Nearly New 27-9 Classic Cylinder Problem

[rwhillman]

I just bought a 27-9 that the original owner says he only put about about 20 rounds through. It does look new. I took it to the range yesterday and it shot beautifully, at first. Pretty mild 38 special ammo. But then I had some trouble re-engaging the cylinder after loading. It felt like something was blocking the cylinder. But after a few minutes and more tries, it engaged and I resumed shooting. Things were fine for a few rounds, and then the same problem happened again. And again.

Today, with everything cooled down, I looked at it again. Usually, but not always, the cylinder moves up and locks fine. But randomly it seems like something is blocking it. I suspect there is something at the muzzle end of the extractor rod, either with the rod or the pin that recesses when it is pushed in to the channel. But everything is lubed and seems to work, so I am at a loss. Any suggestions would be appreciated very much.

Bob

 

[twodog max]

You probably already checked but is the extractor rod unscrewed slightly.

 

[rwhillman]

You probably already checked but is the extractor rod unscrewed slightly.

I am pretty new to this so am not entirely sure. If I hold the cylinder and try to turn the tip of the rod, nothing moves. So I assume the rod is not unscrewed.

 

[Nightowl]

There are a couple of things this could be. The most common one I run into, is that some debris from firing gets under the extractor and is just enough to make closing more difficult. I keep a brush in the range bag and when this happens, lift the extractor and brush the cylinder and under the extractor. The other is that the extractor rod come loose. If you can turn it, then it's loose. It has left hand threads. If it is loose, there are a couple of ways to tighten it, but the best way is to buy a special tool from either Brownells or MidwayUSA to keep from damaging the rod and the internal center pin. Be sure to put two or more empty cases in the cylinder so as to reduce the stress on the extractor arms. Sometimes the end of the extractor rod is not cut square. This causes opening and sometimes closing problems.
From your description, I would think that debris under the extractor is the most probable cause.

 

[rwhillman]

There are a couple of things this could be. The most common one I run into, is that some debris from firing gets under the extractor and is just enough to make closing more difficult. I keep a brush in the range bag and when this happens, lift the extractor and brush the cylinder and under the extractor. The other is that the extractor rod come loose. If you can turn it, then it's loose. It has left hand threads. If it is loose, there are a couple of ways to tighten it, but the best way is to buy a special tool from either Brownells or MidwayUSA to keep from damaging the rod and the internal center pin. Be sure to put two or more empty cases in the cylinder so as to reduce the stress on the extractor arms. Sometimes the end of the extractor rod is not cut square. This causes opening and sometimes closing problems.
From your description, I would think that debris under the extractor is the most probable cause.

Thanks Richard. I just tried to clean any debris but the problem persists. The extractor rod rotates freely in sync with the cylinder. If I hold the cylinder the rod does not move.

 

[rwhillman]

Let me just add something as I have been able to take a closer look because at this moment the problem exists. The extractor seems to be very flush against the cylinder (I just cleaned and brushed it). My uneducated sense is that the problem is at the other end of the rod, which seems to be bumping up against the pin that is supposed to recess to allow the rod in the channel. If I push the pin with my fingers, it recesses fine.

 

[WR Moore]

From your description, I take it your problem is that sometimes the cylinder will not enter the frame and lock into position?

If so, please check the following: first, check the tightness of the ejector rod. Put some cases in the chambers, hold the cylinder and try to rotate the ejector rod counter clockwise.

Next: with the cylinder unloaded and swung out of the frame, hold a flat object against the center pin at the ratchet and push in. Looking at the end of the ejector rod, with the center pin flush to the headspace button, the end of the center pin should protrude about 0.005 inches from the end of the ejector rod. The end of the ejector rod should be even with respect to the center pin and the end of the ejector rod should be chamfered slightly to form an angled ramp.

Now, if we're still good, try to close the cylinder watching the front end of the ejector rod and the locking bolt (pin in the barrel assembly). When the ejector rod touches the locking bolt, it should be touching a flat, ramped section of the locking bolt. This flat works with the chamfer on the end of the ejector rod to push the locking bolt forward and allow the cylinder to close. Sometimes the flat doesn't extend far enough forward and won't push the locking bolt forward. In a very few cases, the locking bolt clearance cut isn't properly located to allow the locking bolt to move far enough forward, but that's really rare.

If the piece is nearly new, why not call S&W Customer Service and see if they'll take care of this for you? This isn't really rocket surgery, but it's really easy to turn this situation into a major problem.

 

[rwhillman]

From your description, I take it your problem is that sometimes the cylinder will not enter the frame and lock into position?

If so, please check the following: first, check the tightness of the ejector rod. Put some cases in the chambers, hold the cylinder and try to rotate the ejector rod counter clockwise.

Next: with the cylinder unloaded and swung out of the frame, hold a flat object against the center pin at the ratchet and push in. Looking at the end of the ejector rod, with the center pin flush to the headspace button, the end of the center pin should protrude about 0.005 inches from the end of the ejector rod. The end of the ejector rod should be even with respect to the center pin and the end of the ejector rod should be chamfered slightly to form an angled ramp.

Now, if we're still good, try to close the cylinder watching the front end of the ejector rod and the locking bolt (pin in the barrel assembly). When the ejector rod touches the locking bolt, it should be touching a flat, ramped section of the locking bolt. This flat works with the chamfer on the end of the ejector rod to push the locking bolt forward and allow the cylinder to close. Sometimes the flat doesn't extend far enough forward and won't push the locking bolt forward. In a very few cases, the locking bolt clearance cut isn't properly located to allow the locking bolt to move far enough forward, but that's really rare.

If the piece is nearly new, why not call S&W Customer Service and see if they'll take care of this for you? This isn't really rocket surgery, but it's really easy to turn this situation into a major problem.

Thanks very much.

On the paragraph beginning "Next," things may be going wrong. The center does not protrude at all from the ejector rod and in fact was recessed slightly.

But in the course of finishing the test you suggested, something happened that may explain what is going on. A small spring fell on the floor, quickly followed by the pin in the barrel assembly.

So I think I am rapidly coming to agreement with your idea that I should give S&W a call before things escalate further.

Again, I appreciate your suggestions and those of others.

 

[rwhillman]

So I think the problem is this pin in the front part of the barrel that engages and holds the ejector rod. Dead giveaway is when it fell out with the spring. I put them back, probably not the right way, and things seem to be working quite a bit better but still not perfectly. I suspect this is pretty simple to fix for someone with any talent at all (not I). I'll call S&W.

Thanks for the help.

 

[WR Moore]

With the additional information, it sounds like the ejector rod wasn't properly fitted during original assembly. Annoying, but not really a big deal. Since it's an "as made" problem, S&W should fix it free or, at worst, a nominal charge.

I expect the problem is why the piece is "nearly new".

Back when I ran a shop, a customer brought in a pistol where another .....person.... had "fixed" his similar problem. He shortened the ejector rod until it didn't lock up on the locking bolt at all.