Accidental discharge in Coconut Creek FL Dunkin Donuts

[BE Mike]

Military and police *generally* know when danger is immanent, and therefore have time to chamber a round.

Civilians don't have that luxury.

Having done both, I cannot agree with this statement. Ambushes, when successful, in the jungle, don't give the unit being ambushed any warning. Many times police situations escalate very quickly from nothing, and allows an officer no warning.

 

[LDM]

There is no mediocre doughnuts, some are just better than others

Doughnuts are the perfect food. They incorporate all four of the basic food groups. Sugar, salt, starch and grease.

 

[oldiegoldie]

This reply appears to show the rationale for using a double-action revolver for EDC. No lost motion or need for complex drill, such as cycling the mechanism, to prep for shooting when the situation has degenerated to an emergency/panic that requires drawing your weapon.

All of the weapons I carry are either double action only or DA/SA semi autos. I'm not going to carry a partially cocked striker or hammer fired pistol. Am aware they have all kinds of safeties but I feel more comfortable with the choices mentioned above.

 

[Whitwabit]

All of the weapons I carry are either double action only or DA/SA semi autos. I'm not going to carry a partially cocked striker or hammer fired pistol. Am aware they have all kinds of safeties but I feel more comfortable with the choices mentioned above.

My understanding of a striker fired pistol is that normal cycling of the slide pre-loads the striker but does not fully cock it. A press of the trigger completes full loading of the striker spring, and releases the striker. If this is basically correct, then this is arguably double-action by definition !

 

[Whitwabit]

I was merely stating a fact correct during my period of service. You are wasting your time arguing with that fact.

Asked a couple of guys who were over in Nam and my nephew a CMSGT who just got out of the army in December after 24 years and 4 tours to the middle east .. he had a hummer blown out from under him and 2 other guys .. asked him if he carried empty chamber while there and his answer was .. "what have you been smoking" !!

His next sentence was .. We were locked and loaded 24/7/365 .. asked my brother a marine who was in Nam in early 67 and his comments were the same .. he said there were a coupe of times he even slept with his because they had been under attack and expected another one ..

maybe here in the states but in a war zone .. no way empty chamber was carried !!

 

[W.E.G.]

This debate, and the points offered, sounds suspiciously like the other 947 ND's I've read about on the internet.

We need some NEW stupid.

This is just a re-run of old stupid.

 

[Aldonola]

"Left the scene and later turned himself in,with his lawyers present."

More than one mistake in his MO,imo.

In my cynical mind,when someone leaves the scene of any sort of accident,and later shows up at the police station,I wonder if they're waiting for drugs or alcohol to clear their system.

If your theory is true the guy was a genius to lawyer up.


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[Whitwabit]

You guys think you're cowboys!. The chances of being in an active OK Corral situation is minimal unless you're are on the job. The best weapon in any scenario is what's between your ears.

Laughter is the key to happiness

Daughter and friends were at a sports bar eating .. very upscale place with good food in a very safe part of town .. with a view of the river ..

At another large table a reunion was going on .. a man entered and walked up to that group and killed his ex wife and another person sitting at the table before an off duty FBI agent shot and killed the shooter .. police reports stated the FBI agent may have averted others being shot and a possible mass murder .. she was less then 10 feet away sitting in a booth along the wall ..

Minimal chance .. Yes .. but you can never know when or where something can happen or will happen !!! She has saved enough and will be getting her permit to carry soon ..

 

[Dvan34]

In all this post I haven't seen any reference to a 'safety'? I always carry IWB,holstered,round in chamber, safety on, and cross draw. Disengaging the safety as you acquire the target takes place rapidly, with practice!. An extra measure of security. We aren't living in the Old West anymore. A too Quick of a -Draw and engagement can result in life-changing events. Negative ones. Unless you are a LEO it may be more prudent to either get to cover or get out of Dodge.

 

[oldiegoldie]

My understanding of a striker fired pistol is that normal cycling of the slide pre-loads the striker but does not fully cock it. A press of the trigger completes full loading of the striker spring, and releases the striker. If this is basically correct, then this is arguably double-action by definition !

This is a subject that has been discussed in alot of forums. It is an argument I won't participate in. I do not carry a pistol that is partially cocked regardless what it is called.

 

[shouldazagged]

I also wonder if Mr. Barroso was a bit borracho; but like what gun he was carrying and how, we sur3ely won't know from the simplistic news coverage.

We had a case here a few years ago where a man dropped his NAA mini-revolver in a movie theater lobby and it fired. Scared the styrofoam peanuts out of some people but as I recall didn't wound anybody.

