Purchased Pre-10, took the plunge...

[Hondo44]

You can buy one handgun every 30 days...if you buy one on the 1st of September, you can buy the next one on the 31st of September, and not one minute before the DROS has been electronically filed. You can make a deposit, but can't take possession. Only in CA.

A little clarification on an often misunderstood part of this CA law quagmire:

The "one handgun a month" law only pertains to new gun purchases and used gun purchases from a dealer.

It does not apply to private or dealer consignment sales, from one individual to another even though they must be transacted thru an FFl holder, i.e., a dealer. Private/consignment sales do not count towards the one gun a month rule. If a dealer states that it must count these private transfers towards the 'one a month rule', it is out of compliance with the law and should be reported and educated.

Also, a dealer can not sell a new or used gun that they own, that is not on the DOJ safety approved list within the state, only out of state. That pertains to guns produced before the list existed as well. This excludes guns over 50 years old and all new and used single action sales however, which are exempt from the list requirement.

Guns produced before the list went into effect and guns produced after the list but do not qualify for the list can be sold on consignment and transferred between individuals within the state and a dealer must handle the transfer. Again, this includes guns on consignment at a dealer's store because the dealer does not own consigned guns.

New or used guns that are not on the DOJ safety approved list cannot be sold into or brought into the state (even by a dealer) except for a private sale transfer to law enforcement or active military members.

And then, once these guns have been in the state for a year, they may be sold by law enforcement or active military members thru a private sale to individuals in or out of the state and transferred thru a dealer. They still may be bought by a dealer but not sold within the state by the dealer, only out of state.

So as you can see, with thanks to, and only because of the efforts by the CRPA (CA Rifle and Pistol Assoc.) and the NRA, private firearm sales do still retain some freedom from the state's useless and moronic anti-gun laws.

 

[AlHunt]

You can buy one handgun every 30 days...if you buy one on the 1st of September, you can buy the next one on the 31st of September, and not one minute before the DROS has been electronically filed. You can make a deposit, but can't take possession. Only in CA.

I thought surely I was misunderstanding. That's going to limit the market for all guns and drive the cost up some, too.

ETA: I just read Hondo44's treatise on the subject. Even those exemptions are going to drive the market up because of the uncertainty and intimidation created and the (probably felonious) consequences of getting it wrong. Look at the number of online auction sellers who just won't ship to CA. The bottom line is I think this factors into the price the OP paid for his new gun.

 

[Hondo44]

Sellers that won't ship to CA are hoodwinked into succumbing to the anti-2nd amendment trap.

If those sellers are trying to make a statement, they're just unwittingly helping the anti-gun strategy.

If they're concerned about breaking a CA law, that's nonsense, the requirement to send one e-mail to the CA DOJ to get the "permission to ship email" to ship a gun to CA protects them from making a mistake.

Rather, look at the number of seller's that WILL ship to CA, they are the patriots that deserve our patronage by doing business with them.

 

[Waveski]

No matter how you look at it , the intent of anti-gun California legislators is to restrict , bit by bit , gun transactions and general ownership. The end goal is obvious. And , it is working.

I have a relative who resides in Northern California. That individual has recently installed a safe in my basement in a state with more reasonable government. Soon the transfers will begin to arrive.

They are winning.

 

[Ron M.]

A little clarification on an often misunderstood part of this CA law quagmire:

The "one handgun a month" law only pertains to new gun purchases and used gun purchases from a dealer.

It does not apply to private or dealer consignment sales, from one individual to another even though they must be transacted thru an FFl holder, i.e., a dealer. Private/consignment sales do not count towards the one gun a month rule. If a dealer states that it must count these private transfers towards the 'one a month rule', it is out of compliance with the law and should be reported and educated.

Also, a dealer can not sell a new or used gun that they own, that is not on the DOJ safety approved list within the state, only out of state. That pertains to guns produced before the list existed as well. This excludes guns over 50 years old and all new and used single action sales however, which are exempt from the list requirement.

Guns produced before the list went into effect and guns produced after the list but do not qualify for the list can be sold on consignment and transferred between individuals within the state and a dealer must handle the transfer. Again, this includes guns on consignment at a dealer's store because the dealer does not own consigned guns.

New or used guns that are not on the DOJ safety approved list cannot be sold into or brought into the state (even by a dealer) except for a private sale transfer to law enforcement or active military members.

And then, once these guns have been in the state for a year, they may be sold by law enforcement or active military members thru a private sale to individuals in or out of the state and transferred thru a dealer. They still may be bought by a dealer but not sold within the state by the dealer, only out of state.

So as you can see, with thanks to, and only because of the efforts by the CRPA (CA Rifle and Pistol Assoc.) and the NRA, private firearm sales do still retain some freedom from the state's useless and moronic anti-gun laws.

Thanks for the clarification; my last purchase was a consignment at the LGS...I will verify that info and return to the pawn shop armed with this information and see what happens. Either way, I can understand out of state sellers concerns regarding the laws here in CA regarding handguns.

 

[JP@AK]

One other detail;
Since the "barrel" or "beer keg" shaped knob, A.K.A. LERK requires the pre war barrel with notch in the bottom of the barrel, those barrels usually all pre war and have patent dates on top.

I don't believe there is a causal connection. I'm looking at my S 961xxx from Dec. 1947 here with the new small knurled end and all the patent dates still present on top. The barrel is definitely not pre-war and does not have the cut-out.

