What do I need to know to buy a Sport II

[vortex360]

Thanks for the suggestions ..

Let me add that I am not exactly a newbe in shooting a rifle as I was good enough to make a base rifle club while in the Air Force so have shot rifles with open sights before .. but that was many moons ago and haven't kept up with shooting rifles ..

Not planning on loading it down with accessories to start with and am not in a big rush to acquire one so will look for a good price and would like to buy locally if I can find a decent price .. Model 10202 are going for around 650 to 700 from what I am seeing right now .. GB has them for 649 today .. will see what kind of deal my LGS will make me .. they have a variety of different makes of AR 15's ..

I asked for the Sport 2 for $600 at our local mega showroom dealership and the employee told me he could do $530. I love that weapon more than my 1911 and BG .380. I like it exactly the way it is and wouldn't change anything.

 

[C J]

My point is that there are things that 1/9 twist rifles like the Sport II are not good at and that if you are looking to shoot longer ranges which a 16" rifle is more than capable of the 1/9 twist will be a limiter. You are reinforcing my point that the Sport II is a basic entry level rifle geared toward people who are basically plinking.

First I never said there was no reason for upgrading to a more expensive rifle. Clearly some rifles are built to do things the Sport just won't do. But I believe it takes quite a bit of money to get a lot better quality. The Sport I have is very accurate. And I actually like the twist rate. The thing about 1:7 barrels is that they sometimes won't stabilize the common 55 gr. bullets you see in .223/5.56. I have a 1:9 bolt action .223 that will shoot 75 gr. bullets very well and it does it out to 500 yards. I haven't had the chance to shoot it any farther than that so I don't know how well it will stabilize a bullet beyond that distance. It will also stabilize a 50 gr. bullet which just like a 77 gr. bullet is out of the zone for a 1:9 barrel a 50 gr. bullet is out of the range of a 1:7 barrel. There are always trade offs in these things. I shoot 4"-5" groups at 500 yards with my bolt action .223 consistently with 75 gr. bullets. That's the weight it likes the best actually. But the very best group I ever shot was with 52 gr. bullets.

I see a lot of comments about the Sport not being a battle rifle. If you're talking about living in a sand pit or a jungle for an extended period that's likely true. That's where better build quality really shines through - under adverse conditions. But any rifle that will cut blades of grass in two at 30 yards consistently is plenty good enough for what most people will use their AR for - home protection. I don't expect to live in the grunge with it for months. If I was going to do that I'd take my battle proven rifle - my SKS. That thing will keep working in the worst conditions and I paid a whopping $100 for mine. Yeah I've had it a while. It's never failed to fire because of a fault with the rifle and I swapped it over to take detachable mags the first day I bought it. There are certainly things that are better about the AR platform but that SKS is accurate enough for a battle rifle (most battles are fought at close range) and it is as durable and reliable as they come in the worst conditions. That fact was proven in Vietnam where they were put through very bad treatment by the enemy but they still kept working. The AK wasn't the only weapon used by the bad guys in that war.

I would love to have a 600 yard shooter in an AR but IMO that's likely going to cost about 3 times what I paid for my Sport. Get one that will do it reliably in adverse conditions and you'll need to add on some more money. If I wanted to spend that much I'd probably get an Accuracy International rifle.

 

[cyphertext]

Like I said IMHO YMMV. You seem to like to argue for the Sport II as the catch all answer to every AR15 problem. Clearly you like it. I think it is a great starter AR15 but honestly I can buy and upper and a lower from 10 different places for less and assemble a better rifle. Again IMHO. There is no need to call me arrogant. That is an ad homiem which only serves to distract from the actually statements I have made. You misrepresent what I have said in an attmept to prove you point.

The arrogance comes from the "plinker" comments. While you may be able to buy a part gun for the same money, some like a factory built gun, with warranty...especially for their first AR. I don't think the Sport II is the best AR available, but it is the one the OP asked about. And for the roles that the OP listed, it would serve quite well. I don't believe I have misrepresented you, I actually quoted you.

