Ed Fowler
Member
Good old days!
Smith & Wesson slapper - blackjack
- Thread starter SAFireman
- Start date
Had a buddy who carried a sap. He told me he started to arrest a young offender in his yard. The youngster thought it was a good idea to fight with my buddy. The kid kept yelling when getting whacked. Once the offender was cuffed, the father came out. The kid said, "Dad, he hit me with one of those saps!" The father said, "Let that be a lesson, cops don't fight fair!" I preferred a night stick. I found it more versatile. One time when working traffic after a big event, a driver (probably half lit) thought that it would be a good idea to taunt me by creeping up with his car when I told him to stop. He was laughing until, I took out my Maglite and creased his hood. From then on he obeyed my signals.
Ed Fowler
Member
The night stick was also my favorite, the sap came in useful when you got into it unexpectedly and did not have the night stick. The Iron Claw was very useful when folks just laid down and while other cops were carrying prisoners to the transport vehicles the ones I arrested were very willing to get up and follow me.
Very few knew what the Iron Claw was in the 60's.
Very few knew what the Iron Claw was in the 60's.
StakeOut
US Veteran
Boy you guys were mean.
I only handed out lollipops.
I only handed out lollipops.
kbm6893
Member
My uncle gave me his blackjack when I came on the job. They were long outlawed by then so I never carried it. I can't imagine how many skulls he cracked with it. When they were gone guys just used their coco bolo nightsticks more. Hitting somebody with one was referred to as a "wood shampoo".
And I am convinced that little slit pocket on the back right side of uniform pants was for those saps and Blackjacks. No other reason for them to be there.
I work in a high school law enforcement program now. I sometimes get the kids attention by whacking that blackjack on the desk. Sounds like a gunshot going off. They love it.
And I am convinced that little slit pocket on the back right side of uniform pants was for those saps and Blackjacks. No other reason for them to be there.
I work in a high school law enforcement program now. I sometimes get the kids attention by whacking that blackjack on the desk. Sounds like a gunshot going off. They love it.
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Mal Cap
Member
Blackjacks, saps are outlawed by the New York State Penal Law for the general public - Felony. We're carried a few decades back and against NYCPD Policy. Pockets in the pants were also for other accessories, flashlight, etc., and maybe a "flute."
Ed Fowler
Member
You have got to love it when politicians tell both the people and law enforcement how to fight.
At least we still have lethal force in most places.
At least we still have lethal force in most places.
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Heck, everything is outlawed in NYC. Just saying that makes me thirsty for a "Big Gulp"!
I hate to do this, this thread is so much fun, and I always enjoy cop stories, but, to be fair, for Texans reading this:
That is followed by this:
That's it, in pertinent part. The handgun rules are a whole different subject but I assure you that carrying a sap or a blackjack, well, IF I DID IT, would be a crime. Badges change things, that's for sure, but I don't have one of those.
When my twin and I were very young and lived far away from the Great State of Texas our dad gave us professional, US issue nightsticks. Where he got them I have no idea. Why he gave them to little boys I have no idea nor do I know if they were lawful for us to have at the time or at anytime.
At any rate, some time thereafter his business partner wanted them so we gave them up with a promise of replacement. They were very nice looking - the wood was "blonde" in color. Some time after that Dad sure enough replaced them with mahogany colored night sticks that were otherwise exactly the same, right down to the "US" on the butt-cap (it's all one piece but that's the only term I can think of for that spot).
I still have mine and I'm very proud of it; about 25 years ago I acquired a professional leather "thong" for it, had it tied on exactly as the police always did, and no, I never did learn to twirl it, but it hangs on my bed post to this very day. If I run out of ammunition I can still be VERY effective!
COPS, SAPS, BLACKJACKS, NIGHTSTICKS. Fun thread; thanks, y'all!
Oh, I have a 4 battery Maglite nearby, too.
That is followed by this:
That's it, in pertinent part. The handgun rules are a whole different subject but I assure you that carrying a sap or a blackjack, well, IF I DID IT, would be a crime. Badges change things, that's for sure, but I don't have one of those.
When my twin and I were very young and lived far away from the Great State of Texas our dad gave us professional, US issue nightsticks. Where he got them I have no idea. Why he gave them to little boys I have no idea nor do I know if they were lawful for us to have at the time or at anytime.
At any rate, some time thereafter his business partner wanted them so we gave them up with a promise of replacement. They were very nice looking - the wood was "blonde" in color. Some time after that Dad sure enough replaced them with mahogany colored night sticks that were otherwise exactly the same, right down to the "US" on the butt-cap (it's all one piece but that's the only term I can think of for that spot).
