What do I need to know to buy a Sport II

[Whitwabit]

Need some help and a lot of info .. With the happenings of the past 6 months I feel a need to invest in an AR type of rifle .. I know nothing about them .. Have been a pistol shooter all my life and have done some bird shooting .. but no rifles in my collection ..

Have decided on a S&W Sport II .. but which model ?? maybe looking to start at model 10202

So what model of the S&W Sport II do I really want ?? Looked on Buds and there must be 10 or more different set ups .. $600 to $1000 would be my price range with all the accessories I would need added to the initial price of the rifle ..

Will use the rifle for target practice mainly .. The range I belong to has a 100/200/300 yard range plus another 100 yard range too .. so target practice out that far and maybe an occasional coyote hunt .. and maybe a future hog hunt in Texas if I can talk my niece's husband to set one up for us ..

Would maybe a red dot of some kind or is a varmint scope a better set up ?? What accessories will I need

Appreciate all the help I can get !!

 

[Ballistic147]

As far as I know the Sport II only comes in 1 model with 3 variations. They have for the communist states a CA compliant and an NJ/MA compliant models. For the rest of us in the currently free world there is just a standard model Sport II. S&W does have other versions which do cost more but the Sport II is a very good choice for an entry level AR.

From the sounds of it you're looking more for a 100 yard and beyond rifle. For this a scope is IMO the way to go. If you will be doing mostly 100 yards or less plinking or home defense a red dot or iron sights would work.

Be careful adding cool stuff to it at first. Best advice is to pick one up and shoot it as is for a while to determine what you want out of the rifle. From there you can easily add the accessories you will actually use as you go.

 

[MichiganScott]

A Sport II is a Sport II. There are a couple of different models for those shooters that have to live with restrictions on certain features, but the basic model is the 10202.

Buy the rifle and shoot the snot out of it before buying and accessories. It will be cheaper in the long run.

I have red dots on a couple of my rifles and find them adequate for 200 yards. I have low power scopes in the range of 1-4x and 1.5-5x on a couple of others and find them adequate for as far out as I wish to shoot. I find a large varmint scope out of place on a carbine with a 16 inch barrel. It upsets the balance and looks like you have a rifle mounted on the scope and not the other way around. The high power is not necessary unless you shoot tiny targets like prairie dogs.

The most important thing you need to know is currently there is a run on all things AR. If you want one you need to act now. They may be out of stock later.

 

[C J]

I had my Sport shooting 12"-18" groups at 150 yards using the iron sights before I bought a red dot. The red dot just makes picking up the target quicker, not really more accurate IMO. The irons work fine for that if you are accustomed to iron sights. I thought that was pretty good for an entry level AR with iron sights. I can shoot leaves of grass in two from 30 yards with it. There's certainly nothing wrong the accuracy on mine. Your mileage may vary of course. Not all rifles are created equal even if they have the same brand on them.

The best part about the Sport II is they can be bought for $500 or so. That makes them an especially good deal IMO. I don't see a lot of improvement in models that cost double that. Maybe I'm just too dumb to know the difference but mine shoots every time I pull the trigger and it shoots accurate. I don't know what else there is besides durability and the S&W warranty makes that point moot really. Any rifle can be be shot too much but IMO it will take quite a while to shoot the Sport too many times. Most likely the barrel might need replacing at some point if you shoot a whole lot but that's down the road pretty far.

 

[WVSig]

If it was me I would not try to buy an S&W Sport II unless you are able to get it for $500-$525 which is what they should be priced at.

Even though the shooter in Orlando did not even use an AR15 the mass shooting is creating a run on AR15 rifles.

There were lots of good rifles available in the $500-$600 range before the Orlando nightclub shooting but most have been cleared out. If it was me I would wait a month or so. People will calm down and prices will come back down before the election which may or may not cause another round of panic buying.

 

[WVSig]

I had my Sport shooting 12"-18" groups at 150 yards using the iron sights before I bought a red dot. The red dot just makes picking up the target quicker, not really more accurate IMO. The irons work fine for that if you are accustomed to iron sights. I thought that was pretty good for an entry level AR with iron sights. I can shoot leaves of grass in two from 30 yards with it. There's certainly nothing wrong the accuracy on mine. Your mileage may vary of course. Not all rifles are created equal even if they have the same brand on them.

The best part about the Sport II is they can be bought for $500 or so. That makes them an especially good deal IMO. I don't see a lot of improvement in models that cost double that. Maybe I'm just too dumb to know the difference but mine shoots every time I pull the trigger and it shoots accurate. I don't know what else there is besides durability and the S&W warranty makes that point moot really. Any rifle can be be shot too much but IMO it will take quite a while to shoot the Sport too many times. Most likely the barrel might need replacing at some point if you shoot a whole lot but that's down the road pretty far.

This is why I always suggest to new AR15 shooters to shoot about 1000 rounds with iron sights. This allows you to get used to the gun and how to shoot it with a proper sight picture. The S&W Sport II should be capable of 3"-4" groups at 100 yards off a rest with iron sights. It is not a sub MOA rifle but well within milspec.

Once you can consistently shoot 4" groups with iron sights I then suggest getting a scope. Once you have a solid shooting foundation then you can "better" pick a scope that will work for you. You will have a better frame of reference IMHO. If you are shooting 0-300 yards a red dot can serve you well but you need to understand bullet drop in order to shoot it at distance. If you shoot a lot at 200 to 500 yards then a magnified scope makes more sense.

The Sport II is great budget rifle but there are real reasons to move to a more expensive rifle. The number one issue is that the 1/9 twist is not ideal for rounds weighing more than 75 grs. Many people's match ammo of choice is 77 grs and the 1/9 twist will not always work in these barrels.

Also when you step up in rifles you get better QC, higher quality components, better fitting, longer lasting and more accurate rifles dedicated to more specific tasks. The Sport II is a great plinker but it is not a dedicated varmint rifle or a combat rifle IMHO. It is a budget sporter in the truest sense of the word. Nothing wrong with that but there are reasons to move up.

The number 1 think you can do to upgrade a S&W Sport II is a better trigger. Something like the ALG QMS or ACT trigger which can be had for $50 to $69. These will improve your rifle and with a simple YouTube video anyone can install one. If I were to purchase a Sport II that would be the first thing I personally would change out. After the shooter the trigger is the most important component to good accuracy assuming everything else is in spec.

 

[Will2]

1) Sports are lots of fun, especially for the first modern sporting rifle.