I already addressed the law of diminishing returns and the subjective nature of a more expensive rifle. For you the BCM does not make sense. For others the stock will fit them better. The brake-comp will allow them to shoot faster and more accurately. Some people will like the KMR rail and the reduction in weight that it brings. Some will appreciate that the gun will be blemish free and will exhibit better fit and finish. For some that is worth $$$ for others it is not, the value is subjective.

I agree that my BCM cost more and has more features... but for basic function, going bang and hitting the target where I aim, it has been a wash. The BCM has not shown to be any more or less reliable than my Sport, nor more accurate.

Standing or sitting at a bench on a square range I agree the differences might not be worth it. For other it might. What if you want a 14.5" barrel? What it that is your think because of its portability is it worth more $$$$ to get that over a S&W Sport II? Clearly for you it might not be but for others it might be. Again the law of diminishing returns is in play and the subjective value of the upgrade cannot be universally applied. I cannot tell you universally that it is worth the coin but by the same token you cannot universally tell me it isn't. The difference between my logic and yours is that I have not claimed in any sense that my subjective preferences are universal.

We agree more here than you may think. If you want a different configuration than what the Sport comes in, then you are usually better off buying a rifle closer to that configuration. The Sport is a basic, no frills type of carbine... but again, it is the one the OP asked about.

That again was not my intent. My intent was to point out that the Sport II as a varmint gun is a big compromise. I then made the point that if you want to do long range shooting the 1/9 will be a liability with 77gr and some 72-75gr ammo which is the prefer weight for long distance shooters. Who have again combined the two statements into a strawman in and attempt to discredit me when I have not made that argument. I have made 2 separate statements. Since there is confusion let me clarify.

1. The Sport II is not a dedicate varmint gun and in that role if one desires a rifle to fill that roll it might not be the best tool for the job.

2. If you want to shoot long distance with match grade accuracy beyond 500 yards the 1/9 twist of the Sport II will be a liability because most shooters looking to achieve that goal use 77gr ammo to accomplish the task.

I don't see the Sport as such a compromise for varmint hunting. Again I ask, do you hunt? I do, and my Sport is my favorite rifle for hogs.

I see the Sport, or any AR for that matter, being a compromise for long distance shooting. Sure, some folks use them, but there are better choices. I can get more accuracy from a bolt gun for less money than you get from a mil-spec AR. And again, the OP stated 300 yards or less, perfectly within the capability of the Sport II.

You have 1* so if you are comfortable with the Sport II as a duty gun or a home defense gun then who am I to tell you different. I have not said that it cannot function in that role what I have said is that it would not be my choice. I even went as far as to say if that was my "issued" gun I could make it work but on my dime it would not be and it is not my first choice. Again we seem to be at a point of confusion where I have stated a subjective opinion and you have taken it as universal fact. Maybe I have not been clear enough. Maybe you just like to debate in this manner which is fine. I enjoy a good debate as long as we do not resort to logically fallacies in order to prove our points.

I guess the way you word this comes off to me as saying that the Sport is not adequate for these roles... not that you prefer another weapon, but that the Sport would fail to meet the needs of this role.

In the end people must make their own choices. The Sport II is IMHO a good rifle for the price point

We should just end this here....

I firmly believe that Sport II is priced, then designed and built appeal to the plinking community.

If by "plinking community", you mean the civilian market, then I agree with you. And again, this is where I am seeing arrogance. Might as well call Sport owners "dirt clod shooters"...

 

[jimbo728]

If my workplace was a Patrol Cruiser, I would be disappointed if my
Sport 1 wasnt riding with me as a Patrol rifle.
It does everything very well and I would trust my hide with it anyday.
Jim

 

[JaPes]

Will use the rifle for target practice mainly

The range I belong to has a 100/200/300 yard range plus another 100 yard range too ..

so target practice out that far and maybe an occasional coyote hunt .. and maybe a future hog hunt in Texas

Would maybe a red dot of some kind or is a varmint scope a better set up ??

Sounds like you need a turret adjustable scope not a red dot.

