Is Sig becoming the new S&W of old?

I agree the .357 Sig is a wonderful round for self defense and LEO's, my agency has 16 years and counting of excellent street results with it in the Gold Dot 125gr's. Best thing? You get 9mm +P+ performance (akin to the old Illinois 9BPLE 115 gr JHP load) without the +P+ pressure slamming your pistol into an early grave.

Yeah, it makes the gun a bit heavy and gives off a bit more blast, but the troll trying to murder you is also getting it on the other end. Besides, whoever said carrying a 1911A1 loaded with 8 rounds of 185 gr to 230 gr JHP's was exactly light, either? Reverse engineer your carry needs; I think first of what I would want on my hip if my life was about to end at the hands of some idiot like James Holmes or Seung-Hui Cho, realizing that relative weight, recoil and blast are not as important as putting that threat away *now*...what do I think would be critical for me to have in my hands in those fleeting few moments?

It makes carrying a P229 or P226 in .357 Sig seem extremely reasonable and an effort worth putting out for.

Just one old Irishman's take....

Can't disagree with any of that. It is a good round which serves a purpose. I do think that the round is still pretty hard on the gun but I agree not as bad as shooting +p+ 9mm but I personally believe that is not necessary. These days for civilian usage a lot of the standard pressure 9mm will get the job done.

For LEO usage the parameters are different which is why I believe some agencies have chosen it. I just disagree that the Sig line was "designed" to shoot the .357 Sig and that the .357 Sig round is best shot out of a Sig.
 
true but the P229 with its forged frame has to be designed for that round as the original P228 was for the 9mm.
Nope. The 229 was designed to handle the 40. The only other solution was to make such a stiff recoil spring for the 228 that it wouldn't be practical. The 229 was introduced in 1992 and Sig was one of the last manufacturers to add a 40s&w. The 357sig caliber was introduced in 1994 and Sig just added the 9mm barrel option to the 40s&w 229 to make it a 357sig

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true but the P229 with its forged frame has to be designed for that round as the original P228 was for the 9mm.

This is not true your timeline is wrong. SIGARMS who later became Sig Sauer, Inc started production of the P229 in 40 S&W in 1992 when they moved to Exter, NH.

Again IIRC the .357 Sig was designed and introduced in 1994.

Arik beat me to it.
 
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true but the P229 with its forged frame has to be designed for that round as the original P228 was for the 9mm.


IIRC the 229 has a solid billet milled slide vs the 228 folded slide......giving the 229 a heavier slide.

I think the 228/229 frames are the same.....I could be wrong..... it happened once before!!!!


:D
 
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IIRC the 229 has a solid billet milled slide vs the 228 folded slide...... I think the 228/229 frames are the same.

They are have always been slightly different but the mags worked in both guns initially. Currently mags no longer interchange. The changeover date was somewhere around 2010. They started to use the 40 S&W/.357 Sig frame for 9mms around that time so they no longer will work with P228 mags.

So you are right and wrong at the same time. LOL Schrodinger's Cat the pistol mag version.
 
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That might not be so easy to do. ;) But if you think it's worth it, I'll try. :)

You'd be surprised how many ranges have them for rent. I know when I was young, dumb, stupid 12 years ago, I was a "Glock-only" fanboy until a nice guy at Cabela's pulled a P226 out of the case (brand new, basic alloy model $700), field stripped it, and showed me how beefy and well built it was, I was almost sold. Until then, I didn't even bother to look at it in a case because it couldn't be as good as a Glock.

Once I found one to rent at range, I was sold.
 
You'd be surprised how many ranges have them for rent. I know when I was young, dumb, stupid 12 years ago, I was a "Glock-only" fanboy until a nice guy at Cabela's pulled a P226 out of the case (brand new, basic alloy model $700), field stripped it, and showed me how beefy and well built it was, I was almost sold. Until then, I didn't even bother to look at it in a case because it couldn't be as good as a Glock.

Once I found one to rent at range, I was sold.
Oh, I'd love to try one. :) Certainly none at my favorite/closest range but I'll keep an eye out. I owe a visit to a couple places (part of my endless search for pre-ban 5900-series magazines) and who knows? If I ever find one, I'll surely take the opportunity to try it. ;)
 
I think the jist of what James is saying is that since Sig designed the .357 Sig round along with Federal, and hence did a tremendous amount of in-house testing with it before release, they had the inside track on designing guns for that round and have a deeper well on their intellectual database regarding it. I don't doubt that's true.