2) Pricing for the IIs have been as low as $500.

3) If getting a good price is important to you, then wait for a $500-525 price, it will most likely reappear.

4) Or buy one at a reasonable price (to you) and have fun... that's what I did with no regrets.

Will

 

[cyphertext]

The Sport II is great budget rifle but there are real reasons to move to a more expensive rifle. The number one issue is that the 1/9 twist is not ideal for rounds weighing more than 75 grs. Many people's match ammo of choice is 77 grs and the 1/9 twist will not always work in these barrels.

The vast majority of shooters are going to shoot either 55 gr or 62 gr ammo. The 77 gr ammo that you speak of is a specialty round suited to longer range shooting, and is expensive when compared to the M193 and M855 type rounds available.

Also when you step up in rifles you get better QC, higher quality components, better fitting, longer lasting and more accurate rifles dedicated to more specific tasks. The Sport II is a great plinker but it is not a dedicated varmint rifle or a combat rifle IMHO. It is a budget sporter in the truest sense of the word. Nothing wrong with that but there are reasons to move up.

If you move up the Smith line, you are getting the same level of quality control. You are also getting the same bolt, bolt carrier, and buffer (the heart of the rifle). True, you may get more quality control for more money from other manufacturers, but I'm not convinced that the increased QC is equal to the increased cost... only the buyer can decide that for themselves.

And you are correct that the Sport is not a dedicated varmint rifle. In most circles, a dedicated varmint gun would be a bolt action rifle. But the Sport with a 1:9 twist is quite capable to filling the role for hunting prairie dogs up to hogs quite nicely... 40 gr to 69 gr rounds should be no problem.

Battle rifle? Certainly is suitable for a LE patrol rifle (depending upon ammo used by the department) and a homeland defense rifle. We have faced enemies with a lot lesser rifles than the Sport.

 

[Whitwabit]

Thanks for the suggestions ..

Let me add that I am not exactly a newbe in shooting a rifle as I was good enough to make a base rifle club while in the Air Force so have shot rifles with open sights before .. but that was many moons ago and haven't kept up with shooting rifles ..

Not planning on loading it down with accessories to start with and am not in a big rush to acquire one so will look for a good price and would like to buy locally if I can find a decent price .. Model 10202 are going for around 650 to 700 from what I am seeing right now .. GB has them for 649 today .. will see what kind of deal my LGS will make me .. they have a variety of different makes of AR 15's ..

 

[WVSig]

The vast majority of shooters are going to shoot either 55 gr or 62 gr ammo. The 77 gr ammo that you speak of is a specialty round suited to longer range shooting, and is expensive when compared to the M193 and M855 type rounds available.

Yup that is true but that is not really a rebuttal of my point. My point is that there are things that 1/9 twist rifles like the Sport II are not good at and that if you are looking to shoot longer ranges which a 16" rifle is more than capable of the 1/9 twist will be a limiter. You are reinforcing my point that the Sport II is a basic entry level rifle geared toward people who are basically plinking.

If you move up the Smith line, you are getting the same level of quality control. You are also getting the same bolt, bolt carrier, and buffer (the heart of the rifle). True, you may get more quality control for more money from other manufacturers, but I'm not convinced that the increased QC is equal to the increased cost... only the buyer can decide that for themselves.

And you are correct that the Sport is not a dedicated varmint rifle. In most circles, a dedicated varmint gun would be a bolt action rifle. But the Sport with a 1:9 twist is quite capable to filling the role for hunting prairie dogs up to hogs quite nicely... 40 gr to 69 gr rounds should be no problem.

Battle rifle? Certainly is suitable for a LE patrol rifle (depending upon ammo used by the department) and a homeland defense rifle. We have faced enemies with a lot lesser rifles than the Sport.

I am not talking about the Smith line when I am talking about upgrading. I am speaking about people who have been in the AR15 game a lot longer than S&W. To be honest I consider all of the S&W AR15s to be entry to mid-level. Even the M&P15X Rifle is not anywhere near high end. The Model M&P15 VTAC II Viking Tactic is getting into the mid range but for the price you are not getting as much as you can from other vendors. At a realistic street price of about $1500 is leaves a lot to be desired.

I am one to believe that superior parts and superior QC leads to superior results but like in so many things there is a point of diminishing returns. In the AR15 world you are paying a lot for small differences that may or may not matter to you. I just look at S&Ws AR15s realistically. They are guns which are built to meet a price point and leverage the S&W name in an area they have not traditionally been players in. They have done a great job meeting the starter AR15 price point but they have not made much headway beyond that. IMHO YMMV. This is not to say they are not good rifles. They are I recommend them often with the proper context.

I never claimed that the Sport II was a dedicated varmint gun but the OP mentioned its possible use as one and I was pointing out its possible limitations. My post was really addressing CJ's post. CJ stated he did not see a reason for upgrading from a Sport II and I was giving reasons one might.
Your reply without that context seems misplaced a bit to me. It takes my points out of context and presents it like I am bashing or being unrealistic about the Sport II.

As for a duty or hard use rifle the Sport II would not be my first choice and personally I would be disappointed if I was issued one. It would certainly not be my first choice for a go to home defense rifle but I did not have the means to purchase something else it would be OK. Again just not my first choice. I hope people do not take this as a negative comment about these rifles. It is just one mans opinion.

 

[WVSig]

Thanks for the suggestions ..

Let me add that I am not exactly a newbe in shooting a rifle as I was good enough to make a base rifle club while in the Air Force so have shot rifles with open sights before .. but that was many moons ago and haven't kept up with shooting rifles ..

Not planning on loading it down with accessories to start with and am not in a big rush to acquire one so will look for a good price and would like to buy locally if I can find a decent price .. Model 10202 are going for around 650 to 700 from what I am seeing right now .. GB has them for 649 today .. will see what kind of deal my LGS will make me .. they have a variety of different makes of AR 15's ..

That is about $125-$150 more than they should be. 2 weeks ago you could get one from KY Gun Co for $499+shipping+ transfer which would put you OTD around $530-$550 depending what you pay for transfers. I would wait.

Is your heart set on a Sport II or are you looking at them due to the S&W nameplate and price point?

 

[jagular]

Like others have said, there is only one sport II with a couple complaint versions. Get the one that you need for your state. If you can find them now for around $600 buy it. That is normal retail without it being on sale. If there is a run on guns now due to the shooting, it may take awhile for things to calm down. Look at how long it took after the sandy hook shooting. If there happens to be another mass shooting there will definitely be another gun run that will extend into the next year. Buy now if you can. Saving a $100 isn't worth the piece of mind of potentially not getting one at all in their near future or before a ban.

