of them. Straight barrels, tight lock up, and good looking forcing cones. The quality of all my new S&W revolvers has been superb, IMO.

 

[magnumkdb44]

yes i have bought a 60-14 and a 686-6+ this year (2016) and both have flaws. sad as this is the new normal for smith and wesson as others have stated.

 

[turbo38gn]

I love these 1st posts......

 

[springer99]

40 or so years ago, I purchased a Model 34 .22RF Kit gun and it was flawless.
40 or so years ago, I purchased a Model 36 38Spl and it was flawless.
30 or so years ago, I purchased a Model 57 .41Mag and it was flawless.
5yrs ago I purchased a Model 642-2 38Spl and it was flawless.
2yrs ago I purchased a Model 63 .22RF Kit gun and it was flawless.
Recently I purchased a Model 60-15 38Spl and it was flawless.
Recently I purchased a Model 629-6 44Mag and it was flawless.
AFAIC, I see a pattern here. Think I'm just lucky?

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

40 or so years ago, I purchased a Model 34 .22RF Kit gun and it was flawless.
40 or so years ago, I purchased a Model 36 38Spl and it was flawless.
30 or so years ago, I purchased a Model 57 .41Mag and it was flawless.
5yrs ago I purchased a Model 642-2 38Spl and it was flawless.
2yrs ago I purchased a Model 63 .22RF Kit gun and it was flawless.
Recently I purchased a Model 60-15 38Spl and it was flawless.
Recently I purchased a Model 629-6 44Mag and it was flawless.
AFAIC, I see a pattern here. Think I'm just lucky?

I don't see a pattern. I see seven good revolvers and a little luck. I have purchased FAR MORE revolvers than the number you mention. Somewhere around 5% have had major flaws requiring factory attention, and that's not counting POA/POI issues on fixed-sight revolvers. I'm not that surprised that you got seven good revolvers, but I'm not surprised that others have gotten a bad one once in a while. That's what happened to me.

 

[Bill In Texas]

I love these 1st posts......

+1 ! Me too!

 

[lrrifleman]

I have 6 Smith revolvers, 4 of which I purchased NIB. Of the 4 I purchased new, none of them had issues; however, one K gun was purchased in the late '70s, one K gun and my J gun were purchased in the early '80s, and the N gun was purchased in the early '90s. Even the 2 S&W revolvers that I bought used had no problems once they arrived in my hands. However, the N frame that I bought used did develop a problem ... the extractor star separated from the ejector rod ... seems it had been a press fit.

In all honesty, I haven't seen any NEW S&W revolvers that have caught my eye, and I despise the internal lock. At this point, should my S&W collection grow, any new Smiths will most likely be OLD Smiths!

 

[GAPATRIOT]

The one I bought recently is very nice. The other one they had looked like it was assembled in a dark cave...

 

[Pef]

Let's see... S&W introduced a K-Frame .357 "in the good old days" that had a forcing cone that was susceptible to cracking under .357 Magnum stresses.

Yep, I guess they don't make them like they used to.

I've seen a few pictures on this forum of canted barrels from 1970's and earlier era revolvers.

And I've also seen many posts on this forum regarding new production revolvers and alleged problems such as:

"rough edges" on the crown
"rough edges" in the forcing cone
"imperfect ribs" on the barrel
"canted barrel" where one needs a blow up the picture X10 to discern the cant

And so on.

I've had some legitimate problems with some smiths - One new 60-14 had a very loos yoke, and smith fixed it. But you know what? I had an old Model 60 square butt from the 1970's that had the same problem!

All is well, folks. The hand basket holding the world is still a long way from hell.

 

[Octavian1978]

Ive purchased 5 smiths over the last year. 3 used pre locks, 686-5 2.5", 3" cs1, 29-4 3". 2 new smiths, 442 performance center and 340 mp no lock. All of them are perfect, even the used ones. While it's my opinion that most of the regular production models lack a professional look anymore, when millions of guns are leaving your factory, a few lemons will get out. Do the math with ANYTHING MASS PRODUCED, and I bet S&W is still far ahead of any manufacturer in regards to QC. I get it though, with the price difference between Smiths and their competition, people expect perfection from them. Where they unfortunately have to make up for it is in the awesome customer service they provide. And that they do in spades.

 

[bountyhunter]

Yesterday I went to a large LGS that always has a big stock of items. I knew I was going to buy a stainless J-frame 640, so I figured I'd check out all their inventory to pick the 'best' one.

I inspected 10 revolvers total. All new in box. Seven 640's, and three 649's. Every single one of these revolvers had various 'problems'.

Nothing new. Back in the mid 2000's, I used to check out guns at my local range while I waited to shoot in the next league set. At the time I genuinely believe SW must be intentionally shipping all their rejects to California to punish the state for it's gun laws. I found defects on most guns, some so bad the guns needed to be returned. I showed the really bad ones to the guys there and they said they would return them.... and of course they just sold them.

That LGS sold so many defective guns that they posted a large signing saying how buyers had to deal directly with the gun maker and they would not get involved. Great service. But the poor quality has been happening for quite a while now.

 

[bountyhunter]

I think the problem with revolvers is that even with MIM parts, they still need a fair amount of hand fitting compared to the plastic autoloaders now so popular. To keep up with very high production demands AND quality control, this requires actual people who are trained and even (gasp!) talented. Companies these days simply don't want to pay to hire those people in enough quantities to keep the good ones from burning out.

That's it exactly. Doing a job right requires at least one perfectionist be involved at some point in the process. They no longer exist.

 

[bountyhunter]

Ive purchased 5 smiths over the last year. 3 used pre locks, 686-5 2.5", 3" cs1, 29-4 3". 2 new smiths, 442 performance center and 340 mp no lock. All of them are perfect, even the used ones. While it's my opinion that most of the regular production models lack a professional look anymore, when millions of guns are leaving your factory, a few lemons will get out. Do the math with ANYTHING MASS PRODUCED, and I bet S&W is still far ahead of any manufacturer in regards to QC.

Maybe, but that is like the old saying that in the land of the blind, a one eyed man with 20-200 vision would rule.......

The problem with guns is that they are UNLIKE any other consumer product in that when you buy it, you are stuck with it. Even cars can be swapped out if you get a real lemon. That means for guns the standard of quality should be a quantum leap higher since the buyer is stuck with whatever they take delivery of.

 

[Collo Rosso]

The problem with guns is that they are UNLIKE any other consumer product in that when you buy it, you are stuck with it. Even cars can be swapped out if you get a real lemon. That means for guns the standard of quality should be a quantum leap higher since the buyer is stuck with whatever they take delivery of.

? I no longer have some guns I once owned.

 

[slabside2]

I've been saying away from the new S&W revolvers for a couple of years now after playing the (will send you a shipping label to return it) but decided to take a chance on a BRAND NEW 340pd on Gunbroker. I picked it up today. Cost close to $900.00 I opened the box all excited and this what I seen. The blast shield was falling off. Now it's safe to say I'm DONE for good with the newer guns