Talk to me about Chronographs

[carpriver]

I have been reloading for awhile and have never felt the need for a chronograph, Now I have several different pistol powders that I want to develop loads for. I want to develop light loads for plinking and training, I have arthritis and it is starting to create some problems with my wrists. But I still want to have the ability to shoot full power loads.

And I guess I want to be sure I am getting the most out of my loads as well as improving accuracy of my loads. would this be a reason for investing in a chronograph?

The powders I have on hand are CFE 2 bottles, Hp-38 2 bottles, AA#2 7 pounds, AA#5 6 pounds
universal 2 bottles, titegroup 1 bottle, SR7625 5 bottles. ramshot comp half a bottle.

my research tells me the simplest to use with less likely of shooting the Chronograph is LabRadar. So let the information flow,

I load for 9mm, 40cal, 38spl, 44spl 44mag., 45ACP, 45 Colt, M1 carbine, 5.56, 308win,

 

[OKFC05]

If you get the labradar, you will be the most popular guy at your club with people wanting to use it. Excellent but pricey.


You didn't say what calibers you load, but a chronograph can certainly see what you are getting from YOUR guns, and is a fun hobby into itself. As to getting better accuracy, well, chrono variance and group size don't always correlate well, especially at usual short pistol distances. Long range rifle shooters can get downright religious about reducing load variance.

 

[T2C]

I've been using a $100 Competition Electronics chronograph for close to 20 years. If you take precautions, you should be able to shoot between the chronograph and sky screens without any problems.

A chronograph is a handy piece of kit for load development. What I like most about them is that I can verify muzzle velocities when changing powders or using the same brand and type of powder from a different lot.

 

[njl]

You could shoot several chronographs and not spend as much as one labradar.

 

[muddocktor]

You could shoot several chronographs and not spend as much as one labradar.

And this is quoted for truth!

The LabRadar unit looks fantastic, but was much more than what I wanted to spend. A couple of years ago I bought the Caldwell Ballistic Chronograph and found it much less than satisfactory. They are supposedly sending me yet another replacement, but I'm not holding my breath. A few weeks ago I went ahead and bought a Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital chrony along with the Bluetooth module to connect it to my smartphone and I've done 1 range visit with it so far and I am happy.

 

[Nemo288]

I have the ProChrono, a Magnetospeed and the LabRadar.
The only one easy to use with handguns at an indoor range is the LabRadar.
If you can afford it get it.
No setting up down range if it's possible to do so at all.
Everything is right there beside you .. literally inches away.
I recommend using a tripod unless your bench is concrete.
Ours are plastic and bounce.
The LabRadar wants to be as stable as possible.
The readings are slightly off from the ProChrono but will be good for developing loads.
Search for threads in here about the LabRadar.
I published a comparative test I did using both last summer.

The learning curve is a little steeper than the optical or magnetic chronos but you will get it within a day or 2.
The trick is to get as close as possible to the chrono without subjecting it to too much blast.
A revolver needs to have the cylinder entirely in front of the unit.

This thing produces much more data than just a single velocity reading.
It can and will record the velocity continuously for the bullet's entire flight.
You can pick 5 ranges to display the velocity on the screen for each shot but hidden in a file is the whole darn thing.
This allows you to calculate the actual BC of a bullet at the range you are going to use it at.
Big bore bullets will track to longer range than those skinny .22's.

 

[hdwhit]

Used a Shooting Chrony for more than two decades. I get generally repeatable results from it.

I've hit the supports for the skyscreens a few times over the years, but I make my own replacements out of milk cartons and bamboo skewers in place of the aluminum rods and plastic screens supplied by the factory and my results are still comparable.

 

[Twoboxer]

Nemo288 gave you the details on the Labradar - I'll only correct him by saying the Prochrono is only a little off from the Labradar . . . if you set the optical chrono up carefully and identically each time.

Nearly equal in accuracy and costing less is the MagnetoSpeed, but it attaches to your barrel so (a) it changes POI and (b) can't be used on many pistols and some revolvers. If you believe in barrel tuners, then the MagnetoSpeed probably also has an affect on group size when attached directly to a barrel.

Unlike the above types, optical chronos must be set up downrange when the range is cold, are negatively affected by changes in lighting, lack of light, and weather, and for most of us require a ready supply of Purple Hearts OTOH, they cost a LOT less and can give you the info you need.

Having a CED M2, a MagnetoSpeed V1, and a Labradar . . . I can tell you there's nothing like a Labradar but it may well be overkill for your actual needs.

