CC holder - traffic stop gone bad

[smithfan4152]

CCL

All I can remember in the concealed carry class I took was the number of times they showed the film how to announce to the police that your carrying a firearm or arms. Keeping hands on the wheel, letting him know your carrying and have a permit, and then asking how would you like to proceed.
I kind of wonder if he had his pistol drawn when he approached the car?
I guess it's a matter of time before we find out some of the answers.
I finished my class and have my license, I have yet to carry outside of the home. I don't plan to do so unless I feel the need, and only then.
It seems very risky, regardless of color. I don't think any policeman feels comfortable once he hears those words come out of someone's mouth.

Also while at a party of the 4th a friend told me he knew of a guy that was doing the classes, and only charging $150.00 and just signing off on the people. All I can say is these are some of the situations that will only go to make things worse, People getting the license without the schooling, a recipe for more heartache.

 

[Steve912]

All I can remember in the concealed carry class I took was the number of times they showed the film how to announce to the police that your carrying a firearm or arms. Keeping hands on the wheel, letting him know your carrying and have a permit, and then asking how would you like to proceed..

Perfect!

Do what you'd want someone to do, if you were in the officer's position.

I was out fishing a couple of years ago, and a couple of state game wardens pulled their boat up to me and asked for my license. I said, "It's in my drybox, inside the console, and I have a pistol on top of it. I have a carry permit. What do you want me to do?".

He told me to go ahead and bring it out. I laid the box open on the seat next to me, in their full view, and picked up the pistol with two fingers and laid it on the seat. Gave them my license and stood still, with hands in view, till the game warden handed everything back. They thanked me for my cooperation. I waited till they were headed off, to put everything back.

These situations are definitely "ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure (and a ride to ER)", and as carry permit holders, the prevention is by and large in OUR hands.

 

[old bear]

My home state, NC has a Must notify requirement for CCW. It's strongly suggested, if stopped (in your car) you do the following. Roll window down half way, keep both hands on steering wheel, and notify officer as soon as he approaches your car. I've not had any experience with this, thank goodness, but have been told it works well for everyone.

 

[petepeterson]

Not required to notify in PA, but I did anyway when pulled over a few years back. I didn't see the harm in it. Ms. Trooper asked where it was, and it was never brought up again. Hands stayed on the wheel unless she told me to do otherwise.

 

[moosedog]

We were not there so we do not know the whole story. Speculation is unfair to all parties involved.

 

[comtedeloach]

From what I saw, it's a bad shoot. Not gonna turn out well.


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[Doug627]

Just so everyone knows, I believe the driver was probably a good man. I have seen nothing to make me think otherwise. As to race making a difference. I don't think so. I could be wrong.

 

[dougb1946]

As usual, it's too early to speculate.

But that won't stop anybody. Including the media.

 

[grcoffman104]

I have stopped over a thousand individuals in 33 years. My advice follows. Your mileage my vary.
1. Turn off car, roll window down, dome light on, keys and hands flat on dash.
2. Officer will into duce self and state reason for stop.
3. Your response " I'm soory to have placed you in this position. I am a cch holder and
Am armed. How would you like me to proceed? I will cooperate fully sir or maam.

Follow instructions.
We watch hands. Your displaying yours in open, keys too indicate your not going any where.

We figure everybody is armed.
The above shows you are deescelating the contact.

If you feel citation in error, seduce a court hearing.

I would have not cited an individual acting as above unless violation was dangerous





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[Tn642owner]

new guy here

Just completed everything here in Tennessee for carry permit. I have been following this story and have one question:
If the officer was fearful of the situation why didn't he immediately retreat back to the cover of his car?

 

[Krell1]

The investigation will show what actually took place. We all need to wait for that before we jump to conclusions. Unfortunately, there are many people that can't wait and have to express what they think whether it's right or wrong. Some of those people will also disagree with the final outcome. That's just the way things go.

 

[smithfan4152]

CCL

It is an unfortunate incident, but I'm sure if there were 3 other men in the car, instead of his girlfriend and child, it could have turned out much worse.

 

[cp2146]

Not knowing the facts here, but knowing that not every cop is a well trained, competent professional. Also knowing that between the Black Lives Matter issues, and now the shooting of police officers in Dallas, all cops are likely to be especially jumpy and anxious. My personal plan has always been to inform the LEO that I am licensed and carrying even if not required to do so, but now I am not so sure that this is the best course of action. If not required to inform, and if not asked by the LEO, it might be better to not raise the subject but to make sure that before he reaches my car I have my drivers license, registration and proof of insurance in my hands which are on the top of the steering wheel. The engine will be shut off, the dome light on if it is nighttime, and I will be just an old white guy who poses no threat to the officer. Just mentioning that I am licensed and armed could well escalate what otherwise would be a non event.