I ordered a BCM bcg the night after the shooting just in case there was a run. Lowers and bcg's were the hardest components to get after sandy hook.

 

[DocB]

I already had the Colt M4 SOCOM when I picked up the Sport about a year ago. I remembered how cheap they were before the shootings at Sandy Hook so figured I might better get one. Took it out and fired some at 100 yards. Shot good to me. So, I loaded it up and threw it under the bed. It's for when the zombies gather in my back yard; and, I imagine it will do just fine.

 

[Luxy54]

No major flaws/ weaknesses with this rifle, as far as I can tell. It's a production built, entry level AR, not a custom manufactured and assembled gun. It'll be fine and more than adequate, IMO, for range shooting, occasional varmint hunting and HD. If you want something more there are plenty of options out there but they cost a little, to a whole lot more. If you want a rifle as close as possible (for the civilian world) to what the military uses (MILSPEC) then it's Colt (6920) or FN. Can't go wrong, again IMO, with the Sport 2 with a lifetime S&W warranty. Buy the Sport 2 and have fun. Don't forget to buy extra mag's!

Oh, and over the useful life of the rifle you'll typically end up spending way more on ammo so the cost of the gun will be somewhat inconsequential.

 

[soonerwink]

Need some help and a lot of info .. With the happenings of the past 6 months I feel a need to invest in an AR type of rifle .. I know nothing about them .. Have been a pistol shooter all my life and have done some bird shooting .. but no rifles in my collection ..

Have decided on a S&W Sport II .. but which model ?? maybe looking to start at model 10202

So what model of the S&W Sport II do I really want ?? Looked on Buds and there must be 10 or more different set ups .. $600 to $1000 would be my price range with all the accessories I would need added to the initial price of the rifle ..

Will use the rifle for target practice mainly .. The range I belong to has a 100/200/300 yard range plus another 100 yard range too .. so target practice out that far and maybe an occasional coyote hunt .. and maybe a future hog hunt in Texas if I can talk my niece's husband to set one up for us ..

Would maybe a red dot of some kind or is a varmint scope a better set up ?? What accessories will I need

Appreciate all the help I can get !!

What you need to know? Buy several extra magazines and a bunch of ammo, and enjoy.

 

[cyphertext]

Yup that is true but that is not really a rebuttal of my point. My point is that there are things that 1/9 twist rifles like the Sport II are not good at and that if you are looking to shoot longer ranges which a 16" rifle is more than capable of the 1/9 twist will be a limiter. You are reinforcing my point that the Sport II is a basic entry level rifle geared toward people who are basically plinking.

No, I am not reinforcing your point that the Sport II is for "plinking"... detecting a lot of arrogance from that post. Different twist rates perform certain tasks better. The OP did not mention long range shooting in his use, but he did mention varmint hunting... and a slower twist rate is better for the smaller grain rounds. If he never plans to shoot his AR at 600 yards from a bench, then the 1:7 twist is not needed. Buy the rifle with the features that you will use, not because of what the military uses, or what some random stranger on the internet says.

I am not talking about the Smith line when I am talking about upgrading. I am speaking about people who have been in the AR15 game a lot longer than S&W. To be honest I consider all of the S&W AR15s to be entry to mid-level. Even the M&P15X Rifle is not anywhere near high end. The Model M&P15 VTAC II Viking Tactic is getting into the mid range but for the price you are not getting as much as you can from other vendors. At a realistic street price of about $1500 is leaves a lot to be desired.

I have S&W, CMMG, and BCM ARs... The BCM cost almost twice as much as what a Sport could be had for, but I guarantee it is not twice the rifle. I honestly have seen very little difference in performance between the two in my use. If you blindfolded me and had me shoot all three, I would only be able to tell the difference because of the different handguards.

I am one to believe that superior parts and superior QC leads to superior results but like in so many things there is a point of diminishing returns. In the AR15 world you are paying a lot for small differences that may or may not matter to you. I just look at S&Ws AR15s realistically. They are guns which are built to meet a price point and leverage the S&W name in an area they have not traditionally been players in. They have done a great job meeting the starter AR15 price point but they have not made much headway beyond that. IMHO YMMV. This is not to say they are not good rifles. They are I recommend them often with the proper context.

See statement above regarding various brands I own...

I never claimed that the Sport II was a dedicated varmint gun but the OP mentioned its possible use as one and I was pointing out its possible limitations. My post was really addressing CJ's post. CJ stated he did not see a reason for upgrading from a Sport II and I was giving reasons one might.
Your reply without that context seems misplaced a bit to me. It takes my points out of context and presents it like I am bashing or being unrealistic about the Sport II.

You presented the 1:9 twist as a limitation of the Sport II's use as a varmint gun. Many varmint guns have an even slower rate than the Sport. The twist rate is not a limiting factor for varmint hunting what so ever. I don't know anyone who uses expensive, 77 gr rounds for varmint hunting. Hell, I use the cheapest 62 gr ammo I can get for pig eradication. Do you even hunt bro?

As for a duty or hard use rifle the Sport II would not be my first choice and personally I would be disappointed if I was issued one. It would certainly not be my first choice for a go to home defense rifle but I did not have the means to purchase something else it would be OK. Again just not my first choice. I hope people do not take this as a negative comment about these rifles. It is just one mans opinion.

Again, I don't see duty use or hard use listed in the OP's requirements. I wouldn't have an issue using a Sport II for a LE carbine. Hornady makes plenty of TAP ammo in 55 - 70 gr for LE use that will work fine with a 1:9 twist.

I certainly wouldn't have an issue using it for HD either. Home and hearth have been protected by less for years. The notion that somehow a Sport, or Ruger AR-556, or any other lower cost rifle is not up for a HD role is ridiculous. If you have $1500 to spend, which is better... $500 Sport, $500 rounds of ammo, and a training class, or a $1500 boutique rifle. I'll take the Sport and training, thank you.

 

[Backlighting]

If I ever want an AR it definitely won't be in the .223 chambering.
I'd go with a .308...greater range & significantly more power.

 

[WVSig]

No, I am not reinforcing your point that the Sport II is for "plinking"... detecting a lot of arrogance from that post. Different twist rates perform certain tasks better. The OP did not mention long range shooting in his use, but he did mention varmint hunting... and a slower twist rate is better for the smaller grain rounds. If he never plans to shoot his AR at 600 yards from a bench, then the 1:7 twist is not needed. Buy the rifle with the features that you will use, not because of what the military uses, or what some random stranger on the internet says.