 

[Wise_A]

And I guess I want to be sure I am getting the most out of my loads as well as improving accuracy of my loads. would this be a reason for investing in a chronograph?

It may be an unpopular opinion, but no.

If you're interested in tighter groups, your best bet is to invest in some bags or even a Ransom Rest. The latter would be rather extreme option, and really only worth doing if you're shooting very precisely at very long ranges (think 50 yards or so).

A chronograph is really more of a diagnostic tool than anything else. If you're getting inaccurate ammunition, and you chrono the load and get erratic results, that can be meaningful. It's also handy when you're consciously working up a load--a nonlinear relationship between velocity gains and increases in charge weight is a sign that you're getting close to the top.

At the same time, you can have exceptionally accurate ammunition that produces somewhat erratic velocities. The most accurate load is rarely the one that chrono's the best.

So is a chrono worth getting? Sure. It's a fun tool to use. But it's not a tool you really need.

The powders I have on hand are CFE 2 bottles, Hp-38 2 bottles, AA#2 7 pounds, AA#5 6 pounds
universal 2 bottles, titegroup 1 bottle, SR7625 5 bottles. ramshot comp half a bottle.

You never mentioned caliber specifics, but HP-38 is stellar for producing light recoil in .45 AP. It's fairly low-impact in .38 Spl, but I've yet to really try down-loading below the starting load. Bullseye and WST have been my traditional low-recoil .38 Spl powders.

Hodgdon Clays is another noted low-recoil .45 powder, but I've never seen any on the shelves locally. And lots of guys rave about the AA powders.

my research tells me the simplest to use with less likely of shooting the Chronograph is LabRadar. So let the information flow,

It's all about the setup.

I like to place the chrono at 7 yards, and set up a blank paper target at 10. The chrono itself should be 6-8" below the height of the muzzle. An aiming point on the paper is made or placed at muzzle height--bring a tape measure to make this easier. And an adjustable-height tripod is invaluable. The gun itself is rested fairly close to the muzzle, to make it harder to drop the muzzle and hit the chrono.

Some report that placing tape on the screen legs helps with aiming, but I've never bothered.

I also shoot slowly, especially with heavier calibers that might induce a flinch.

Brand-wise, I personally quite like my Shooting Chrony. I got one with a remote display and control, which I rather like.

And for the price of one LabRadar, you can afford to shoot several less-expensive chronographs. The LabRadar really shines:

--in sub-optimal lighting (indoors, shooting close to dusk or dawn, etc)
--with very heavy rifle calibers, especially with muzzle breaks, where the muzzle blast would cause incorrect readings on a traditional chrono, or even blow it over
--on very busy ranges where setting up a traditional chrono would be a huge hassle

 

[MN2944]

I started with a Chrony about 20 years ago, moved to Oehler within a year and now have a LabRadar. I never shot any of them, but the Labradar is vastly superior due to the ease of set up. Getting an optical chronograph lined up down range is a pain when other shooters are around. The fact that you can pull the SD card and load the data analysis to an Excel spreadsheet makes it even better.

 

[fredj338]

I agree with everything wise-a said but his recommendation for any of the Chrony line. They just have crappy screens & your bullet placement has to be very precise, why they get shot, a lot.
So like most things, spending a bit more $$ will get you a better tool. If you use it a lot as I do, then I want a quality piece of gear. I have an oehler, bought after struggling with an early pact unit. It always works & easily allows me to shoot groups at 300 & still get readings.
I have only seen the Labrador in use, seemed pretty simple & nothing to align. If I was buying, it would probably be that.

 

[Tom S.]

For decades Oehler has been the gold standard that all others were measured by. New, it has a price that competes with the LabRadar but you might find a used one cheaper.

 

[JBnTx]

Get The LabRadar. It's worth every penny.

My LabRadar is my first chronograph so I have nothing to compare it to, but it has changed my entire reloading experience.

It's easy to set up, accurate and even fun to use.

It's really taught me a lot about reloading, powders and the different calibers.

Forget the traditional chronographs and get a LabRadar.

 

[AveragEd]

If you're going to be a serious chrono guy, buy an expensive one. But if you're going to be a chrono hobbyist like most of us, one of the $100 ones will serve you well. I've sprung for two "better" ones and came back to a ProChrono Digital with their Bluetooth adapter. I compared readings with a Pact (when it actually worked) and a CED M2 and the difference was in single digits so I see no need to buy anything else.

