Model 29-6 has pushoff

[WallyL]

I shoot my Model 29 single action style. Been having off and on pushoff problems. I would tighten the spring stain screw and that would fix it, however now, even when the screw is tightened all the way, I get pushoff. I am the original owner and have never tinkered with the pistol in any way. I shoot moderate loads and never any bullets over 260 grains in it. Am I correct to assume that all I need do is replace the mainspring to solve this issue?

I have a model 27, 24, & 57 that I shoot much more often...with no problems. I cannot fathom why the Model 29 would have such an issue.

 

[armorer951]

As long as you (or previous owner) have not replaced or modified the OEM rebound spring (using a lighter one), I would expect the SA bevel on the trigger needs to be sharpened. Another possibility would be dirt, shooting debris, or old lubricants compromising the action itself. These contact points are susceptible to wear just like any other interface. If the rebound spring has been lightened, or a lighter spring used, going back to the OEM spring may cure the problem.

What is the SA pull weight now?

Sharpening the trigger bevel is a very simple job, but requires the correct stone and the use of the correct procedure. As long as there is no significant damage, a trained, competent gunsmith qualified to work on revolvers should be able to fix the problem without replacement of any of the components.

The other viable option would be to call S&W Customer Service and send the gun to be serviced. While it's there, you could have them check the gun over to be sure it meets specs. 1-800-331-0852

 

[ken158]

First, keep the mainspring tight. This is not an adjustment... once you verify pushoff, it can be repaired as noted but it takes the correct stone and angle. Not a job for a novice.

 

[WallyL]

Thank you..I will contact S & W and see what they say. Just a light trigger touch will drop the hammer but the firing pin doesn't protrude through the firing pin hole. It works fine in the double action mode.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Just a light trigger touch will drop the hammer but the f i r i n g pin doesn't protrude through the firing pin hole.

That's good, the hammer block is doing it's job.

.

 

[iPac]

As long as you (or previous owner) have not replaced or modified the OEM rebound spring (using a lighter one), I would expect the SA bevel on the trigger needs to be sharpened. Another possibility would be dirt, shooting debris, or old lubricants compromising the action itself. These contact points are susceptible to wear just like any other interface. If the rebound spring has been lightened, or a lighter spring used, going back to the OEM spring may cure the problem. What is the SA pull weight now?

I believe the bold text above is most likely your issue, if you truly are the original owner and have never messed with it.

I would like to point something out though and please don't think I am being a 'smart', but if the hammer notch and trigger sear were properly fitted with positive engagement from the factory, then there will be no push off. Factory springs, lighter spring, or even no springs at all shouldn't induce push off with positive engagement. Unless I am missing something?

I know armorer951 is a wealth of S&W knowledge and I enjoy reading his insights on smithing. So figured I would inquire because lighter springs were mentioned as a possible cause.

 

[armorer951]

Actually, although the hammer block is one of the important passive safety devices built into the gun, the hammer block is not at work in this particular scenario (push off). The primary passive "safety" in the S&W revolver is the relationship between the rebound seat on the bottom of the hammer, and the hammer seat on top of the rebound slide.

If the hammer pushes off, or the gun is dropped while cocked and comes off the bevel of the trigger, both the hammer and the trigger return to their "at rest" positions. Due to the impetus from the rebound spring, the trigger and rebound slide assembly arrive ahead of the hammer, which places the hammer seat (on top of the rebound slide) in position to prevent the hammer from moving past it's "at rest" position, and the hammer nose (or the frame mounted firing pin) from entering and passing through the breechface.
Although the flag on the hammer block has been carried upward by the forward movement of the rebound slide, it is not touched by the hammer face in this particular scenario. (push off)

This mechanism, designed into the hammer and rebound works to prevent discharge of the gun, even if the hammer block has been removed.

The flag on the hammer block does serve to block the hammer's forward movement if the gun is dropped on the hammer spur while at rest, and the hammer stud were to fail. This is why the "hammerless" models like the 640, for instance, don't have hammer blocks installed. Also, this is another reason why the rebound spring should not be altered on service guns, as it plays a critical role in the successful operation of the safety devices built into each revolver.


The photos, of a de-milled 686, serve to illustrate this important design......

action at rest:




trigger back, hammer down position-firing:




hammer seat - rebound seat:

 

[WallyL]

You mention the "bold" being the issue...I am not sure what "bold" is. I am the original owner and have never changed or modified any parts in it.

I believe the bold is most likely your issue, if you truly are the original owner and have never messed with it.

I would like to point something out though and please don't think I am being a 'smart', but regardless of installing lighter springs or not, if the hammer notch and trigger sear were properly fitted with positive engagement from the factory, then there shouldn't be any push off. Not even with the springs out. Unless I am missing something?

I know armorer951 is a wealth of S&W knowledge and I enjoy reading his insights on smithing. So figured I would inquire.