Today, after 22 years of it being on the market, I'm sure other manufacturers understand it pretty darn well also, but since it wasn't initially a caliber designed around thier own guns, they probably didn't do near the R&D that Sig did. I agree that Sig realized if a P229 or P226 with a stailness slide could handle a hot .40, it could with a few tweaks handle the hot .357 Sig. I don't think other makes are unsafe, I just think with Sig's name on it they may care a bit more about it working right and having longevity.

Personally, having shot the .357 Sig through Glocks, I would prefer to have a Sig when firing off that round, which may be the second point James was making. Frankly, I think the round is simply too much for any polymer striker fired platform because I just don't think they have the robust nature of a metal framed pistol. In 22 years of being an LEO Firearms Instructor, 99% of all "kB!'s" I've seen are polymer striker fired pistols (mainly Glocks) shooting either .40's, hot .45's or .357 Sig's. And when a polymer bodied striker fired does go BOOM, it goes right through the body of the pistol, which includes the portion serving as a grip, and into the shooter's hand.

The only Sig I've seen go kB! (and a Springfield 1911A1 10mm shooting hot loads) all blew the mag out and simply cracked the wooden grips or G10 Hogues. So yeah, I'm kind of with James that if you're going to shoot .357 Sig, you might be better off with a metal gun like a Sig that, due to the weight, can eat the recoil pretty easy, won't get battered and won't de-finger you if it goes go pop.

As far as performance, I understand the new FBI protocol and why many folks believe modern 9mm's are the equal of .40's and .357's. I simply think they're wrong because their manner of scoring is overweighted in bias for penetration, creating what I believe is unecessary penetration. I've shot the "new' style rounds against the older ones (.357 Sig, .357 Mag, hot lightweight 9mm) against steel and into meat, and despite what a certain overwrought, overfunded, overtly political, unaccountable federal bureaucracy says, transferring huge amounts of energy into a potentially murderous human is critical, and penetration is secondary. The old phrases of 'energy dump' and 'energy transfer' may be semantically incorrect but the concept of using more energy dynamically through faster, lighter rounds is no theory...it's been done for over 50 years on the streets with the aforementioned rounds and I simply do not believe that the Feds and Hornady have successfully repealed the laws of physics.

My agency is going to the Critical Defense 135 gr 9mm (simply because the FBI says the 9mm is now 'best'), but it'll take a lot of street results before I carry that round in lieu of the .357 Sig, which has been stellar in belt-buckle to belt-buckle incidents with our Troopers. Yeah, folks think it was designed with car doors and windshields in mind, but it has worked remarkably well in person to person calls, also.

It's a great concept and still valid today. What is interesting is that my agency, for probably a year or two, will have both on the street, so in essence they will be measured against each other in real time. Perhaps a 9mm can be designed that can replicate the .357 Sig's performance, or even exceed it, but for today and until a lot of supporting real world data comes in, I'm sticking with those proved Gold Dots.
 
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short answer NO!

As a Sig P series fan (239, 226, 220, & others) I believe they have already peaked. When a company begins to cut corners,& make an inferior product, to compete with the lower cost market, they have begun the downward spiral. IMO Sig never came close to reaching the heights of S&W revolvers, semi's, closer.
 
I think the jist of what James is saying is that since Sig designed the .357 Sig round along with Federal, and hence did a tremendous amount of in-house testing with it before release, they had the inside track on designing guns for that round and have a deeper well on their intellectual database regarding it. I don't doubt that's true.

Today, after 22 years of it being on the market, I'm sure other manufacturers understand it pretty darn well also, but since it wasn't initially a caliber designed around thier own guns, they probably didn't do near the R&D that Sig did. I agree that Sig realized if a P229 or P226 with a stailness slide could handle a hot .40, it could with a few tweaks handle the hot .357 Sig. I don't think other makes are unsafe, I just think with Sig's name on it they may care a bit more about it working right and having longevity.

Personally, having shot the .357 Sig through Glocks, I would prefer to have a Sig when firing off that round, which may be the second point James was making. Frankly, I think the round is simply too much for any polymer striker fired platform because I just don't think they have the robust nature of a metal framed pistol. In 22 years of being an LEO Firearms Instructor, 99% of all "kB!'s" I've seen are polymer striker fired pistols (mainly Glocks) shooting either .40's, hot .45's or .357 Sig's. And when a polymer bodied striker fired does go BOOM, it goes right through the body of the pistol, which includes the portion serving as a grip, and into the shooter's hand.