Ed

 

[Wise_A]

I agree with everything wise-a said but his recommendation for any of the Chrony line. They just have crappy screens & your bullet placement has to be very precise, why they get shot, a lot.
So like most things, spending a big more $$ will get you a better tool. If you use it a lot as I do, then I want a quality piece of gear. I have an oehler, bought after struggling with an early pact unit. It always works & easily allows me to shoot groups at 300 & still get readings.
I have only seen the Labrador in use, seemed pretty simple & nothing to align. If I was buying, it would probably be that.

Heh, I knew that was coming.

The Chrony's not been bad to me. The only time I really get a lot of errors is dusk. Since I started using it only when the sun was above the trees, I don't think I've had a single error.

But same deal as usual between me and Fred--I also would not mind an Oehler, but hey, money's money.

The LabRadar is definitely a neat piece of kit. If the cash for one isn't that dear to you, it's definitely worth it.

 

[otisrush]

Another ProChrono + Bluetooth Adapter user here. I haven't had it very long, nor used it all that much. I've never compared its results to others. I assume it's accurate enough.

I'm simply logging here this is what I'm using. It is easy to use. I like the Bluetooth adapter A LOT. It keeps string statistics easily.

I read a number of months back that there are two types of chrono users: Those that have shot their chrono and those that have not. I'm already in the former cateogry. I nicked one of the metal rods holding up one of the screens. Following that episode I got some wooden dowling in case it ever happens again.

OR

 

[Gamecock]

I like that my CED M2 has the electronics back on the table with me, and the cheaper parts down range.

One surprising cost of a chrony is that I had to buy a high quality tripod to hold it. Replacing the tripod would cost more than replacing the screens.

On the CED M2, it won't work late afternoon as the sun gets low. And screens need to be set out about as far as the cables will allow, lest reading will be of the muzzle blast. I was weirded out when I got 2,400 fps from a .38 Super.

In spite of what all kinds of people will tell you, the chronograph will not tell you PRESSURE.

Wise A gives good advice: 'It's also handy when you're consciously working up a load--a nonlinear relationship between velocity gains and increases in charge weight is a sign that you're getting close to the top.'

I had conflicting references for N105 in .38 Super with 125 gr bullets. Max was 10.4 grains, yet old VV docs said 11.0 grains. Beyond 10.4, I saw only slight increase in velocity from added powder. Hence 10.4 is correct max for my gun.

 

[carpriver]

Thanks for all the comments, you guys always provide the best information.

 

[fredj338]

Heh, I knew that was coming.

The Chrony's not been bad to me. The only time I really get a lot of errors is dusk. Since I started using it only when the sun was above the trees, I don't think I've had a single error.

But same deal as usual between me and Fred--I also would not mind an Oehler, but hey, money's money.

The LabRadar is definitely a neat piece of kit. If the cash for one isn't that dear to you, it's definitely worth it.

Just my exp using all kinds of diff chronos. I even had one with foil screen back in 1975. The Chrony line all use the same crappy screens. The bullet must be placed exactly over the center of the screens, no more than 8" high, on good days. So makes aligning at say 300yds, a bit more diff. They are accurate, just as accurate as the Oehler, but you get far more errors with the Chrony.
We did a test with a Chrony Master, CED & Oehler, back to back to back. Fired 2 strings, then swapped positions so they all had the same position once. The Oehler never, missed a shot, the CED maybe 5%, the Chrony, almost 50%. The tiny screens just don't allow any deviation.
So for the hobby guy that wants to check PF once & awhile, Chrony will work. If you use it for rifle load dev, I would pony up for at least a CED. FWIW, I also don't like shooting at the guts of the machine, so that also eliminates many of the brands where the screens & chrono are the same unit.

 

[DIYguy]

Interesting timing for this post. I just spent the last three days working up new recipes and then heading to the range each day to Chrono (New Year weekend)
I picked up the Competition Electronics Pro with the Bluetooth DigitalLink. I think the DigitalLink really makes a difference. I like being able to use my iPhone to monitor my shot strings, temp, baro and a long list of data and then send the data to my computer and load into a spreadsheet.
I did find the Chrono a bit picky about light. First day was bright sunshine and worked fine at first until angle of sun changed then gave some odd readings. 2nd and 3rd day overcast and so long as not under the range canopy worked fine.
I use a full size tripod set up about 7' to 10' out where it can get a view of the sky. Bench rest pistol, check accuracy on target, take notes. Back to shop, load up some more. Load up about (20) rounds of each bullet weight and powder weight, back to range, repeat.