I still have mine and I'm very proud of it; about 25 years ago I acquired a professional leather "thong" for it, had it tied on exactly as the police always did, and no, I never did learn to twirl it, but it hangs on my bed post to this very day. If I run out of ammunition I can still be VERY effective!
COPS, SAPS, BLACKJACKS, NIGHTSTICKS. Fun thread; thanks, y'all!
Oh, I have a 4 battery Maglite nearby, too.
Ed Fowler
Member
A true artist with a baton was truly a wonder to behold, they were a form of recreation, something to play with while time was plentiful. They were far from lethal force and every dog knows what a stick in a man's hand can do.
Engine49guy
Member
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PnnrLPBcWY[/ame]
Seven High
Member
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There are saps offered for sale on police equipment websites,so I am guessing that they are still allowed at some law enforcement agencies.
hangnoose
Member
A LOST ART
Swinging the wood billies by the wrist strap while walking a beat whistling, the good ol-days. Anyone remember officer Joe Bolten from NY who came on before the 3 stooges? Those side pockets may have been used later for toilet plungers. One of my fondest memories & the sweetest music was when 2 mounted NYPD officers came galloping up on a gang about to mess up me and 3 buds in central park swinging those long riot clubs like some Bruce Lee movie on horseback and the sound of wood hitting skull. I have a short 10 1/2" lead filled wood, extremely well used but the handle is cracked. The only thing I got to use it on was bluefish & ice. I still keep it in the kitchen for ice & grinding up herbs. I hears the Bobbies across the pond were pretty good with them & could throw one around a corner.
Swinging the wood billies by the wrist strap while walking a beat whistling, the good ol-days. Anyone remember officer Joe Bolten from NY who came on before the 3 stooges? Those side pockets may have been used later for toilet plungers. One of my fondest memories & the sweetest music was when 2 mounted NYPD officers came galloping up on a gang about to mess up me and 3 buds in central park swinging those long riot clubs like some Bruce Lee movie on horseback and the sound of wood hitting skull. I have a short 10 1/2" lead filled wood, extremely well used but the handle is cracked. The only thing I got to use it on was bluefish & ice. I still keep it in the kitchen for ice & grinding up herbs. I hears the Bobbies across the pond were pretty good with them & could throw one around a corner.
kbm6893
Member
I never had the wooden night stick. I had the plastic PR24 side handle baton. I remember in the academy doing the stupid drills with it. Holding it by the side handle and using it like a tonfa to block and the swinging it by the handle at the bag. In reality, they were held by the bottom and swung like a bat.
But when the wooden ones were issued, rookies would spend hours on their days off learning to twirl it, not to mention twirling it all day at work. Guys would bang them on the concrete and thrown them against walls to scar them up and make them look more used.
All I know is, when I was a kid in Brooklyn, all it took was ONE cop walking the best twirling that baton to clear an entire corner or park of some serious looking dudes. They knew he would not hesitate to crack their skulls, and unlike today, he wouldn't be crucified for doing so.
If you ever watch the "Maniac Cop" series of films(cheesy, I know), the Maniac Cop brought back from the dead walks the beat expertly twirling his baton with his Model 10 at his side. Very retro. Hell, I remember the days that cops had a simple belt, holster and gun, dump pouches, stick, and cuff case. Guys now are so loaded down with gear it's amazing they can walk.
But when the wooden ones were issued, rookies would spend hours on their days off learning to twirl it, not to mention twirling it all day at work. Guys would bang them on the concrete and thrown them against walls to scar them up and make them look more used.
All I know is, when I was a kid in Brooklyn, all it took was ONE cop walking the best twirling that baton to clear an entire corner or park of some serious looking dudes. They knew he would not hesitate to crack their skulls, and unlike today, he wouldn't be crucified for doing so.
If you ever watch the "Maniac Cop" series of films(cheesy, I know), the Maniac Cop brought back from the dead walks the beat expertly twirling his baton with his Model 10 at his side. Very retro. Hell, I remember the days that cops had a simple belt, holster and gun, dump pouches, stick, and cuff case. Guys now are so loaded down with gear it's amazing they can walk.
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stykshooter
Member
This thread really takes me back.
When I first came on board they didn't have a lot of the field training protocol that they do now. I was taken to a closet off of the evidence room and we searched through used uniforms until I found a couple that were a close enough fit for me to go to the academy the following Monday. They also gave me a large paper grocery bag full of leather and a box with a S & W model 66 and told me to show up at 8:00 the following morning.