When I was in class to get my LTC (license to carry), I asked the instructor how he would proceed during a traffic stop, and would he automatically inform the officer that he was licensed to carry and was armed. His answer was, he would not volunteer any information unless asked, for two reasons. First, in Texas, the officer is already going to know you are licensed as soon as they run your tags (assuming you are in your own vehicle) because all your info (DL, LTC, vehicle registration, etc.) is linked together in their database. Second, when you have your DL out and ready (before the officer approaches your vehicle), you should also have you LTC in your hand and visible to the officer as he approaches. Then, let the officer take it from there and ask what he/she wants. Also, always remember to answer politely and courteously and comply with the officer's instructions. If you take issue with the reason for being stopped, don't become belligerent. Take it up with the officer's supervisor at another time when tempers have cooled.

 

[gnystrom]

I live in MN and we are now learning that Philando Castile, (the deceased driver), had 79 traffic violations on his record. I suspect the officer called in the plate before approaching the car and no doubt his adrenaline was pumped up. Other claims as to previous LE contact are not available as of yet.
More facts that may have contributed to this will certainly come out as the investigation progresses.

 

[NYlakesider]

As a lead foot I have more than my share of roadside chats with LEOs. That's city/town police, Sheriffs and State Police. I have never had a problem when I tell them I'm legally armed.

I tell them, where the gun, is where my license and reg/insurance card is and make the statement your in charge, I'm not moving until you tell me what you want me to do.

When I pull over if its at night I shut off vehicle, open windows and put on interior lights, put my hands palm up on the steering wheel. FWIW I'm a big guy long beard, normally sort of long hair and many people say I kinda look like a outlaw biker. Now at age 70 my stops are not frequent but in the past I have a few

I do what the nice LEO/s asks and never had a gun puled on me or sensed I was in any danger. Your deportment along with a couple other factors can influence what happens next!

Heck many time a simple traffic stop has turned into a gun discussion and a gentle warning!

 

[Steve912]

Just so everyone knows, I believe the driver was probably a good man. I have seen nothing to make me think otherwise. As to race making a difference. I don't think so. I could be wrong.

I have nothing to make me think he was good or bad, so I'm not making an assumption. Same applies to the officer.

 

[indie_rocker]

When I took the class for a Michigan CPL, the instructor was very clear about a few things. The instructor was also an auxiliary police officer.

1) First and foremost, roll the window down, turn the car off, put hands on steering wheel. The officer already knows you have a permit to carry before you tell him. At least in Michigan, it comes up when the plate number is ran.
2) Inform the officer as soon as possible that you are carrying if you are ever pulled over or detained by law enforcement. Duty to inform in MI.
3) Don't refer to it as a "gun." Rather say something like "I have a CPL and I am carrying today, it's on my right hip." Or "there is a firearm in the car." When cops hear "I have a gun" they tend to get nervous.
4) Don't go reaching for ID or paperwork until asked to do so. Once such things are requested, announce your intentions crystal clear before making any moves. "Sir/ma'am, my ID is in my front left pocket, I'm going to get it with my left hand. My registration/proof of insurance is in the glove box and inside the owners manual, I'm going to open it and get the owners manual."


I'm really sorry to hear about this loss of life. We don't know if it was a lack of officer training or maybe the driver was nervous and moving around a lot. We might never know the whole story. I don't think it would have mattered if the guy was white or black. I sure hope to never find myself in a similar situation. Only been pulled over once since getting a CPL 3 years ago. It was an unremarkable traffic stop, I hope they're all like that.

 

[Okie21]

I like all the good advice from LEO members here. Unfortunately, I've seen a bunch of YouTube videos posted by loonies who tell people you shouldn't open your window or give your ID because they feel cops don't have the right to interrogate you. So some idiot watches one of these videos and thinks, hey I'm gonna give cops a hard time because YouTube schmuck said I could.

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[RSanch111]

The idea that an officer knows you are a permitted carrier when he pulls you over and before he talks to you is nothing more than an assumption. There are many reasons why he may not have run your plate before stopping you.

 

[RSanch111]

Just completed everything here in Tennessee for carry permit. I have been following this story and have one question:
If the officer was fearful of the situation why didn't he immediately retreat back to the cover of his car?

Because he didn't want to be out in the open while the guy with the gun had some cover/concealment when the shooting started?