The only Sig I've seen go kB! (and a Springfield 1911A1 10mm shooting hot loads) all blew the mag out and simply cracked the wooden grips or G10 Hogues. So yeah, I'm kind of with James that if you're going to shoot .357 Sig, you might be better off with a metal gun like a Sig that, due to the weight, can eat the recoil pretty easy, won't get battered and won't de-finger you if it goes go pop.

As far as performance, I understand the new FBI protocol and why many folks believe modern 9mm's are the equal of .40's and .357's. I simply think they're wrong because their manner of scoring is overweighted in bias for penetration, creating what I believe is unecessary penetration. I've shot the "new' style rounds against the older ones (.357 Sig, .357 Mag, hot lightweight 9mm) against steel and into meat, and despite what a certain overwrought, overfunded, overtly political, unaccountable federal bureaucracy says, transferring huge amounts of energy into a potentially murderous human is critical, and penetration is secondary. The old phrases of 'energy dump' and 'energy transfer' may be semantically incorrect but the concept of using more energy dynamically through faster, lighter rounds is no theory...it's been done for over 50 years on the streets with the aforementioned rounds and I simply do not believe that the Feds and Hornady have successfully repealed the laws of physics.

My agency is going to the Critical Defense 135 gr 9mm (simply because the FBI says the 9mm is now 'best'), but it'll take a lot of street results before I carry that round in lieu of the .357 Sig, which has been stellar in belt-buckle to belt-buckle incidents with our Troopers. Yeah, folks think it was designed with car doors and windshields in mind, but it has worked remarkably well in person to person calls, also.

It's a great concept and still valid today. What is interesting is that my agency, for probably a year or two, will have both on the street, so in essence they will be measured against each other in real time. Perhaps a 9mm can be designed that can replicate the .357 Sig's performance, or even exceed it, but for today and until a lot of supporting real world data comes in, I'm sticking with those proved Gold Dots.

All of your points are valid and well thought out. I cannot argue with your real world usage of the .357 Sig and it seems you fully understand why it is the right choice for you. I guess I differ from James and maybe you in that I do not believe it is the right choice in a universal sense. It certainly was not the right choice for me. I prefer 9mm and 45 ACP. IMHO there is no perfect round, gun or bullet that is the right choice for everyone.

I also agree that there are ballistic differences in 9mm +P and .357 Sig. I don't think I did and did not intend to say that they are equal. What I did say is that 9mm JHP of today are superior to the 9mm JHPs of 1994 especially at higher weights like 124gr and 147gr. They behave a lot like older 40 S&W rounds and have closed the gap enough that lots of LEOs are going back to 9mm which apparently your department is also doing. For me I shot .357 Sig just ok. I shot it better that 40 S&W but not as good as 9mm. So for me .357 Sig was not worth the trade offs like the cost and availability of ammo. The extra wear and tear on the gun. The higher cost of initial ownership etc... I tried to love it but simply didn't. Different strokes for different folks.

I agree that the kaboom issue with polymer pistols is a greater danger than in alloy guns like the P229/P226 but that is not the way I read James post. It seems like he was talking more about shootability then safety when he talked about the Sig being the perfect platform for the .357 Sig and that the .357 Sig is the perfect round for P series Sigs.

Also I believe that the .357 round was developed by Sig and Federal with the existing P series platforms in mind using the 40 S&W models as the foundation. In the end they are basically the same guns which is why the mags interchange and you can buy a replacement barrel drop it in and have a 2 caliber gun. IMHO they built the round to fit into the existing platform they did not build the platform around the .357 Sig round as James alluded to.

Its a good thing you were here to tell us what James meant to say because I clearly misunderstood him. ;) He clearly likes the .357 Sig round which is great. He just did not use accurate information to justify his love. His timeline of development of the various P series guns and the development of the .357 Sig round was off. In the end the Sig P series might be the best platform for the .357 Sig round but it does not mean the P series was built and developed for it. In the end it does not matter if he likes it and clearly he does he should shoot it to his hearts content! :D
 
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As a Sig P series fan (239, 226, 220, & others) I believe they have already peaked. When a company begins to cut corners,& make an inferior product, to compete with the lower cost market, they have begun the downward spiral. IMO Sig never came close to reaching the heights of S&W revolvers, semi's, closer.

I tend to agree with this. I do believe that Sig DA/SA guns were better than Gen 3 S&Ws but it is a matter of subjective personal preference.
 