GeoJelly, I think you will like carrying the 442. The Centennial series are nice little guns, reliable, simple and fast to shoot, and damn near impossible to fire accidentally. Frees you from worries about some lawyer or prosecutor claiming you cocked the gun and negligently squeezed off a shot in single action.

 

[Whitwabit]

This is a subject that has been discussed in alot of forums. It is an argument I won't participate in. I do not carry a pistol that is partially cocked regardless what it is called.

LOL .. your the one who brought the subject up !!!

 

[Brasky]

In all this post I haven't seen any reference to a 'safety'? I always carry IWB,holstered,round in chamber, safety on, and cross draw. Disengaging the safety as you acquire the target takes place rapidly, with practice!. An extra measure of security. We aren't living in the Old West anymore. A too Quick of a -Draw and engagement can result in life-changing events. Negative ones. Unless you are a LEO it may be more prudent to either get to cover or get out of Dodge.

A safety is a useless feel good device that more times than not encourages unsafe firearm handling

Manual safeties fail. People forget whether they are on or not. I despise my firearms that have safeties and try to purchase firearms without them whenever possible

 

[Sayoc01]

Years ago I hasd a friend from Israel .We got into a discussion on cocked & locked vs unloaded chamber(his way of edc).He demoed his way,with his Hi Power....pulled,racked the slide & fired(gun empty).He was very fast.Told me hrs.practice! I guess it's how you are trained...
Jim

 

[shouldazagged]

Mister X (post #45), I'm going to make this point and then leave this thread behind.

In a thirty-year police career Old Cop twice had to use his duty weapon in gunfights to save his posterior. Both times he won. Cirillo he wasn't--who is? But if you read Old Cop's posts here you will understand why I pay attention to what he says, despite his not having a dozen notches on his gun.

He has earned better than snide questioning, like other LEO's here who have "seen the elephant". No, I'm not one. But I salute them.

I'm out.

 

[Mister X]

Mister X (post #45), I'm going to make this point and then leave this thread behind.

In a thirty-year police career Old Cop twice had to use his duty weapon in gunfights to save his posterior. Both times he won. Cirillo he wasn't--who is? But if you read Old Cop's posts here you will understand why I pay attention to what he says, despite his not having a dozen notches on his gun.

He has earned better than snide questioning, like other LEO's here who have "seen the elephant". No, I'm not one. But I salute them.

I'm out.

He made a false blanket generalization based on very minimal experience that IIRC took place decades ago. Nothing snide about adding perspective.

 

[model3sw]

I dont' understand how, while ordering coffee and a doughnut a firearm "accidently" discharges. My experience is ... if you don't pull the trigger it won't go off, but, the story is very vague about how this happened.

There is NO excuse for him leaving the scene but he is commended for coming forward immediately afterward.

I don't believe there is anyone amongst us that has not had an accidental discharge at least once in their life. For me, it was at the range, fitting a new shooter's glove and new custom target stocks for the first time with a S&W Model 41 in hand pointed safely DOWN RANGE, thank, God.

PS: watch out for those (us) old farts. LIFE is not a very long time for us if we get in trouble.

 

[Arik]

I agree with you for the most part, but there are no absolutes.

There may not be time and opportunity to chamber a round, but there may very well be. It depends on the skill of the individual and the details of the specific scenario. I've come across some highly skilled individuals who train in the Israeli method and I would never describe them as being unprepared to defend themselves in an emergency defense scenario.

You state that you have "been there", which I take to imply that we should listen to you due to personal experience, but how many times have you "been there"? How many situations as a civilian carrying concealed? Does being victorious in a few street fights make someone an authority on combatives? Very few people have been in a significant number of gunfights. Chicago P.D's Bob Stasch has been in 14. The lessons he's taken away and subsequently recommends are to practice making headshots at close-range using one-handed point shooting. 14 gunfights is fairly substantial, yet I see very few taking his advice.

I'm by no means advocating empty-chamber carry and don't chose it myself, but I do think the idea that there will never be time is false.

How many Israelis were stabbed because they weren't fast enough? Quite a lot. Israelis do that for their own reasons which have been explained and have nothing to do with accidental/negligent discharges.

GUN. LOADED. ALWAYS.

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[Mister X]

How many Israelis were stabbed because they weren't fast enough? Quite a lot. Israelis do that for their own reasons which have been explained and have nothing to do with accidental/negligent discharges.

GUN. LOADED. ALWAYS.

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And many have handled the situation just fine. I never advocated for C3, I simply challenged an incorrect assertion.

 

[hangnoose]

HOLD ON A SEC,

I believe I have a coup- BANG,OOPS.