What accessories will I need

In order of my priority:

1. Basic cleaning kit. Something to either pull or push patches, brushes through the bore. An AR-chamber brush. Solvent & lube. I also highly recommend the CAT-M4 bolt & carrier cleaning tool. See the cleaning tool sticky thread.

2. A case. You'll need to transport your rifle.

3. Ammunition. Buy a case of Wolf Gold for plinking and practice.

4. Extra magazines. I've not known a Sport to be magazine picky. I own Magpul mags and D&H aluminum mags w/magpul followers.

5. As I mentioned before, for your purpose of use you'll want to mount a turret adjustable scope & rings. To answer the next question that is always asked, do not worry about the front sight post. It blurs out under magnification. You won't notice it.

6. Trigger upgrade. There is nothing wrong with the stock combat trigger, but a decent two stage trigger makes a world of difference. You can go all-in with a Geissele trigger or you can go to relatively affordable such as a Rock River Arms 2-stage varmint trigger.

7. After shooting with 5 & 6 and you've confirmed that you're shooting to the best of your ability and you want to try to eke out just a little more precision and accuracy potential, free float the handguard. There are drop in setups that are compatible with a front sight post. There are some that require more work.​

Put some thought into points #6 and #7. If you even think you might want to do this, then reconsider the M&P 15-Sport II. You will most likely save $$$, time, and headaches in the long run if you purchase a rifle equipped from the factory with #6 & #7.

Be realistic about your intended purpose of use in relation to your marksmanship skill level, envision the AR-15 that matches your requirements. Go and buy a factory complete rifle equipped as many of the features you require that fits within your budget.

Take it from me, the slow AR-15 upgrade process is akin to a car salesman tricking a buyer into thinking only the monthly car payment and not the total cost of the car.

am not in a big rush to acquire one so will look for a good price and would like to buy locally if I can find a decent price

Do you like to play chess?

It's an election year, with Hillary as the Democratic candidate. The Supreme Court lost Justice Scalia. The next President will get to nominate a replacement for an evenly split pro/anti 2nd Amendment Supreme Court makeup. The recent terrorist attack in FL has stirred up gun control and anti 2nd amendment rhetoric in the main stream media and in Politics. I am of the opinion that a panic run on all firearms and ammunition is a certainty. More citizens whom are not anti-firearms but never had a reason to own one will most likely go out to buy a semi auto pistol and rifle solely because the high probability that more of our rights to bear arms will be infringed upon. They'll want to buy the modern sporting rifle that is demonized in the media: an AR-15.

I've seen cyclical panic runs during the BHO's 1st and 2nd election campaign seasons. I've ridden out the post Newtown panic run on all ammunition. Panicked individuals temporarily disrupt the balance of supply and demand. Demand is temporarily inflated, supply temporarily can not meet demand, prices rise to whatever the market will bear. Panicked people pay anything. Fear feeds the panic cycle, and more people get drawn into it. An AR-15 that once retailed $500 will sell for $900+ during a panic. A 30 round no-name aluminum magazine once retailed for $7 becomes a $100 magazine. Ammunition runs start with a depletion of the common calibers first. I saw .22lr, 9mm, .223/5.56, & .308 Win go first. Then all of a sudden 22-250 and every other caliber is gone.

I'll see whining cries of "gouging", "unfair", and calls for borderline socialist / communist redistribution of ammunition, magazines, and firearms in the name of "firearms brotherood" from the unprepared as they pay the panic induced inflated market price for firearms and ammunition because they are late to the game. The panic cycle also draws in speculators. All of a sudden the average Joe Schmo thinks of firearms as a short term investment to flip. Speculative buying on credit. Some don't sell while the panic is full swing because of greed: they think if they hold out their profit margin will exponentially increase.

This is why I'm asking if you like to play chess (and like to gamble a little bit). If you're willing to take a chance on riding out the panic and take a chance on the anti 2nd Amendment election year rhetoric not materializing into reality, you can find great deals in the 2nd quarter of 2017. Typically, the best time to buy a firearm is about 4 to 6 months after a panic cycle when supply has stabilized. Credit payments are either due or past due. There usually are a bunch of new in box "used" firearms on the racks to choose from at low prices.

