What the difference in strength between different K-frames?

[steelslaver]

I know I read about the frame differences, so I looked it up in the SCSW. This is in their description of the Model 19:



Notice how the thick area where the barrel threads in extends down to the bottom of the shroud. The thick area on a standard K frame angles back just below the ejector rod. As I said, the frames are not the same.

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That is so they mate up with the bottom of the ejector shroud, The extra metal in that area does nothing to add any actual strength., which was the OPs question. It does make a little bit of a miss match where the bottom of the shroud meets the frame, if you stick a shrouded barrel on a non shroud barrel. But look carefully at the python barrels where they meet the model 15 and model 10 frame, Hardly noticeable and a Python barrel has more meat in the shroud than a Smith one does. Joke is if you mill 1/10" off the face of those frames the shroud will then matches perfectly.

Id did that on the face of this Brazilian frame to match up the 1950 barrel. I als machined a slot and silver soldered in some sight tang to make the top of frame match the barrel rib, when I made it into a pinned and recessed 45 colt using a reamed 44 mag cylinder

There are also some variations on the top front of the frame. The 2" model 15s are different there than the 4" and longer, The earlier fixed sight thin barrels were rounded in that are etc etc.

 

[66fan]

I just don’t get ruining a Colt or a S&W. Just buy the perfect gun in either caliber, barrel length, frame size, stocks, and finish in your liking. I would never convert any S&W into frankenstein or any gun for that matter. Just saying.

 

[Warren Sear]

Both are fine for plus p. If you wear out your 10-8 from plus P it will take 500 rounds a month for a few decades. The heat treat was different between the 10&19, but no concerns.

Is there any reliable documentation to support the assertion that the heat treatment was different between model 10 and 19 frames?

 

[steelslaver]

I just don’t get ruining a Colt or a S&W. Just buy the perfect gun in either caliber, barrel length, frame size, stocks, and finish in your liking. I would never convert any S&W into frankenstein or any gun for that matter. Just saying.

Wouldn't or can't. Show me where I can buy a factory 5 screw pined and recessed 45 colt with the correct throats, I have 3 of them. Show me where to get a vent rib K frame 357 or a K frame in 22 Harvey K Chuck. How about a 3" fixed sight K frame 327mag or a 6" K frame 327 mag without a full under lug. You can't because S&W neglected to make what I want. By the way for the most part lots of my guns were not in the best of shape or factory original when I got them.

Just sayin

 

[Doug M.]

+P ammo is still relatively low pressure and you would have to spend a staggering amount of money and time to do ny damage. IMHO, that would be ordinary wear - no firearm is going to last forever if you shoot enough. In most cases, the performance difference will be modest even irrelevant. Load it up with standard velocity SWC and a .38 will do darned near anything important (self-defense, the main use). I suppose would might find the ammo difference important for hunting, but proficiency is far more important than ammo performance.

As noted, I would not be shooting a lot of it in an early (pre-1930 or so) M&P, but that is not a platform I will ever own so my knowledge is ... theoretical at best, if one even calls it "knowledge".

 

[BC38]

So not all K frames are equal.
The Magnum K frame is different than the regular K frame.
There is a significant piece of info for people thinking they can make conversions.
Thanks for pointing that out.

Not all magnum and regular K-frames are different.
This frame was originally stamped 10-6, but the factory used it to build an early 13-1, and in the process "overstamped" the 10-6 with 13-1
In the first picture you can see the remnants of the 0 obscured by the 3 and the 6 (partially) obscured by the 1
The second and third pictures highlight the original stamping vs the re-stamping
So in at least SOME cases, the magnum frame and regular frame are in fact identical.

 

[daveboy]

I agree. I have some early M&Ps that are in great condition. I baby them. I'd probably never use my Model 10 for anything except punching paper. But, since I reload, I was just curious why some K-frames were rated for .357, while others were not.

+P ammo is still relatively low pressure and you would have to spend a staggering amount of money and time to do ny damage. IMHO, that would be ordinary wear - no firearm is going to last forever if you shoot enough. In most cases, the performance difference will be modest even irrelevant. Load it up with standard velocity SWC and a .38 will do darned near anything important (self-defense, the main use). I suppose would might find the ammo difference important for hunting, but proficiency is far more important than ammo performance.

As noted, I would not be shooting a lot of it in an early (pre-1930 or so) M&P, but that is not a platform I will ever own so my knowledge is ... theoretical at best, if one even calls it "knowledge".

 

[steelslaver]

As far as the why I believe it has way more to do with the cylinder than the actual frame.

1 Frames don't let go until after the cylinder does.

2 They now make J frame 357 mags. There is no way on this earth to improve the heat treatment enough to give those smaller frames enough strength to match that of a standard K frame.

3 Look at the scandium frames which have the same dimensions as the steel frames and then go check out the yield strengths of the best scandium vs mill run 4160.. In no way is the scandium stronger than a steel frame

4 My final example it the Colt Walker capable of firing a 260 gr slug at 1100fps with no back strap what so ever, with a barrel held together with the frame by a wedge passing though the shaft that cylinder rode on. Thats right the barrel assembly was fastened to the fame by a 3/16" thick x 3/4'' wide wedge passing though a 3/8" shaft. Yet it held together on a round making 700 ft lbs which is slightly more than a 158 gr 357 at 1400 fps at 680 ft lb

 

[CH4]

Nice piece! Great use for a M10 frame. Better than sacrificing a 2.5” M19.

 

[roundels]

This can go both ways. I have a Model 65 chambered in .38 Spl.