Model 19-3 destroys primers

[GavinLee]

A couple of years ago an old friend of the family's was leaving the state and needed to sell his model 19-3 2 1/2". He had bought it new in the '70s and had shot less than a box of shells through it, almost non existent cylinder ring. He wanted $500 so I picked up. I had always wanted a 4" m19 but this little guy has really grown on me. It has the small grips not the target ones and fits just right in my parka pocket when out on my snowmachine.
The issue with it is that it perforates about 40% of the original brand of primers that I was using. I'm embarrassed that I have forgotten what they are as I primed these 5-6 years ago. I took it to a small part time gunsmith that I know and he dressed down the firing pin. Next time out perforated primers using Lasercast 158gr. SWC with 6.0gr. Unique. He put in a new firing pin but no difference. I changed to WSP primers and although they get hit hard they don't perforate. The other small issue with the little gem is that the trigger pull as measured with a RCBS trigger pull scale is only 2 #'s. If you go to the range with several revolvers you need to remember when you pick up the m19 it don't take much to set it off. I'm afraid that anything done to increase the trigger pull would hit the primers even harder. Any body have any ideas? I absolutely love this little gun. I knew the original owner for over 60 years so it is a little special in that regard, and it is so pristine. It is worth the $500 just to have to look at! LOL
GavinLee

 

[BUFF]

It may be that the rebound spring has been shortened or replaced. A new, stock spring may put a couple of pounds back on the single action trigger pull weight. The mainspring powers the hammer, so leave it alone if you don't want hammer speed increased.

 

[scooter123]

I expect that at some point your friend had the trigger in your model 10 "tuned", because S&W has never shipped revolvers with a single action trigger this light. For a 19-3 a single action trigger weight a bit over 3 lbs. is typical and in a nearly unfired sample it will be almost 4 lbs. until it "wears in".

The solution for your light trigger depends on on how it was lightened. First clue to determine this is to compare the reset force of the trigger. If after pulling the trigger the reset force of the trigger seems very light replacing the Rebound Spring with a new one will restore the trigger to factory condition.

If the reset force of the trigger is normal when compared to other revolvers this means the trigger was tuned using the "old school" method of stoning the Sear on the trigger to an Assist Angle. Something that is no longer done because doing this will place all of the wear on the tip of the. sear notch on the hammer and result in Push Off. Unfortunately because they are Case Hardened restoring the Sear Angle on the trigger back to the factory specification can sometimes break through the hardened layer so this is not always successful. In view of this and the lack of Gunsmiths today being capable of restoring that sear angle I would recommend that you purchases a new trigger from Numrich Gun Parts. Just be aware that you may have to wait until one becomes available.

Hopefully you haven't shot your model 19 so much in single action to result in Push Off because the only cure for Push Off is a new Hammer. Until you get a new trigger in your pistol I STRONGLY recommend that you ONLY shoot your model 19 in Double Action. BTW, due to the shorter hammer fall in Double Action using this mode of fire will probably solve your problem with pierced primers.

Now, Sure cures for Pierced Primers require the Hammer Nose to be properly fitted, something many gunsmiths today don't have a clue of how to do. It is actually rather simple.

First, the shape of the finished tip should have a Hemispherical Shape. Because the sharp edges around a flat tip will be certain to produce issues with primers being pierced. Make sure your revolver is empty and cock it. Then take a look at the tip of the hammer nose using a magnifier. If your "Gunsmith" has stoned it flat then you will know for certain he is NOT qualified to work on a S&W revolver. In fact any "Gunsmith" who files ANY firing pin tip flat really isn't qualified to be a Gunsmith. It doesn't matter what it's being used in, the tip of a firing pin should ALWAYS be hemispherical. There are two separate reasons for this, one is that it prevents "chipping" of the tip, the second is it greatly reduces the potential for a pierced primer.