Like I said IMHO YMMV. You seem to like to argue for the Sport II as the catch all answer to every AR15 problem. Clearly you like it. I think it is a great starter AR15 but honestly I can buy and upper and a lower from 10 different places for less and assemble a better rifle. Again IMHO. There is no need to call me arrogant. That is an ad homiem which only serves to distract from the actually statements I have made. You misrepresent what I have said in an attmept to prove you point.

I have S&W, CMMG, and BCM ARs... The BCM cost almost twice as much as what a Sport could be had for, but I guarantee it is not twice the rifle. I honestly have seen very little difference in performance between the two in my use. If you blindfolded me and had me shoot all three, I would only be able to tell the difference because of the different handguards.

I already addressed the law of diminishing returns and the subjective nature of a more expensive rifle. For you the BCM does not make sense. For others the stock will fit them better. The brake-comp will allow them to shoot faster and more accurately. Some people will like the KMR rail and the reduction in weight that it brings. Some will appreciate that the gun will be blemish free and will exhibit better fit and finish. For some that is worth $$$ for others it is not, the value is subjective.

Standing or sitting at a bench on a square range I agree the differences might not be worth it. For other it might. What if you want a 14.5" barrel? What it that is your think because of its portability is it worth more $$$$ to get that over a S&W Sport II? Clearly for you it might not be but for others it might be. Again the law of diminishing returns is in play and the subjective value of the upgrade cannot be universally applied. I cannot tell you universally that it is worth the coin but by the same token you cannot universally tell me it isn't. The difference between my logic and yours is that I have not claimed in any sense that my subjective preferences are universal.

You presented the 1:9 twist as a limitation of the Sport II's use as a varmint gun. Many varmint guns have an even slower rate than the Sport. The twist rate is not a limiting factor for varmint hunting what so ever. I don't know anyone who uses expensive, 77 gr rounds for varmint hunting. Hell, I use the cheapest 62 gr ammo I can get for pig eradication. Do you even hunt bro?

That again was not my intent. My intent was to point out that the Sport II as a varmint gun is a big compromise. I then made the point that if you want to do long range shooting the 1/9 will be a liability with 77gr and some 72-75gr ammo which is the prefer weight for long distance shooters. Who have again combined the two statements into a strawman in and attempt to discredit me when I have not made that argument. I have made 2 separate statements. Since there is confusion let me clarify.

1. The Sport II is not a dedicate varmint gun and in that role if one desires a rifle to fill that roll it might not be the best tool for the job.

2. If you want to shoot long distance with match grade accuracy beyond 500 yards the 1/9 twist of the Sport II will be a liability because most shooters looking to achieve that goal use 77gr ammo to accomplish the task.

Again, I don't see duty use or hard use listed in the OP's requirements. I wouldn't have an issue using a Sport II for a LE carbine. Hornady makes plenty of TAP ammo in 55 - 70 gr for LE use that will work fine with a 1:9 twist.

I certainly wouldn't have an issue using it for HD either. Home and hearth have been protected by less for years. The notion that somehow a Sport, or Ruger AR-556, or any other lower cost rifle is not up for a HD role is ridiculous. If you have $1500 to spend, which is better... $500 Sport, $500 rounds of ammo, and a training class, or a $1500 boutique rifle. I'll take the Sport and training, thank you.

You have 1* so if you are comfortable with the Sport II as a duty gun or a home defense gun then who am I to tell you different. I have not said that it cannot function in that role what I have said is that it would not be my choice. I even went as far as to say if that was my "issued" gun I could make it work but on my dime it would not be and it is not my first choice. Again we seem to be at a point of confusion where I have stated a subjective opinion and you have taken it as universal fact. Maybe I have not been clear enough. Maybe you just like to debate in this manner which is fine. I enjoy a good debate as long as we do not resort to logically fallacies in order to prove our points.

In the end people must make their own choices. The Sport II is IMHO a good rifle for the price point and that everyone who buys one should understand its limitations and know that there are other options. Those other options might cost more or with a little knowledge maybe even a little less but in the end the individual must decide. My replies in this thread were addressing the OPs admitted lack of knowledge about the world or AR15s and other comments directly made about the capabilties of the Sport II. Nothing more nothing less.


I firmly believe that Sport II is priced, then designed and built appeal to the plinking community. The spec sheet and the build tell the story. The Sport I took too many short cuts. Too many other "plikers" had FA and dustcovers not that anyone who is just plinking needs either.

I think you are missing my point when you keep focusing on the 1/9 twist and a varmint rifle. My issue with the Sport as a varmint rifle is not its 1/9 twist. It is its 16" barrel and its stock configuration. If you are looking to shoot beyond 300 yards it is not your best choice. Can you do it. Sure. Is it the best tool no, I agree a bolt gun is better. Is it the best AR15 for the job I would also say no. Which was my point. Your red herring, assuming my issue with the Sport II as varmint gun, does not hold up. Again my reason for bringing up varmint guns was to show why someone might "outgrow" or "need" something more than the Sport II.

 

[fyimo]

The Ar-10 in 308 is certainly a good rifle but the AR-15 in 556 is a better choice because of lots of good ammo at great prices and cheap magazines. They are a blast to shoot and they are accurate enough to meet your needs. The price of 308 ammo is nearly double the ammo cost of the 556 ammo so unless it this going to be a big game hunting rifle buy the Ar-15.

 

[Backlighting]

The Ar-10 in 308 is certainly a good rifle but the AR-15 in 556 is a better choice because of lots of good ammo at great prices and cheap magazines. They are a blast to shoot and they are accurate enough to meet your needs. The price of 308 ammo is nearly double the ammo cost of the 556 ammo so unless it this going to be a big game hunting rifle buy the Ar-15.

Agreed. But my point about range and power is certainly true.
Nice to have both chamberings but if limited to only one I go with the .308. Just my preference.

 

[vortex360]

Thanks for the suggestions ..

Let me add that I am not exactly a newbe in shooting a rifle as I was good enough to make a base rifle club while in the Air Force so have shot rifles with open sights before .. but that was many moons ago and haven't kept up with shooting rifles ..