I've wrapped up my firearms and ammunition purchases for 2016 and am prepared to ride out the remainder of the election year. I'm now accumulating my firearms budget up to the 2nd quarter of 2017 so that I have the option to pounce on any outstanding post-panic deal, gem, bucket list gun that may present itself.

 

[MichiganScott]

Do you like to play chess?

It's an election year, with Hillary as the Democratic candidate. The Supreme Court lost Justice Scalia. The next President will get to nominate a replacement for an evenly split pro/anti 2nd Amendment Supreme Court makeup. The recent terrorist attack in FL has stirred up gun control and anti 2nd amendment rhetoric in the main stream media and in Politics. I am of the opinion that a panic run on all firearms and ammunition is a certainty. More citizens whom are not anti-firearms but never had a reason to own one will most likely go out to buy a semi auto pistol and rifle solely because the high probability that more of our rights to bear arms will be infringed upon. They'll want to buy the modern sporting rifle that is demonized in the media: an AR-15.

I've seen cyclical panic runs during the BHO's 1st and 2nd election campaign seasons. I've ridden out the post Newtown panic run on all ammunition. Panicked individuals temporarily disrupt the balance of supply and demand. Demand is temporarily inflated, supply temporarily can not meet demand, prices rise to whatever the market will bear. Panicked people pay anything. Fear feeds the panic cycle, and more people get drawn into it. An AR-15 that once retailed $500 will sell for $900+ during a panic. A 30 round no-name aluminum magazine once retailed for $7 becomes a $100 magazine. Ammunition runs start with a depletion of the common calibers first. I saw .22lr, 9mm, .223/5.56, & .308 Win go first. Then all of a sudden 22-250 and every other caliber is gone.

I'll see whining cries of "gouging", "unfair", and calls for borderline socialist / communist redistribution of ammunition, magazines, and firearms in the name of "firearms brotherood" from the unprepared as they pay the panic induced inflated market price for firearms and ammunition because they are late to the game. The panic cycle also draws in speculators. All of a sudden the average Joe Schmo thinks of firearms as a short term investment to flip. Speculative buying on credit. Some don't sell while the panic is full swing because of greed: they think if they hold out their profit margin will exponentially increase.

This is why I'm asking if you like to play chess (and like to gamble a little bit). If you're willing to take a chance on riding out the panic and take a chance on the anti 2nd Amendment election year rhetoric not materializing into reality, you can find great deals in the 2nd quarter of 2017. Typically, the best time to buy a firearm is about 4 to 6 months after a panic cycle when supply has stabilized. Credit payments are either due or past due. There usually are a bunch of new in box "used" firearms on the racks to choose from at low prices.

I've wrapped up my firearms and ammunition purchases for 2016 and am prepared to ride out the remainder of the election year. I'm now accumulating my firearms budget up to the 2nd quarter of 2017 so that I have the option to pounce on any outstanding post-panic deal, gem, bucket list gun that may present itself.

Well said, particularly the part about whining and gouging.

 

[Kadonny]

Sounds like you need a turret adjustable scope not a red dot.



In order of my priority:

1. Basic cleaning kit. Something to either pull or push patches, brushes through the bore. An AR-chamber brush. Solvent & lube. I also highly recommend the CAT-M4 bolt & carrier cleaning tool. See the cleaning tool sticky thread.

2. A case. You'll need to transport your rifle.

3. Ammunition. Buy a case of Wolf Gold for plinking and practice.

4. Extra magazines. I've not known a Sport to be magazine picky. I own Magpul mags and D&H aluminum mags w/magpul followers.

5. As I mentioned before, for your purpose of use you'll want to mount a turret adjustable scope & rings. To answer the next question that is always asked, do not worry about the front sight post. It blurs out under magnification. You won't notice it.

6. Trigger upgrade. There is nothing wrong with the stock combat trigger, but a decent two stage trigger makes a world of difference. You can go all-in with a Geissele trigger or you can go to relatively affordable such as a Rock River Arms 2-stage varmint trigger.

