K frame 38 vs 357 cylinder metallurgy?

[Alk8944]

A lot of folks “claim” to have been the reason for the Model 19 but the stimulus can easily be attributed to Evaluators Unlimited.

Kevin

There are not " a lot" of people claiming responsibility for the Model 10/Combat Magnum, only one! This was William Jordan of the Border Patrol who encouraged Col D.B. Wesson, then President of S&W, to produce a K-Frame .357 Magnum that would be principally intended to shoot .38 Special, but would be strong enough that a moderate amount of .357 Magnum ammunition could be fired by Law Enforcement Officers of all types for duty use without fear of failure of the guns due to the more than double the pressure of .38 Special ammunition as loaded at that time.(prior to +P loads) Direct responsibility for the Combat Magnum revolver was solely in the hands of Col. Wesson. Jordan merely made a strong request/suggestion.

 

[steelslaver]

I have used a hardness tester on both frames and cylinders and found no difference. BUT there is a lot more to steel than hardness. A piece of steel can be in a pearlite. martensite or bainite state and register the same hardness, yet have a different yield strengths

 

[StrawHat]

There are not " a lot" of people claiming responsibility for the Model 10/Combat Magnum, only one! This was William Jordan of the Border Patrol who encouraged Col D.B. Wesson, then President of S&W, to produce a K-Frame .357 Magnum that would be principally intended to shoot .38 Special, but would be strong enough that a moderate amount of .357 Magnum ammunition could be fired by Law Enforcement Officers of all types for duty use without fear of failure of the guns due to the more than double the pressure of .38 Special ammunition as loaded at that time.(prior to +P loads) Direct responsibility for the Combat Magnum revolver was solely in the hands of Col. Wesson. Jordan merely made a strong request/suggestion.

Bill Jordan spoke to Carl Hellstrom, president of S&W.

Kevin

 

[Model29-26.5]

I had read or heard in videos about the model 19 becoming available “due to advancements in Metallergy” and heat treating I think but I guess not.
The only real difference, then, is a slightly longer cylinder and a shrouded cylinder rod. They could’ve made a 357 magnum in a K frame years before. I wonder why they didn’t until a lot later if there was no difference?

 

[sjmjax]

I suspect it was demand.
Police departments were a major market. Political decisions and public relations probably prevented adoption of magnum caliber weapons for standard issue.

Departments like Highway Patrol agencies could go with large frame revolvers.

 

[chief38]

While I do own a bunch of K frame .357 magnum revolvers, I rarely shoot them from those guns. When I do, I only shoot l 158 grain bullets. I doubt my K frames have seen more than a dozen magnums out of them in all the years I have owned them. My woods walking gun is a 3" M65 and I load it with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast 357 magnums. While not easy on the hands, it is what I feel to be the best round for black bear in .357 magnum I know of. I've shot very few of them through that gun (maybe 6) and have chronographed them as well. They are moving out at over 1,300 fps and at 180 grains pack a lot of energy! I know the K frame is not an ideal "bear gun" however it is a pleasure to carry in the woods all day and I always have it on me. Much better than a .44 magnum left in the cabin.

When I get the urge to shoot magnums I use an L or N frame and those can handle any 357 magnum loads on the market. IMHO, .38 special revolvers , even if chambered for the magnums are really just .38 specials designed for shooting a few magnums if necessary, not for everyday pounding.

 

[jaguargolf]

One thought on reboring .38 cylinders to .357 magnum:

Would you let your granddaughter shoot it?

 

[JohnHL]

One thought on reboring .38 cylinders to .357 magnum:

Would you let your granddaughter shoot it?

I would if I did it.

John

 

[Model29-26.5]

I’m thinking when they talked about advancements in metallurgy, maybe they meant overall on all models?
So maybe the 1935 Registered Magnum steel was not the same as the 1955 357 Magnum? Overall the steel was stronger, so they figured a K frame 357 would be ok?

 

[stansdds]

I’m thinking when they talked about advancements in metallurgy, maybe they meant overall on all models?
So maybe the 1935 Registered Magnum steel was not the same as the 1955 357 Magnum? Overall the steel was stronger, so they figured a K frame 357 would be ok?

I expect you are correct. Metallurgy and heat treatment processes advanced quite a bit during World War II.

 

[mtgianni]

That is good to know.
Finally!

I heard that Elmer blew up a bunch of guns During experimentation… and all kinds of stories like that. I know his intervention was primarily the 27 but I figure he would’ve had something to do with the 19, too?

Elmer claimed to have blown up one gun, a 45 revolver.

 

[OlongJohnson]

My question is why ream a 38 cylinder, when K frame 357 cylinders are easy to come by and trimming the barrel shank and adjusting the forcing cone is easy and it doesn't cost that much more for the tools and cylinder than it does a 357 reamer.

And when you're done, you'll actually have a smooth, in-spec forcing cone and cylinder gap, instead of the ugly garbage that S&W ships.