Not planning on loading it down with accessories to start with and am not in a big rush to acquire one so will look for a good price and would like to buy locally if I can find a decent price .. Model 10202 are going for around 650 to 700 from what I am seeing right now .. GB has them for 649 today .. will see what kind of deal my LGS will make me .. they have a variety of different makes of AR 15's ..

I asked for the Sport 2 for $600 at our local mega showroom dealership and the employee told me he could do $530. I love that weapon more than my 1911 and BG .380. I like it exactly the way it is and wouldn't change anything.

 

[C J]

My point is that there are things that 1/9 twist rifles like the Sport II are not good at and that if you are looking to shoot longer ranges which a 16" rifle is more than capable of the 1/9 twist will be a limiter. You are reinforcing my point that the Sport II is a basic entry level rifle geared toward people who are basically plinking.

First I never said there was no reason for upgrading to a more expensive rifle. Clearly some rifles are built to do things the Sport just won't do. But I believe it takes quite a bit of money to get a lot better quality. The Sport I have is very accurate. And I actually like the twist rate. The thing about 1:7 barrels is that they sometimes won't stabilize the common 55 gr. bullets you see in .223/5.56. I have a 1:9 bolt action .223 that will shoot 75 gr. bullets very well and it does it out to 500 yards. I haven't had the chance to shoot it any farther than that so I don't know how well it will stabilize a bullet beyond that distance. It will also stabilize a 50 gr. bullet which just like a 77 gr. bullet is out of the zone for a 1:9 barrel a 50 gr. bullet is out of the range of a 1:7 barrel. There are always trade offs in these things. I shoot 4"-5" groups at 500 yards with my bolt action .223 consistently with 75 gr. bullets. That's the weight it likes the best actually. But the very best group I ever shot was with 52 gr. bullets.

I see a lot of comments about the Sport not being a battle rifle. If you're talking about living in a sand pit or a jungle for an extended period that's likely true. That's where better build quality really shines through - under adverse conditions. But any rifle that will cut blades of grass in two at 30 yards consistently is plenty good enough for what most people will use their AR for - home protection. I don't expect to live in the grunge with it for months. If I was going to do that I'd take my battle proven rifle - my SKS. That thing will keep working in the worst conditions and I paid a whopping $100 for mine. Yeah I've had it a while. It's never failed to fire because of a fault with the rifle and I swapped it over to take detachable mags the first day I bought it. There are certainly things that are better about the AR platform but that SKS is accurate enough for a battle rifle (most battles are fought at close range) and it is as durable and reliable as they come in the worst conditions. That fact was proven in Vietnam where they were put through very bad treatment by the enemy but they still kept working. The AK wasn't the only weapon used by the bad guys in that war.

I would love to have a 600 yard shooter in an AR but IMO that's likely going to cost about 3 times what I paid for my Sport. Get one that will do it reliably in adverse conditions and you'll need to add on some more money. If I wanted to spend that much I'd probably get an Accuracy International rifle.

 

[cyphertext]

Like I said IMHO YMMV. You seem to like to argue for the Sport II as the catch all answer to every AR15 problem. Clearly you like it. I think it is a great starter AR15 but honestly I can buy and upper and a lower from 10 different places for less and assemble a better rifle. Again IMHO. There is no need to call me arrogant. That is an ad homiem which only serves to distract from the actually statements I have made. You misrepresent what I have said in an attmept to prove you point.

The arrogance comes from the "plinker" comments. While you may be able to buy a part gun for the same money, some like a factory built gun, with warranty...especially for their first AR. I don't think the Sport II is the best AR available, but it is the one the OP asked about. And for the roles that the OP listed, it would serve quite well. I don't believe I have misrepresented you, I actually quoted you.

I already addressed the law of diminishing returns and the subjective nature of a more expensive rifle. For you the BCM does not make sense. For others the stock will fit them better. The brake-comp will allow them to shoot faster and more accurately. Some people will like the KMR rail and the reduction in weight that it brings. Some will appreciate that the gun will be blemish free and will exhibit better fit and finish. For some that is worth $$$ for others it is not, the value is subjective.

I agree that my BCM cost more and has more features... but for basic function, going bang and hitting the target where I aim, it has been a wash. The BCM has not shown to be any more or less reliable than my Sport, nor more accurate.

Standing or sitting at a bench on a square range I agree the differences might not be worth it. For other it might. What if you want a 14.5" barrel? What it that is your think because of its portability is it worth more $$$$ to get that over a S&W Sport II? Clearly for you it might not be but for others it might be. Again the law of diminishing returns is in play and the subjective value of the upgrade cannot be universally applied. I cannot tell you universally that it is worth the coin but by the same token you cannot universally tell me it isn't. The difference between my logic and yours is that I have not claimed in any sense that my subjective preferences are universal.

We agree more here than you may think. If you want a different configuration than what the Sport comes in, then you are usually better off buying a rifle closer to that configuration. The Sport is a basic, no frills type of carbine... but again, it is the one the OP asked about.

That again was not my intent. My intent was to point out that the Sport II as a varmint gun is a big compromise. I then made the point that if you want to do long range shooting the 1/9 will be a liability with 77gr and some 72-75gr ammo which is the prefer weight for long distance shooters. Who have again combined the two statements into a strawman in and attempt to discredit me when I have not made that argument. I have made 2 separate statements. Since there is confusion let me clarify.

1. The Sport II is not a dedicate varmint gun and in that role if one desires a rifle to fill that roll it might not be the best tool for the job.

2. If you want to shoot long distance with match grade accuracy beyond 500 yards the 1/9 twist of the Sport II will be a liability because most shooters looking to achieve that goal use 77gr ammo to accomplish the task.

I don't see the Sport as such a compromise for varmint hunting. Again I ask, do you hunt? I do, and my Sport is my favorite rifle for hogs.

I see the Sport, or any AR for that matter, being a compromise for long distance shooting. Sure, some folks use them, but there are better choices. I can get more accuracy from a bolt gun for less money than you get from a mil-spec AR. And again, the OP stated 300 yards or less, perfectly within the capability of the Sport II.

You have 1* so if you are comfortable with the Sport II as a duty gun or a home defense gun then who am I to tell you different. I have not said that it cannot function in that role what I have said is that it would not be my choice. I even went as far as to say if that was my "issued" gun I could make it work but on my dime it would not be and it is not my first choice. Again we seem to be at a point of confusion where I have stated a subjective opinion and you have taken it as universal fact. Maybe I have not been clear enough. Maybe you just like to debate in this manner which is fine. I enjoy a good debate as long as we do not resort to logically fallacies in order to prove our points.