7. After shooting with 5 & 6 and you've confirmed that you're shooting to the best of your ability and you want to try to eke out just a little more precision and accuracy potential, free float the handguard. There are drop in setups that are compatible with a front sight post. There are some that require more work.​

Put some thought into points #6 and #7. If you even think you might want to do this, then reconsider the M&P 15-Sport II. You will most likely save $$$, time, and headaches in the long run if you purchase a rifle equipped from the factory with #6 & #7.

Be realistic about your intended purpose of use in relation to your marksmanship skill level, envision the AR-15 that matches your requirements. Go and buy a factory complete rifle equipped as many of the features you require that fits within your budget.

Take it from me, the slow AR-15 upgrade process is akin to a car salesman tricking a buyer into thinking only the monthly car payment and not the total cost of the car.



Do you like to play chess?

It's an election year, with Hillary as the Democratic candidate. The Supreme Court lost Justice Scalia. The next President will get to nominate a replacement for an evenly split pro/anti 2nd Amendment Supreme Court makeup. The recent terrorist attack in FL has stirred up gun control and anti 2nd amendment rhetoric in the main stream media and in Politics. I am of the opinion that a panic run on all firearms and ammunition is a certainty. More citizens whom are not anti-firearms but never had a reason to own one will most likely go out to buy a semi auto pistol and rifle solely because the high probability that more of our rights to bear arms will be infringed upon. They'll want to buy the modern sporting rifle that is demonized in the media: an AR-15.

I've seen cyclical panic runs during the BHO's 1st and 2nd election campaign seasons. I've ridden out the post Newtown panic run on all ammunition. Panicked individuals temporarily disrupt the balance of supply and demand. Demand is temporarily inflated, supply temporarily can not meet demand, prices rise to whatever the market will bear. Panicked people pay anything. Fear feeds the panic cycle, and more people get drawn into it. An AR-15 that once retailed $500 will sell for $900+ during a panic. A 30 round no-name aluminum magazine once retailed for $7 becomes a $100 magazine. Ammunition runs start with a depletion of the common calibers first. I saw .22lr, 9mm, .223/5.56, & .308 Win go first. Then all of a sudden 22-250 and every other caliber is gone.

I'll see whining cries of "gouging", "unfair", and calls for borderline socialist / communist redistribution of ammunition, magazines, and firearms in the name of "firearms brotherood" from the unprepared as they pay the panic induced inflated market price for firearms and ammunition because they are late to the game. The panic cycle also draws in speculators. All of a sudden the average Joe Schmo thinks of firearms as a short term investment to flip. Speculative buying on credit. Some don't sell while the panic is full swing because of greed: they think if they hold out their profit margin will exponentially increase.

This is why I'm asking if you like to play chess (and like to gamble a little bit). If you're willing to take a chance on riding out the panic and take a chance on the anti 2nd Amendment election year rhetoric not materializing into reality, you can find great deals in the 2nd quarter of 2017. Typically, the best time to buy a firearm is about 4 to 6 months after a panic cycle when supply has stabilized. Credit payments are either due or past due. There usually are a bunch of new in box "used" firearms on the racks to choose from at low prices.

I've wrapped up my firearms and ammunition purchases for 2016 and am prepared to ride out the remainder of the election year. I'm now accumulating my firearms budget up to the 2nd quarter of 2017 so that I have the option to pounce on any outstanding post-panic deal, gem, bucket list gun that may present itself.

I'm with you. I've stockpiled most of my ammunition needs, have all the handguns I need/want. The only other thing I want to pick up very, very soon is another stripped lower to just "have". After that I'm good for awhile. I even finally got off my butt and picked up a supressor (or 2) early this year and got all the paperwork filed in April. Now just wait.....and wait....and wait.

 

[WVSig]

Last post for cyphertext... then I will move on.

You continue to to employ poor logic in and attempt to slander and discredit what I have said. You seem to take comments about the Sport II personally.

I have stated its a good entry level AR15 and I recommend it often. There is no dispute that S&W created the rifle to meet a price point. It is one of the lowest price AR15s from a major manufacturer on the market. It is what it is.