Default Is Sig becoming the new S&W of old?
I'm not sure they are getting to be like anything. Sig is Sig. The offerings they have are the ones they always had for the most part. The 220/226/228 date back to the 70s and 80s. And they are still produced today although slightly re engineered.

Will they keep making the legacy guns? Will they stop? Only Sig know cause only they know their bottom line. They almost did once, in the mid 80s, so it's possible that in the near future they may completely stop.
I agree with Arik on this. In my uneducated opinion, Sig is like S&W during the 3rd generation, in that they make a lot of different metal-frame pistols, basically one for every size and caliber.

And unfortunately, like 3rd Gen S&W, I don't expect to see this continue very long. Most of the new contracts are now going to be the 320, polymer frame pistols. If/when the US moves away from the M9 and M11, I think Sig and Beretta will phase out their "classic" lines, and pull a S&W (the 320 etc will be the Sig version of the M&P).
A mildly troubling hint is that Sig has a 1911 in the mix. If you look, the 1911 is the only metal-frame centerfire pistol that S&W and Ruger now make; it wouldn't surprise me to see Sig follow that plan too.
 
I agree with Arik on this. In my uneducated opinion, Sig is like S&W during the 3rd generation, in that they make a lot of different metal-frame pistols, basically one for every size and caliber.

And unfortunately, like 3rd Gen S&W, I don't expect to see this continue very long. Most of the new contracts are now going to be the 320, polymer frame pistols. If/when the US moves away from the M9 and M11, I think Sig and Beretta will phase out their "classic" lines, and pull a S&W (the 320 etc will be the Sig version of the M&P).
A mildly troubling hint is that Sig has a 1911 in the mix. If you look, the 1911 is the only metal-frame centerfire pistol that S&W and Ruger now make; it wouldn't surprise me to see Sig follow that plan too.

I think they will scale them back but they have too much invested in the new manufacturing facility to scrap them entirely. I mean the just brought back the P225 sort of. The new P225A1 is sort of a frankengun. It is a mix of P239 parts and re-engineered P225 parts.

I think you will see less models being offered within each pistol line. For example they will not keep 21 models of the P226 which is what is currently on the website and that does not even include the Legion pistols.

I think they will go back to the standard P series stock guns and then the Legion series where you will see more and more production line custom type guns which have real functional differences from the standard instead of just cosmetic differences like it is now. I mean who really needs a P226 with tribal flash. :rolleyes:

I would also like to see them do more work out of the custom shop. Allow dealers to place custom orders using Legion pistols as base guns. As I said I think they are headed in two different directions.

The P320 will become the meat and potatoes and the Legion pistols will become the high end. The classic P series will just be filler but they are not ready to go the way of the dodo yet.
 
I think they will scale them back but they have too much invested in the new manufacturing facility to scrap them entirely. I mean the just brought back the P225 sort of. The new P225A1 is sort of a frankengun. It is a mix of P239 parts and re-engineered P225 parts.

I think you will see less models being offered within each pistol line. For example they will not keep 21 models of the P226 which is what is currently on the website and that does not even include the Legion pistols.

I think they will go back to the standard P series stock guns and then the Legion series where you will see more and more production line custom type guns which have real functional differences from the standard instead of just cosmetic differences like it is now. I mean who really needs a P226 with tribal flash. :rolleyes:

I would also like to see them do more work out of the custom shop. Allow dealers to place custom orders using Legion pistols as base guns. As I said I think they are headed in two different directions.

The P320 will become the meat and potatoes and the Legion pistols will become the high end. The classic P series will just be filler but they are not ready to go the way of the dodo yet.
I hope you're right. I think S&W over-compensated when they dropped the entire 39/59 lineup, they "should" have kept a base model for the non-1911 enthusiast. Probably a 59 series (fullsize double stack) available in 9 and 40, and let everything else go polymer.

Is the Legion series more of a Custom Shop equivalent, or more of a TSW equivalent?
 
All of your points are valid and well thought out. I cannot argue with your real world usage of the .357 Sig and it seems you fully understand why it is the right choice for you. I guess I differ from James and maybe you in that I do not believe it is the right choice in a universal sense. It certainly was not the right choice for me. I prefer 9mm and 45 ACP. IMHO there is no perfect round, gun or bullet that is the right choice for everyone.

Agreed!