I guess the way you word this comes off to me as saying that the Sport is not adequate for these roles... not that you prefer another weapon, but that the Sport would fail to meet the needs of this role.

In the end people must make their own choices. The Sport II is IMHO a good rifle for the price point

We should just end this here....

I firmly believe that Sport II is priced, then designed and built appeal to the plinking community.

If by "plinking community", you mean the civilian market, then I agree with you. And again, this is where I am seeing arrogance. Might as well call Sport owners "dirt clod shooters"...

 

[jimbo728]

If my workplace was a Patrol Cruiser, I would be disappointed if my
Sport 1 wasnt riding with me as a Patrol rifle.
It does everything very well and I would trust my hide with it anyday.
Jim

 

[JaPes]

Will use the rifle for target practice mainly

The range I belong to has a 100/200/300 yard range plus another 100 yard range too ..

so target practice out that far and maybe an occasional coyote hunt .. and maybe a future hog hunt in Texas

Would maybe a red dot of some kind or is a varmint scope a better set up ??

Sounds like you need a turret adjustable scope not a red dot.

What accessories will I need

In order of my priority:

1. Basic cleaning kit. Something to either pull or push patches, brushes through the bore. An AR-chamber brush. Solvent & lube. I also highly recommend the CAT-M4 bolt & carrier cleaning tool. See the cleaning tool sticky thread.

2. A case. You'll need to transport your rifle.

3. Ammunition. Buy a case of Wolf Gold for plinking and practice.

4. Extra magazines. I've not known a Sport to be magazine picky. I own Magpul mags and D&H aluminum mags w/magpul followers.

5. As I mentioned before, for your purpose of use you'll want to mount a turret adjustable scope & rings. To answer the next question that is always asked, do not worry about the front sight post. It blurs out under magnification. You won't notice it.

6. Trigger upgrade. There is nothing wrong with the stock combat trigger, but a decent two stage trigger makes a world of difference. You can go all-in with a Geissele trigger or you can go to relatively affordable such as a Rock River Arms 2-stage varmint trigger.

7. After shooting with 5 & 6 and you've confirmed that you're shooting to the best of your ability and you want to try to eke out just a little more precision and accuracy potential, free float the handguard. There are drop in setups that are compatible with a front sight post. There are some that require more work.​

Put some thought into points #6 and #7. If you even think you might want to do this, then reconsider the M&P 15-Sport II. You will most likely save $$$, time, and headaches in the long run if you purchase a rifle equipped from the factory with #6 & #7.

Be realistic about your intended purpose of use in relation to your marksmanship skill level, envision the AR-15 that matches your requirements. Go and buy a factory complete rifle equipped as many of the features you require that fits within your budget.

Take it from me, the slow AR-15 upgrade process is akin to a car salesman tricking a buyer into thinking only the monthly car payment and not the total cost of the car.

am not in a big rush to acquire one so will look for a good price and would like to buy locally if I can find a decent price

Do you like to play chess?

It's an election year, with Hillary as the Democratic candidate. The Supreme Court lost Justice Scalia. The next President will get to nominate a replacement for an evenly split pro/anti 2nd Amendment Supreme Court makeup. The recent terrorist attack in FL has stirred up gun control and anti 2nd amendment rhetoric in the main stream media and in Politics. I am of the opinion that a panic run on all firearms and ammunition is a certainty. More citizens whom are not anti-firearms but never had a reason to own one will most likely go out to buy a semi auto pistol and rifle solely because the high probability that more of our rights to bear arms will be infringed upon. They'll want to buy the modern sporting rifle that is demonized in the media: an AR-15.

I've seen cyclical panic runs during the BHO's 1st and 2nd election campaign seasons. I've ridden out the post Newtown panic run on all ammunition. Panicked individuals temporarily disrupt the balance of supply and demand. Demand is temporarily inflated, supply temporarily can not meet demand, prices rise to whatever the market will bear. Panicked people pay anything. Fear feeds the panic cycle, and more people get drawn into it. An AR-15 that once retailed $500 will sell for $900+ during a panic. A 30 round no-name aluminum magazine once retailed for $7 becomes a $100 magazine. Ammunition runs start with a depletion of the common calibers first. I saw .22lr, 9mm, .223/5.56, & .308 Win go first. Then all of a sudden 22-250 and every other caliber is gone.

I'll see whining cries of "gouging", "unfair", and calls for borderline socialist / communist redistribution of ammunition, magazines, and firearms in the name of "firearms brotherood" from the unprepared as they pay the panic induced inflated market price for firearms and ammunition because they are late to the game. The panic cycle also draws in speculators. All of a sudden the average Joe Schmo thinks of firearms as a short term investment to flip. Speculative buying on credit. Some don't sell while the panic is full swing because of greed: they think if they hold out their profit margin will exponentially increase.

This is why I'm asking if you like to play chess (and like to gamble a little bit). If you're willing to take a chance on riding out the panic and take a chance on the anti 2nd Amendment election year rhetoric not materializing into reality, you can find great deals in the 2nd quarter of 2017. Typically, the best time to buy a firearm is about 4 to 6 months after a panic cycle when supply has stabilized. Credit payments are either due or past due. There usually are a bunch of new in box "used" firearms on the racks to choose from at low prices.

I've wrapped up my firearms and ammunition purchases for 2016 and am prepared to ride out the remainder of the election year. I'm now accumulating my firearms budget up to the 2nd quarter of 2017 so that I have the option to pounce on any outstanding post-panic deal, gem, bucket list gun that may present itself.

 

[MichiganScott]

Do you like to play chess?

It's an election year, with Hillary as the Democratic candidate. The Supreme Court lost Justice Scalia. The next President will get to nominate a replacement for an evenly split pro/anti 2nd Amendment Supreme Court makeup. The recent terrorist attack in FL has stirred up gun control and anti 2nd amendment rhetoric in the main stream media and in Politics. I am of the opinion that a panic run on all firearms and ammunition is a certainty. More citizens whom are not anti-firearms but never had a reason to own one will most likely go out to buy a semi auto pistol and rifle solely because the high probability that more of our rights to bear arms will be infringed upon. They'll want to buy the modern sporting rifle that is demonized in the media: an AR-15.