It is basic no fills gun which suits the needs of a lot of shooters. My use of the term "plinker" does not have the derogatory connotation that you are giving it. By "plinker" or "plinking" AR15 I am referring directly to the OPs intended use. For me a "plinker" is primary a range gun which is used in informal range shooting on a square range standing or from a bench at relatively short, under 300 yards, range. This can be shooting paper targets, steel targets, cans, bottles etc... I differentiate "plinking" from 3 gun, match shooting and tactical environments (hard use) because nothing is on the line. There are no points or competition to win and no ones life is at risk. There is nothing negative about the term as I have used it. Most of my shooting is plinking. What the OP describes to me is "plinking" Clearly YMMV.

I personally would not use it for a defensive gun but I do not look down on those that do or would. I simply have chosen other guns for that role. That seems to stick in your craw for some reason which I do not understand.

Anyway to the OP I hope you get the rifle you want at a price you think is reasonable. I like a lot of JaPes advice.

 

[C J]

I personally would not use it for a defensive gun but I do not look down on those that do or would.

I agree with most of your points including the definition of what a plinker is. But I don't agree that the Sport is inadequate for defense. It fires every time I pull the trigger and it's accurate. What else is there?

I do think some take the work "plinking" to mean shooting at pop cans and dirt clods. Heck that's the biggest part of what I do and it is how I learned to shoot. I shoot some competitions and I've done well at that. I won 13 of the last 15 competitions I was in. But I grew up shooting off hand, with irons, in every possible position and at whatever looked like it needed to be shot (like pop cans - they jump so well if you shoot them just right). I don't see that as a negative. I see it as a positive. I don't think of the AR as a target rifle. I've shot some that were supposed to be accurate for the platform and to be honest they were not in the same league as my bolt action. Of course that rifle was a $1400 rifle with a $400 scope on it. It's not a surprise that a semi-auto doesn't stand up to it. I know there are certainly some AR's that would do very well in comparison but they don't come cheap. I would expect to spend double what I spent on my bolt action to get a semi-auto to match it's accuracy and even then I'm not sure it would do as well. Just close. I once shot a 1" group at 500 yards with that bolt action rifle. That rifle is a varmint rifle BTW. It's way too heavy to carry around and the balance is completely off for off hand shooting. It has to be rested to shoot accurately unless someone much stronger than me is shooting it.

The AR is a fine platform but it has it's limitations like all platforms. I don't see a problem shooting minute of man at 300 yards with the one I have. My SKS will do that shooting off hand. But again I learned to shoot completely as an off hand shooter. My brothers would laugh at me all day if I tried to use a rest. It wasn't hard enough. And we shot a lot.

I just think that almost all defensive situations are going to take place within the range of the Sport. It isn't the most accurate rifle around or the most durable. But it's pretty good. I also learned to shoot with bad triggers. Good triggers are certainly better for accuracy but it's possible to shoot pretty well with a bad trigger. The gains from upgrading to a better trigger, a better barrel, etc. are going to be under the diminishing returns rule. It takes a lot more money to get a little bit better.

I don't think any of us here are that much different in our thinking. The only real point of contention I see is whether the Sport is a defensive weapon. It's not a live in the jungle, hide in the creek in the mud to ambush a patrol kind of weapon IMO. But it will knock down a pack of coyotes pretty quick. That's the strength of the platform, it's a fast target acquiring rifle and that works against a gang of bad guys too. Most of us will never face that situation anyway. Probably none of us will unless someone is active duty military. Maybe a LEO might.

I know it gets said a lot here that the Sport isn't a defensive weapon or a combat weapon. I think the requirements some have for such weapons are higher than many of us feel is needed. But that's just a matter of opinion and has little to do with the actual performance of the rifle. It just tells us what some think is needed more than anything. As always your mileage may vary. Some are just going to see those points differently.

 

[cyphertext]

Last post for cyphertext... then I will move on.

You continue to to employ poor logic in and attempt to slander and discredit what I have said. You seem to take comments about the Sport II personally.

I don't even own a Sport II, so it isn't personal... but I will question any comments about accuracy, reliability, and quality that are simply bias and opinions stated as fact.