I have examined nearly 700 examples of late SV prefix (civilian shipments) and S prefix M&P revolvers over the past two years. Except for the 2" guns, every single one of them has had the patent dates on the barrels, regardless of the presence or absence of the milled notch for the extractor rod knob. Moreover, early C prefix guns also have patent dates on them and none of them (so far as I know) had the older extractor rod knob which required milling of the barrel flat.

I have concluded that the presence of patent dates has absolutely no connection to a barrel being forged before, during or after the war. Consider this: during the war, virtually all M&P production was geared toward using 4" .38 Special barrels and 5" .38 S&W barrels. Those, of course, had patent dates on the top. They also had the appropriate cartridge stamp on the side. When production shifted back to civilian markets, barrel length usage expanded to include 6" and 2" guns. The latter are irrelevant to this discussion, but 4", 5" and 6" barrels all carried patent dates on the top and the correct cartridge designation on the right side. Clearly roll stamping was being done in the 1946-48 period. There is simply no reason to believe that all these barrels were coming from old unused supplies that survived the war period.

 

[Owen49]

You can buy one handgun every 30 days...if you buy one on the 1st of September, you can buy the next one on the 31st of September, and not one minute before the DROS has been electronically filed. You can make a deposit, but can't take possession. Only in CA.

Maybe only Kalifornia has September 31st.

 

[Ron M.]

Maybe only Kalifornia has September 31st.

Of course we do...the rest of the country hasn't figured that out yet....we are trend setters....

 

[Hondo44]

I have examined nearly 700 examples of late SV prefix (civilian shipments) and S prefix M&P revolvers over the past two years. Except for the 2" guns, every single one of them has had the patent dates on the barrels, regardless of the presence or absence of the milled notch for the extractor rod knob. Moreover, early C prefix guns also have patent dates on them and none of them (so far as I know) had the older extractor rod knob which required milling of the barrel flat.

I have concluded that the presence of patent dates has absolutely no connection to a barrel being forged before, during or after the war. Consider this: during the war, virtually all M&P production was geared toward using 4" .38 Special barrels and 5" .38 S&W barrels. Those, of course, had patent dates on the top. They also had the appropriate cartridge stamp on the side. When production shifted back to civilian markets, barrel length usage expanded to include 6" and 2" guns. The latter are irrelevant to this discussion, but 4", 5" and 6" barrels all carried patent dates on the top and the correct cartridge designation on the right side. Clearly roll stamping was being done in the 1946-48 period. There is simply no reason to believe that all these barrels were coming from old unused supplies that survived the war period.

Hi Jack,

I agree completely. My point that notched barrels with the patent dates found on post war guns are "usually" pre war old inventory referred to all models in general. The M&Ps are clearly the exception in that as you posted, they were produced all during the war with patent dated barrels and notched barrels with LERKs and then straight rods with patent dated barrels. So no, those are not left over pre war barrels.

 

[Hondo44]

No matter how you look at it , the intent of anti-gun California legislators is to restrict , bit by bit , gun transactions and general ownership. The end goal is obvious. And , it is working.

They are winning.

DUH! And if they are winning, my point is, let's not help them!!

I hope it's wrong but you know what is said and has been true in the past, "How goes CA, so goes the rest of the nation." So no one should get to comfortable in other states, but rather help us in the fight as much as possible in the People's Republik of Kalifornia.

 

[Ron M.]

Filled out DROS today...

According to paperwork, it is a five inch barrel, not six. Does that make it less common or affect collector value, if any? The bore is perfect. Will clean up bluing nicely with Ren Wax.

 

[Absalom]

Jack should be able to give you an idea about relative commonality, but I don't believe there is a significant effect on value. Personally, I think the 5" M&P's look better than the 6", more proportionate, but that's purely aesthetic.

 

[Ron M.]

Went lurking at GB, no 5 inchers hanging around, lots of 4 and 6...what difference in value does an inch make, either way, anyway...it does look a bit more ungainly than the six inch ones.

 

[JP@AK]

I have not tabulated my spreadsheet lately, but 75-100 guns ago it looked like 6" examples were only showing at about 12%-15% of those identified. 4" and 5" guns dominate with a slight edge going to the 4". 2" and 6" are about equally common on the low end. Now that's a sample of less than 1,000 guns out of some 180,000 made, but since it is a random sample it probably isn't too far off. It is fair to speculate that 6" examples were significantly less common than 5".

However, in my experience there does not seem to be a price differential. Only the 2" M&P revolvers of the period seem to sell for a premium. And that appears to hold true whether the gun in question has the round or square butt.

 

[Ron M.]

Picked up new toy yesterday...

After cleaning off the grime of 70 years, turned out to be very nice. Only visible areas with small spots of rust were on the back strap (I think that's the term) behind the grips, maybe 1/8 inch in two places. Bore was perfect, one minor discoloration area behind one of the cylinder flutes. Removed the grips, they matched to the gun. I would estimate 98% finish. No holster marks. Oh, and by measuring the barrel using the pin as a starting point, it is a six inch, not five as the paperwork indicated. Happy camper here!

 

[kthom]

Jim,

Sounds to me like those smart folks in CA have determined that a 55 year old gun just ain't nearly as dangerous as a 49 year old one just about like it!! I'm really glad to know that. Now if we could just determine a gun's age by looking down the barrel, we'd know whether or not to be really scared!!! LOL!

 

[DocB]

I picked up this one back in 2008-2009 for $150. It's an S from the late 1940's. Got it from a gun/pawn shop back when nobody wanted them and they just laid around the store until somebody like me came along. I put the box with it 2 years later for $50. . .back when boxes didn't sell that good on EBAY.