I also agree that there are ballistic differences in 9mm +P and .357 Sig. I don't think I did and did not intend to say that they are equal. What I did say is that 9mm JHP of today are superior to the 9mm JHPs of 1994 especially at higher weights like 124gr and 147gr. They behave a lot like older 40 S&W rounds and have closed the gap enough that lots of LEOs are going back to 9mm which apparently your department is also doing. For me I shot .357 Sig just ok. I shot it better that 40 S&W but not as good as 9mm. So for me .357 Sig was not worth the trade offs like the cost and availability of ammo. The extra wear and tear on the gun. The higher cost of initial ownership etc... I tried to love it but simply didn't. Different strokes for different folks.

Again, agreed!

I agree that the kaboom issue with polymer pistols is a greater danger than in alloy guns like the P229/P226 but that is not the way I read James post. It seems like he was talking more about shootability then safety when he talked about the Sig being the perfect platform for the .357 Sig and that the .357 Sig is the perfect round for P series Sigs.

That's where I tend to agree with him. The heavier slide and metal frame work well with that round. If a person wants to shoot the .357 Sig, I think Sig's own guns are among the best platform from which to do this.

Also I believe that the .357 round was developed by Sig and Federal with the existing P series platforms in mind using the 40 S&W models as the foundation. In the end they are basically the same guns which is why the mags interchange and you can buy a replacement barrel drop it in and have a 2 caliber gun. IMHO they built the round to fit into the existing platform they did not build the platform around the .357 Sig round as James alluded to.

I'm betting there was a bit more R&D than simply making a drop-in design.... 40 S&W runs about 35K psi and 357 Sig's run around 40K psi. I think their faster pulse and/or frequency along with the added pressure probably were heavily investigated and tested before the simple barrel swap was finalized, although I'm also willing to bet that was a design goal since the forty was very popular in the early to mid 90's and the forty is the parent cartridge to the .357.

Its a good thing you were here to tell us what James meant to say because I clearly misunderstood him. ;) He clearly likes the .357 Sig round which is great. He just did not use accurate information to justify his love. His timeline of development of the various P series guns and the development of the .357 Sig round was off. In the end the Sig P series might be the best platform for the .357 Sig round but it does not mean the P series was built and developed for it. In the end it does not matter if he likes it and clearly he does he should shoot it to his hearts content! :D

LOL! I didn't mean to come across like I knew what anyone meant or put words in their mouth, I apologize if I did. I just read what he wrote and I though his points on shootability and Sig's probably greater expertise in developing and sustaining their own proprietary round were valid. Like him, I have a strong affinity for that round due to its great street record and, admittedly since my agency gives it to me, it has huge a affordability advantage...free!:D

But in the end, whatever one can shoot accurately, quickly and with spot on follow up shots, go with it. As an FI I once new used to say "Your hide, your choice."
 
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I hope you're right. I think S&W over-compensated when they dropped the entire 39/59 lineup, they "should" have kept a base model for the non-1911 enthusiast. Probably a 59 series (fullsize double stack) available in 9 and 40, and let everything else go polymer.

Is the Legion series more of a Custom Shop equivalent, or more of a TSW equivalent?

I am not as versed in S&W history as Sig but hadn't the sales of the Gen 3 guns really slowed down by the time they discontinued them? Sig is still moving a lot of P series metal.

The Legions are sort of in between. They are not full custom shop guns but the triggers, sights and ignition parts are all upgraded. Triggers were designed by Bruce Gray IIRC. The frames are different and they have a unique beavertail and frame relieved undercut trigger guard like the X-5. To my eyes they are more like S&W performance center guns than the TSW.
 
I am not as versed in S&W history as Sig but hadn't the sales of the Gen 3 guns really slowed down by the time they discontinued them? Sig is still moving a lot of P series metal.

The Legions are sort of in between. They are not full custom shop guns but the triggers, sights and ignition parts are all upgraded. Triggers were designed by Bruce Gray IIRC. The frames are different and they have a unique beavertail and frame relieved undercut trigger guard like the X-5. To my eyes they are more like S&W performance center guns than the TSW.
I think that part of it was that Sig managed to hold onto some Gov contracts. I still see them in holsters here and there and as far as I know Secret Service still uses them along with the military. Along with that they are still used around the world in other militaries, unlike S&W. I know my state police went to Sig 227 from G21 but for other reasons

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The p229 was designed to handle both the added pressures of using the 40 cal and .357 Sig bullets. The p228 could not have handled this without a stiffer spring requiring a harder slide pull.

Now regardless if it was designed specifically for the 40 cal or the .357 Sig, the P229 was the first gun that could handle the added pressures of those rounds. The .357 Sig cartridge was developed in this same time frame and the round was developed to give a semi auto pistol the power of the .357 magnum revolver in a semi auto pistol with a lot more ammo capacity.