Second, on a Hammer Nose equipped S&W the projection through the recoil shield at FULL HAMMER FALL should be equal to the full thickness of a common US Dime or just a bit more. To get to this point you will need to swing open the cylinder, Cock the Hammer, and then Release the Hammer while controlling the drop and at the end of the Hammer Fall HOLD THE TRIGGER TO THE REAR. Then place a common US dime on the Recoil Shield next to the tip of the Hammer Nose and compare the rim thickness to the tip. BTW, Canadian dimes are slightly thinner at the rim so only us a US Dime for this comparison. If that tip is even with the rim edge or just a tiny bit above it you are good to leave it as is as long as it has been properly rounded. Note, if the tip is a hint short of that Dime Test it will probably be OK but you won't ever want to have your revolver tuned for a lighter DA trigger because a short tip can cause misfire issues. If the Hammer Nose is a bit long you can use a good stone or a fine grit diamond file to SLOWLY shorten/re-round the tip until it's just a hint long of the edge of a Dime.

 

[federali]

Another possibility is that the gap between the barrel and cylinder may have been set up a bit too wide. I no longer remember what the gap should be. If this is the case, the cylinder needs to be moved forward a few thousandths. The cartridges should not be dragging on the rear of the frame or the recoil shield as the cylinder rotates.

 

[linde]

. . . you will need to swing open the cylinder, Cock the Hammer, and then Release the Hammer . . .

Great guidance Scooter. Just a reminder for the OP . . . to cock the hammer with the cylinder open you'll need to hold the cylinder release fully to the rear.

Russ

 

[Milton]

Just to make sure,you weren't using Remington primers were you? I found a "deal" on Remington primers and my Ruger's and Smith's perforate those primers about 80% of the time.

 

[DWalt]

Not with a S&W, but I once, long ago, had a .38 Special revolver that pierced primers regularly. I switched to using small rifle primers. That solved the problem. I still use small rifle primers for .38 Special, .38 Super, and .357.

 

[GavinLee]

Thank you all for your responses! I've fired it maybe 200 rounds and would like to use it more in the future so I think I'll try and seek out someone to go into it. Knowing the individual that owned it I doubt that he ever modified anything on it. It came in it's blue box with the registration card and owners manual and I get the feeling that it spent most life there. I'm not sure where to send it, maybe to Smith & Wesson? The little gun is "mint" and like I said there is some sentimental value. I do plan to check out the hammer projection through the recoil shield and check the firing pin profile. That is probably be about as far as I would feel comfortable doing. As for Milton's question I am about 80% sure that they were Remington primers. I had a new case of 1000 .357 Starline brass and the box of primers was very small which would suggest Remingtons. At the time I had a Colt King Cobra and they were ok in it and in my son's Smith model 60. I have fired about 100 loads with Winchester WSPs since and they havn't been an issue in this regard. Again my thanks for your great responses!
GavinLee

 

[jimmyj]

Consider sending your revolver to S&W for needed repairs

 

[Big Cholla]

IMHO, you ought to send it to Wild West Guns in Anchorage. Ask them to do a complete armorer's check and to return anything in the internals that is not stock back to stock. That is a great handgun and deserves to be right. ..... You can UPS it direct to Wild West after you obtain their permission. ...............

 

[Jim Watson]

I have had some very ugly looking Remington 1 1/2 primers out of 9mms. Unless you conclude the hammer and sear have been messed with, I recommend WW or CCI.

 

[GavinLee]

Thanks Jimmyj. That was my first thought, but since I'm in Anchorage on occasion I may take it by Wild West Guns. I know they are experts on the Marlin levers but never thought of them for the Smith & Wessons. Thanks Big Cholla. Jim, I have of late been able to pick up Winchester WSPs and CCI 500's. Thanks all for you help and some good advice!
GavinLee

 

[Big Cholla]

Results?

Thanks Jimmyj. That was my first thought, but since I'm in Anchorage on occasion I may take it by Wild West Guns. I know they are experts on the Marlin levers but never thought of them for the Smith & Wessons. Thanks Big Cholla. Jim, I have of late been able to pick up Winchester WSPs and CCI 500's. Thanks all for you help and some good advice!
GavinLee

GL: You are welcome. Wild West Guns is one the most respected LGSs here in Las Vegas with top quality gunsmiths. And, I know that their original LGS in Anchorage is just a good or better. ..... And, How cold is it in Fairbanks? Once, I flew my Cessna 180 in one day and it was - 35 deg. The airplane engine didn't want to fly, I didn't want to fly, but I had too.... :-( ............

 

[Bikes]

Constantly in awe of the knowledge on this forum......sometimes I just open a thread and read.......its a valuable resource....