I have stated its a good entry level AR15 and I recommend it often. There is no dispute that S&W created the rifle to meet a price point. It is one of the lowest price AR15s from a major manufacturer on the market. It is what it is.

So we agree. It is a good, basic carbine, with a lower price point from a major manufacturer that stands behind their product. Not the best, feature laden rifle, but well built and reliable.

It is basic no fills gun which suits the needs of a lot of shooters. My use of the term "plinker" does not have the derogatory connotation that you are giving it. By "plinker" or "plinking" AR15 I am referring directly to the OPs intended use. For me a "plinker" is primary a range gun which is used in informal range shooting on a square range standing or from a bench at relatively short, under 300 yards, range. This can be shooting paper targets, steel targets, cans, bottles etc... I differentiate "plinking" from 3 gun, match shooting and tactical environments (hard use) because nothing is on the line. There are no points or competition to win and no ones life is at risk. There is nothing negative about the term as I have used it. Most of my shooting is plinking. What the OP describes to me is "plinking" Clearly YMMV.

OK, I'll accept your definition...except that long range shooting can also be "plinking"... as well as three guns and match shooting. Nothing is on the line in any of these events, maybe a trophy or a few hundred dollars for most shooters. But no lives are at stake.

I personally would not use it for a defensive gun but I do not look down on those that do or would. I simply have chosen other guns for that role. That seems to stick in your craw for some reason which I do not understand.

I can agree with you here as well. In other posts, your tone or wording gave the impression that the Sport is not adequate for that role. I simply question that thinking... Well built firearm from a respected manufacturer at a price point that many can afford... not seeing where you could go wrong.

I too use other firearms for defense, but not because I do not think the Sport is adequate. I simply have more rounds through my shotgun than I do an AR, but I have been re-thinking my choices.

Anyone to the OP I hope you get the rifle you want at a price you think is reasonable. I like a lot of JaPes advice.

Agree here as well, but the "reasonable price" train may have departed the station and may not be back until this time next year.

 

[hoc9sw]

I've been up against razorback hogs on our old family farm property more than once. I came to the conclusion that I wanted a .308 for that job.

Not speaking badly of an AR-15 (I have one, a Frankengun). Just that when I'm being charged by that hog, a .308 gives me an edge.

I got my AR-15 locally, after shooting with guys at the range to see what worked for me. It is pretty basic, and I'm not likely to add many frills.

Do your hands-on research, and buy what works for you. But I would not be a chess player in this environment. Even if prices fall next year, you missed out the fun of shooting this year. I've bought and sold more than one gun. I calculate the "loss" based on how many times I had it out, and how much doing something else would have cost me.

Being a cancer guy, getting out to go to the range is a high point in my week, and almost priceless. So I buy what appeals to me, and sell / trade what doesn't work out.

 

[C J]

There's always the AR-10 for shooting hogs. The only problem is that the ones I've shot were seriously heavy for taking on a passel of hogs. I would love to fly around in a helicopter and fire an AR-10 at hogs all day (as seen on tv) but my pockets aren't nearly that deep. For hogs I'd want to go with something like a Savage Hog Hunter chambered in .308. It's slower to load obviously but much lighter to carry. And with practice a person can fire pretty quickly with a bolt gun. They designed that gun to take on feral hogs and IMO they did a good job of it. Iron sights and a 20 inch barrel make for pretty fast target acquisition and the ability to keep both eyes open for that hog coming at you from another direction. Couple that with enough knock down power for hogzilla and you're set IMO. BTW I have a Savage 110 30.06 that has had the barrel shortened and it has iron sights. I keep it scope free for the bears that roam my home area. Not that I think I'll need one but you never know.

 

[cyphertext]

I've been up against razorback hogs on our old family farm property more than once. I came to the conclusion that I wanted a .308 for that job.

Not speaking badly of an AR-15 (I have one, a Frankengun). Just that when I'm being charged by that hog, a .308 gives me an edge.

I've shot them with .17HMR, .22lr, .223, .30-30, and .30-06. Shot placement is key, with the edge going to shooting from an elevated position.