Wiley Capp with shooter's magazine actually got 80 fps quicker bullets out of the Sig shooting .357 Sigs than he did out of a Smith revolver shooting 357 magnums both at 125 grain. Now, I did not make that up it is in the magazine article but that is enough to prove that the Sig round can achieve the velocity and penetration of a much bigger cartridge such as the 40 and 357 mag.

That was the goal of the gun and regardless if it was strictly designed for the 40 cal and then Sig developed the .357 round for it or if the round was in R&D and they built the gun to handle the pressures. Either way, most every one that owns the Sig in p229 do so for the .357 Sig stigma not to shoot 40 cal bullets out of it.

I think a better argument against the pistol would be the cost of ammunition which is more than the 9mm, and which you added comments to represent. I once bought two boxes of .357 Remington hollow points which was mislabeled at FMJs for 20 bucks a box. That was a good day.
 
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The p229 was designed to handle both the added pressures of using the 40 cal and .357 Sig bullets. The p228 could not have handled this without a stiffer spring requiring a harder slide pull.

Now regardless if it was designed specifically for the 40 cal or the .357 Sig, the P229 was the first gun that could handle the added pressures of those rounds. The .357 Sig cartridge was developed in this same time frame and the round was developed to give a semi auto pistol the power of the .357 magnum revolver in a semi auto pistol with a lot more ammo capacity.

Wiley Capp with shooter's magazine actually got 80 fps quicker bullets out of the Sig shooting .357 Sigs than he did out of a Smith revolver shooting 357 magnums both at 125 grain. Now, I did not make that up it is in the magazine article but that is enough to prove that the Sig round can achieve the velocity and penetration of a much bigger cartridge such as the 40 and 357 mag.

That was the goal of the gun and regardless if it was strictly designed for the 40 cal and then Sig developed the .357 round for it or if the round was in R&D and they built the gun to handle the pressures. Either way, most every one that owns the Sig in p229 do so for the .357 Sig stigma not to shoot 40 cal bullets out of it.

I think a better argument against the pistol would be the cost of ammunition which is more than the 9mm.

More than just the 9. It's more than the 40 or 45 at roughly 40 cents a round before shipping or $20/box on avg for range ammo. 40S&W is around $13 and 45 is around $15 a box.

Most people I know buy the 229 to shot 40. No one I know or even have heard in gun stores specifically want the 357. All the Sig 357 that I see in trades (and other 357sig chambered handguns) linger on the shelves for a long time.
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Yes energy is necessary and needed but so is penetration. Not everyone is 150 lbs and stands with their chest in full view facing you. This was actually the problem with why everyone ran to the 40 after the Miami shootout. A 9mm didn't penetrate one of the shooters deep enough. It stopped an inch from his heart after going through his hand first. Had something not been in the way there would have been less resistance and moat likely (obviously there is no way to know 100%) that it would have hit his heart and stopped him much faster.

Looking at Speer's balistics table
40s&w 165gr has 1150fps and 484ft-lbs at the muzzle. At 50 yards it has 1042fps and 398ft-lbs.

Meanwhile their 357sig has
1350fps and 506 ft-lbs at the muzzle and 1184fps with 389ft-lbs at 50 yards.

They are not that fad apart
 
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More than just the 9. It's more than the 40 or 45 at roughly 40 cents a round before shipping or $20/box on avg for range ammo. 40S&W is around $13 and 45 is around $15 a box.

Most people I know buy the 229 to shot 40. No one I know or even have heard in gun stores specifically want the 357. All the Sig 357 that I see in trades (and other 357sig chambered handguns) linger on the shelves for a long time.
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Yes energy is necessary and needed but so is penetration. Not everyone is 150 lbs and stands with their chest in full view facing you. This was actually the problem with why everyone ran to the 40 after the Miami shootout. A 9mm didn't penetrate one of the shooters deep enough. It stopped an inch from his heart after going through his hand first. Had something not been in the way there would have been less resistance and moat likely (obviously there is no way to know 100%) that it would have hit his heart and stopped him much faster


The 10 mm round was developed after that, and I would imagine but do not know that they price the .357 Sig rounds like that because they do not want many avid shooters messing with the round. It is advantageous for them to keep the majority of them for LEOs/ governmental use only that way it makes it more easy to identify the bullets.

I understand the affordability argument and I do not range shoot the p229 a lot mostly use 9mms and 40s for that. However, in a situation where my life depended on it, then you bet I am using the Sig .357. No doubt.
 
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