I washed and pressed those uniforms that night and noticed this small pocket down the back of my right pant leg. I remember spending a long time trying to figure out how the buckle on the Sam Brown belt worked. As I got dressed the following morning the only guidance I had as to where things go was watching Adam 12. I figured that little pocket must be there to put the end of your night stick in so it didn't swing around. Most of you guys who were old time cops know how my first day went when I walked in with my night stick hanging from the ring and the end tucked in that sap pocket... and my dump pouches were on the belt upside down. As I was one of only two in a 100 man department at the time that had a college degree, the old guys were pretty brutal on the smart "college kid".
An older Lt. opened his desk drawer and gave me my S & W sap. Some of the older guys could pop a guy over the temple and put it back in the pocket and catch them before they could hit the ground. I remember a non cooperate D.U.I. driver one night with his hands wrapped around the steering wheel refusing to exit the vehicle. My older training officer never said a word, just walked up and rapped him across the knuckles with his sap. Pretty sure there were several broken bones in his hand when I cuffed him.
As an aside, the night sticks that we were issued were made of hickory and had flutes like a rifle barrel running down the full length. They also had a stainless steel ball on the handle end as a "rib spreader". Some of the more devastating wounds that I saw back then were from those night sticks. They would cut you just like a sword with those flutes.
When I first came on board they didn't have a lot of the field training protocol that they do now. I was taken to a closet off of the evidence room and we searched through used uniforms until I found a couple that were a close enough fit for me to go to the academy the following Monday. They also gave me a large paper grocery bag full of leather and a box with a S & W model 66 and told me to show up at 8:00 the following morning.
I washed and pressed those uniforms that night and noticed this small pocket down the back of my right pant leg. I remember spending a long time trying to figure out how the buckle on the Sam Brown belt worked. As I got dressed the following morning the only guidance I had as to where things go was watching Adam 12. I figured that little pocket must be there to put the end of your night stick in so it didn't swing around. Most of you guys who were old time cops know how my first day went when I walked in with my night stick hanging from the ring and the end tucked in that sap pocket... and my dump pouches were on the belt upside down. As I was one of only two in a 100 man department at the time that had a college degree, the old guys were pretty brutal on the smart "college kid".
An older Lt. opened his desk drawer and gave me my S & W sap. Some of the older guys could pop a guy over the temple and put it back in the pocket and catch them before they could hit the ground. I remember a non cooperate D.U.I. driver one night with his hands wrapped around the steering wheel refusing to exit the vehicle. My older training officer never said a word, just walked up and rapped him across the knuckles with his sap. Pretty sure there were several broken bones in his hand when I cuffed him.
As an aside, the night sticks that we were issued were made of hickory and had flutes like a rifle barrel running down the full length. They also had a stainless steel ball on the handle end as a "rib spreader". Some of the more devastating wounds that I saw back then were from those night sticks. They would cut you just like a sword with those flutes.
Older brother had drinking problem years ago.. He was on first name basis with the local DPS Trooper. One night brother met the sap because of his mouth. His nose is a bit to the right these days. He still speaks of the Trooper with a smile. From the stories the Trooper was a fine gentleman.
Ed Fowler
Member
The chief of police in our small town had a wooden arm, used it very proficiently and was afraid of absolutely nothing.
This was in the old days, they did not even have a radio, just a light over the telephone company, when it was on they would go to a phone and the operator would give them the message.
He knew every kid by name, who was new to town, newcomers met him first, who was welcome who was not. When you had a problem you could go to him and talk anytime.
Your thoughts brought back many memories of good times with our police. In those days they were our police and many would not hesitate to help them when they needed help.
I have a description of "The Town Cop" by Steinbeck, will try to find it and post it later.
This was in the old days, they did not even have a radio, just a light over the telephone company, when it was on they would go to a phone and the operator would give them the message.
He knew every kid by name, who was new to town, newcomers met him first, who was welcome who was not. When you had a problem you could go to him and talk anytime.
Your thoughts brought back many memories of good times with our police. In those days they were our police and many would not hesitate to help them when they needed help.
I have a description of "The Town Cop" by Steinbeck, will try to find it and post it later.
I served 24 years in a 25,000 college town in N MO from 78-2002. Had a sap pocket and carried a sap. It sits atop a case of my old badges etc. I took it down to look at it after looking at his thread. It's a Bucheimer and is 11 inches long. I think they called it the big John or long john?
Never hit anyone in the head but will attest if some one grabs onto something / someone and doesn't want to let go, a shot on the back of the hand will convince them to let go' post haste.
Never hit anyone in the head but will attest if some one grabs onto something / someone and doesn't want to let go, a shot on the back of the hand will convince them to let go' post haste.
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