I've seen cyclical panic runs during the BHO's 1st and 2nd election campaign seasons. I've ridden out the post Newtown panic run on all ammunition. Panicked individuals temporarily disrupt the balance of supply and demand. Demand is temporarily inflated, supply temporarily can not meet demand, prices rise to whatever the market will bear. Panicked people pay anything. Fear feeds the panic cycle, and more people get drawn into it. An AR-15 that once retailed $500 will sell for $900+ during a panic. A 30 round no-name aluminum magazine once retailed for $7 becomes a $100 magazine. Ammunition runs start with a depletion of the common calibers first. I saw .22lr, 9mm, .223/5.56, & .308 Win go first. Then all of a sudden 22-250 and every other caliber is gone.

I'll see whining cries of "gouging", "unfair", and calls for borderline socialist / communist redistribution of ammunition, magazines, and firearms in the name of "firearms brotherood" from the unprepared as they pay the panic induced inflated market price for firearms and ammunition because they are late to the game. The panic cycle also draws in speculators. All of a sudden the average Joe Schmo thinks of firearms as a short term investment to flip. Speculative buying on credit. Some don't sell while the panic is full swing because of greed: they think if they hold out their profit margin will exponentially increase.

This is why I'm asking if you like to play chess (and like to gamble a little bit). If you're willing to take a chance on riding out the panic and take a chance on the anti 2nd Amendment election year rhetoric not materializing into reality, you can find great deals in the 2nd quarter of 2017. Typically, the best time to buy a firearm is about 4 to 6 months after a panic cycle when supply has stabilized. Credit payments are either due or past due. There usually are a bunch of new in box "used" firearms on the racks to choose from at low prices.

I've wrapped up my firearms and ammunition purchases for 2016 and am prepared to ride out the remainder of the election year. I'm now accumulating my firearms budget up to the 2nd quarter of 2017 so that I have the option to pounce on any outstanding post-panic deal, gem, bucket list gun that may present itself.

Well said, particularly the part about whining and gouging.

 

[Kadonny]

Sounds like you need a turret adjustable scope not a red dot.



In order of my priority:

1. Basic cleaning kit. Something to either pull or push patches, brushes through the bore. An AR-chamber brush. Solvent & lube. I also highly recommend the CAT-M4 bolt & carrier cleaning tool. See the cleaning tool sticky thread.

2. A case. You'll need to transport your rifle.

3. Ammunition. Buy a case of Wolf Gold for plinking and practice.

4. Extra magazines. I've not known a Sport to be magazine picky. I own Magpul mags and D&H aluminum mags w/magpul followers.

5. As I mentioned before, for your purpose of use you'll want to mount a turret adjustable scope & rings. To answer the next question that is always asked, do not worry about the front sight post. It blurs out under magnification. You won't notice it.

6. Trigger upgrade. There is nothing wrong with the stock combat trigger, but a decent two stage trigger makes a world of difference. You can go all-in with a Geissele trigger or you can go to relatively affordable such as a Rock River Arms 2-stage varmint trigger.

7. After shooting with 5 & 6 and you've confirmed that you're shooting to the best of your ability and you want to try to eke out just a little more precision and accuracy potential, free float the handguard. There are drop in setups that are compatible with a front sight post. There are some that require more work.​

Put some thought into points #6 and #7. If you even think you might want to do this, then reconsider the M&P 15-Sport II. You will most likely save $$$, time, and headaches in the long run if you purchase a rifle equipped from the factory with #6 & #7.

Be realistic about your intended purpose of use in relation to your marksmanship skill level, envision the AR-15 that matches your requirements. Go and buy a factory complete rifle equipped as many of the features you require that fits within your budget.

Take it from me, the slow AR-15 upgrade process is akin to a car salesman tricking a buyer into thinking only the monthly car payment and not the total cost of the car.



Do you like to play chess?

It's an election year, with Hillary as the Democratic candidate. The Supreme Court lost Justice Scalia. The next President will get to nominate a replacement for an evenly split pro/anti 2nd Amendment Supreme Court makeup. The recent terrorist attack in FL has stirred up gun control and anti 2nd amendment rhetoric in the main stream media and in Politics. I am of the opinion that a panic run on all firearms and ammunition is a certainty. More citizens whom are not anti-firearms but never had a reason to own one will most likely go out to buy a semi auto pistol and rifle solely because the high probability that more of our rights to bear arms will be infringed upon. They'll want to buy the modern sporting rifle that is demonized in the media: an AR-15.

I've seen cyclical panic runs during the BHO's 1st and 2nd election campaign seasons. I've ridden out the post Newtown panic run on all ammunition. Panicked individuals temporarily disrupt the balance of supply and demand. Demand is temporarily inflated, supply temporarily can not meet demand, prices rise to whatever the market will bear. Panicked people pay anything. Fear feeds the panic cycle, and more people get drawn into it. An AR-15 that once retailed $500 will sell for $900+ during a panic. A 30 round no-name aluminum magazine once retailed for $7 becomes a $100 magazine. Ammunition runs start with a depletion of the common calibers first. I saw .22lr, 9mm, .223/5.56, & .308 Win go first. Then all of a sudden 22-250 and every other caliber is gone.

I'll see whining cries of "gouging", "unfair", and calls for borderline socialist / communist redistribution of ammunition, magazines, and firearms in the name of "firearms brotherood" from the unprepared as they pay the panic induced inflated market price for firearms and ammunition because they are late to the game. The panic cycle also draws in speculators. All of a sudden the average Joe Schmo thinks of firearms as a short term investment to flip. Speculative buying on credit. Some don't sell while the panic is full swing because of greed: they think if they hold out their profit margin will exponentially increase.

This is why I'm asking if you like to play chess (and like to gamble a little bit). If you're willing to take a chance on riding out the panic and take a chance on the anti 2nd Amendment election year rhetoric not materializing into reality, you can find great deals in the 2nd quarter of 2017. Typically, the best time to buy a firearm is about 4 to 6 months after a panic cycle when supply has stabilized. Credit payments are either due or past due. There usually are a bunch of new in box "used" firearms on the racks to choose from at low prices.

I've wrapped up my firearms and ammunition purchases for 2016 and am prepared to ride out the remainder of the election year. I'm now accumulating my firearms budget up to the 2nd quarter of 2017 so that I have the option to pounce on any outstanding post-panic deal, gem, bucket list gun that may present itself.

I'm with you. I've stockpiled most of my ammunition needs, have all the handguns I need/want. The only other thing I want to pick up very, very soon is another stripped lower to just "have". After that I'm good for awhile. I even finally got off my butt and picked up a supressor (or 2) early this year and got all the paperwork filed in April. Now just wait.....and wait....and wait.