 

[hoc9sw]

I've shot them with .17HMR, .22lr, .223, .30-30, and .30-06. Shot placement is key, with the edge going to shooting from an elevated position.

Of course, goes without saying.

But I'm not hunting them. Just out working fences and the trail with other bulky tools, so I want something easy to handle, fast up, point and shoot with no time to aim. They come out of the brush just a few yards away, so it is all reaction. Couldn't carry a pistol due to local law and access over less-than-agreeable property owners' turf.

 

[DougS]

Not a dedicated varmint rifle??? I got to disagree with some of you guys. That's one of the main reason I have an AR. I only have a Strikefire ll on mine, and I'm hitting prairie dogs 150-250 yds out, and its deadly in coyote out to 400 shooting 50 grain v-max or 55 grain fMJ rounds.

 

[C J]

I only have a Strikefire ll on mine, and I'm hitting prairie dogs 150-250 yds out, and its deadly in coyote out to 400 shooting 50 grain v-max or 55 grain fMJ rounds.

My varmint rifle will hit a coyote out to 600 yards most likely. Considering how well it shoots at 500 yards I can't imagine it being a lot of difficulty to get out another 100 yards. I shoot 4"-5" groups at 500 yards with that rifle. I've shot AR's at the 500 yard distance and I never saw even one that would come close to matching what my bolt action will do. I managed to get groups down to 12"-18" or so at 175 yards with my Sport after firing maybe 10 rounds to figure the sights out at that distance. That was shooting off hand though. I wouldn't be surprised to see it kill coyotes at 300 yards but I'm not sure about 400 yet only because I just haven't tried it. Maybe it will do it but none of the other AR's I've shot would do it. Guys at the gun range near where I used to live were good about letting each other try out their rifles. I got to shoot a lot of different models because of that. That was at the 500 yard range where I spent most of my time. I can't even go back there to try out my Sport because they closed that range.

 

[DougS]

I don't doubt you. Everyone knows a bolt action is more accurate than an AR.

 

[JaPes]

I want something easy to handle, fast up, point and shoot with no time to aim.

Sounds like you're describing an AK-47.

Past and current conflicts in the Middle East prove that you don't really need to aim one. Just hold it out there and pull the trigger.

 

[Disabled1]

Last post for cyphertext... then I will move on.

You continue to to employ poor logic in and attempt to slander and discredit what I have said. You seem to take comments about the Sport II personally.

I have stated its a good entry level AR15 and I recommend it often. There is no dispute that S&W created the rifle to meet a price point. It is one of the lowest price AR15s from a major manufacturer on the market. It is what it is.

It is basic no fills gun which suits the needs of a lot of shooters. My use of the term "plinker" does not have the derogatory connotation that you are giving it. By "plinker" or "plinking" AR15 I am referring directly to the OPs intended use. For me a "plinker" is primary a range gun which is used in informal range shooting on a square range standing or from a bench at relatively short, under 300 yards, range. This can be shooting paper targets, steel targets, cans, bottles etc... I differentiate "plinking" from 3 gun, match shooting and tactical environments (hard use) because nothing is on the line. There are no points or competition to win and no ones life is at risk. There is nothing negative about the term as I have used it. Most of my shooting is plinking. What the OP describes to me is "plinking" Clearly YMMV.

I personally would not use it for a defensive gun but I do not look down on those that do or would. I simply have chosen other guns for that role. That seems to stick in your craw for some reason which I do not understand.

Anyone to the OP I hope you get the rifle you want at a price you think is reasonable. I like a lot of JaPes advice.

Don't mind "cyphertext." He did the same things to me in another post when I compared the Ruger AR-556 AR-15 to the S&W Sport 2. It's all good.

 

[cyphertext]

Don't mind "cyphertext." He did the same things to me in another post when I compared the Ruger AR-556 AR-15 to the S&W Sport 2. It's all good.

No, I told you exactly why I, and many others believe the Sport II is the better rifle over the Ruger AR-556 by discussing the actual differences... I didn't make ambiguous remarks like saying that the Ruger is only good for plinking... I guarantee you that WVSig sees that Ruger AR in the same class as the Sport II.