 

[WVSig]

Last post for cyphertext... then I will move on.

You continue to to employ poor logic in and attempt to slander and discredit what I have said. You seem to take comments about the Sport II personally.

I have stated its a good entry level AR15 and I recommend it often. There is no dispute that S&W created the rifle to meet a price point. It is one of the lowest price AR15s from a major manufacturer on the market. It is what it is.

It is basic no fills gun which suits the needs of a lot of shooters. My use of the term "plinker" does not have the derogatory connotation that you are giving it. By "plinker" or "plinking" AR15 I am referring directly to the OPs intended use. For me a "plinker" is primary a range gun which is used in informal range shooting on a square range standing or from a bench at relatively short, under 300 yards, range. This can be shooting paper targets, steel targets, cans, bottles etc... I differentiate "plinking" from 3 gun, match shooting and tactical environments (hard use) because nothing is on the line. There are no points or competition to win and no ones life is at risk. There is nothing negative about the term as I have used it. Most of my shooting is plinking. What the OP describes to me is "plinking" Clearly YMMV.

I personally would not use it for a defensive gun but I do not look down on those that do or would. I simply have chosen other guns for that role. That seems to stick in your craw for some reason which I do not understand.

Anyway to the OP I hope you get the rifle you want at a price you think is reasonable. I like a lot of JaPes advice.

 

[C J]

I personally would not use it for a defensive gun but I do not look down on those that do or would.

I agree with most of your points including the definition of what a plinker is. But I don't agree that the Sport is inadequate for defense. It fires every time I pull the trigger and it's accurate. What else is there?

I do think some take the work "plinking" to mean shooting at pop cans and dirt clods. Heck that's the biggest part of what I do and it is how I learned to shoot. I shoot some competitions and I've done well at that. I won 13 of the last 15 competitions I was in. But I grew up shooting off hand, with irons, in every possible position and at whatever looked like it needed to be shot (like pop cans - they jump so well if you shoot them just right). I don't see that as a negative. I see it as a positive. I don't think of the AR as a target rifle. I've shot some that were supposed to be accurate for the platform and to be honest they were not in the same league as my bolt action. Of course that rifle was a $1400 rifle with a $400 scope on it. It's not a surprise that a semi-auto doesn't stand up to it. I know there are certainly some AR's that would do very well in comparison but they don't come cheap. I would expect to spend double what I spent on my bolt action to get a semi-auto to match it's accuracy and even then I'm not sure it would do as well. Just close. I once shot a 1" group at 500 yards with that bolt action rifle. That rifle is a varmint rifle BTW. It's way too heavy to carry around and the balance is completely off for off hand shooting. It has to be rested to shoot accurately unless someone much stronger than me is shooting it.

The AR is a fine platform but it has it's limitations like all platforms. I don't see a problem shooting minute of man at 300 yards with the one I have. My SKS will do that shooting off hand. But again I learned to shoot completely as an off hand shooter. My brothers would laugh at me all day if I tried to use a rest. It wasn't hard enough. And we shot a lot.

I just think that almost all defensive situations are going to take place within the range of the Sport. It isn't the most accurate rifle around or the most durable. But it's pretty good. I also learned to shoot with bad triggers. Good triggers are certainly better for accuracy but it's possible to shoot pretty well with a bad trigger. The gains from upgrading to a better trigger, a better barrel, etc. are going to be under the diminishing returns rule. It takes a lot more money to get a little bit better.

I don't think any of us here are that much different in our thinking. The only real point of contention I see is whether the Sport is a defensive weapon. It's not a live in the jungle, hide in the creek in the mud to ambush a patrol kind of weapon IMO. But it will knock down a pack of coyotes pretty quick. That's the strength of the platform, it's a fast target acquiring rifle and that works against a gang of bad guys too. Most of us will never face that situation anyway. Probably none of us will unless someone is active duty military. Maybe a LEO might.

I know it gets said a lot here that the Sport isn't a defensive weapon or a combat weapon. I think the requirements some have for such weapons are higher than many of us feel is needed. But that's just a matter of opinion and has little to do with the actual performance of the rifle. It just tells us what some think is needed more than anything. As always your mileage may vary. Some are just going to see those points differently.

 

[cyphertext]

Last post for cyphertext... then I will move on.

You continue to to employ poor logic in and attempt to slander and discredit what I have said. You seem to take comments about the Sport II personally.

I don't even own a Sport II, so it isn't personal... but I will question any comments about accuracy, reliability, and quality that are simply bias and opinions stated as fact.

I have stated its a good entry level AR15 and I recommend it often. There is no dispute that S&W created the rifle to meet a price point. It is one of the lowest price AR15s from a major manufacturer on the market. It is what it is.

So we agree. It is a good, basic carbine, with a lower price point from a major manufacturer that stands behind their product. Not the best, feature laden rifle, but well built and reliable.

It is basic no fills gun which suits the needs of a lot of shooters. My use of the term "plinker" does not have the derogatory connotation that you are giving it. By "plinker" or "plinking" AR15 I am referring directly to the OPs intended use. For me a "plinker" is primary a range gun which is used in informal range shooting on a square range standing or from a bench at relatively short, under 300 yards, range. This can be shooting paper targets, steel targets, cans, bottles etc... I differentiate "plinking" from 3 gun, match shooting and tactical environments (hard use) because nothing is on the line. There are no points or competition to win and no ones life is at risk. There is nothing negative about the term as I have used it. Most of my shooting is plinking. What the OP describes to me is "plinking" Clearly YMMV.

OK, I'll accept your definition...except that long range shooting can also be "plinking"... as well as three guns and match shooting. Nothing is on the line in any of these events, maybe a trophy or a few hundred dollars for most shooters. But no lives are at stake.

I personally would not use it for a defensive gun but I do not look down on those that do or would. I simply have chosen other guns for that role. That seems to stick in your craw for some reason which I do not understand.

I can agree with you here as well. In other posts, your tone or wording gave the impression that the Sport is not adequate for that role. I simply question that thinking... Well built firearm from a respected manufacturer at a price point that many can afford... not seeing where you could go wrong.

I too use other firearms for defense, but not because I do not think the Sport is adequate. I simply have more rounds through my shotgun than I do an AR, but I have been re-thinking my choices.

Anyone to the OP I hope you get the rifle you want at a price you think is reasonable. I like a lot of JaPes advice.

Agree here as well, but the "reasonable price" train may have departed the station and may not be back until this time next year.