 

[WallyL]

Thank you....if I cock the pistol and lightly brush against the trigger--the hammer drops. The firing pin does not protrude from the FP hole as it is blocked by the hammer block. It will function normally double action. I think I best send it to S & W and have them repair it. Once again I am the original owner and I have never tinkered with it or changed any parts. My biggest mistake was not getting a Ruger Redhawk.

 

[WallyL]

Thank you...I will not use it until it is repaired.

WallyL, welcome to the forum.

Please do not use your revolver until the push off issue has been repaired, as the gun is dangerous right now.

 

[Fastbolt]

Proper hammer & rebound seat engagement is the number one safety "mechanism" in the modern DAO/internal hammer S&W's which lack a hammer block.

In the OP's revolver? I'd stop shooting it until the revolver can be examined by a competent smith/tech and corrected.

I had a 629-4 that came with push-off as a standard feature.

Not being a S&W trained armorer at that time, I took it to the head armorer (who was a trained revolver armorer).

Unfortunately, he couldn't adjust the SA notch and correct the condition using the original hammer and trigger in that revolver frame. He said the tolerances and clearances were too far on the wrong ends of proper specs to be able to correct them to work in that frame. Fortunately, we had access to other parts appropriate for that gun, and the armorer was able to easily install them and adjust their fit so they worked in that revolver frame, and without push-off.

Moral of the story?

Sometimes it's a very simple and easy "fix" ... (using the right stone and maintaining the right angle, and not making "1 too many" strokes against the stone ) ... and sometimes it may require new parts. Letting someone do it who has the knowledge, experience and stone (and parts, if necessary), is usually the prudent course of action.

 

[murphydog]

You mention the "bold" being the issue...I am not sure what "bold" is. I am the original owner and have never changed or modified any parts in it.

If you look at post #6, member iPac put part of a quote from armorer951 in boldface (darker) letters.

Before sending your model 29 back to S & W, I personally see no harm in removing the stocks and thoroughly flushing the internals with aerosol brake cleaner via the frame opening for the hammer, lightly re-lubricating the same and seeing if the problem persists. If it solves the problem you have saved yourself (and the gun) a trip and the expense, and if it doesn't the factory will have a nice clean gun to work on. Hope everything works out for you.

 

[WallyL]

I will try that...and let you know...thanks!

If you look at post #6, member iPac put part of a quote from armorer951 in boldface (darker) letters.

Before sending your model 29 back to S & W, I personally see no harm in removing the stocks and thoroughly flushing the internals with aerosol brake cleaner via the frame opening for the hammer, lightly re-lubricating the same and seeing if the problem persists. If it solves the problem you have saved yourself (and the gun) a trip and the expense, and if it doesn't the factory will have a nice clean gun to work on. Hope everything works out for you.

 

[WallyL]

I tried and no change whatsoever...thanks for the tip.

If you look at post #6, member iPac put part of a quote from armorer951 in boldface (darker) letters.

Before sending your model 29 back to S & W, I personally see no harm in removing the stocks and thoroughly flushing the internals with aerosol brake cleaner via the frame opening for the hammer, lightly re-lubricating the same and seeing if the problem persists. If it solves the problem you have saved yourself (and the gun) a trip and the expense, and if it doesn't the factory will have a nice clean gun to work on. Hope everything works out for you.

 

[bipe215]

Thank you....if I cock the pistol and lightly brush against the trigger--the hammer drops. The firing pin does not protrude from the FP hole as it is blocked by the hammer block. It will function normally double action. I think I best send it to S & W and have them repair it. Once again I am the original owner and I have never tinkered with it or changed any parts. My biggest mistake was not getting a Ruger Redhawk.

I bet if you remove the hammer block and test it again, you will find that the firing pin still won't protrude when the hammer drops. The rebound slide is doing its job. The hammer block is back up.

 

[OldChief]

Armorer951 has his stuff together. I'm also a S&W revolver armorer and agree with all he has said in this case.

 

[austintexas]

push off

I've repaired push off by changing triggers or hammers. Sometimes both, I only had one Highway Patrolman that I couldn't fix. Sent it back to Smith & Wesson and they changed out a lot of parts. I can get away with this because years ago I bought a 4x8x4 box of Smith parts and have lots of triggers and hammer to pick thru.
SWCA 892

 

[WallyL]

Thank you...back to S & W it will soon be going!

Armorer951 has his stuff together. I'm also a S&W revolver armorer and agree with all he has said in this case.

 

[WallyL]

Maybe a foolish question...but if S & W determines that nothing was changed in it (which it wasn't) , would the repair be covered under their warranty?

I've repaired push off by changing triggers or hammers. Sometimes both, I only had one Highway Patrolman that I couldn't fix. Sent it back to Smith & Wesson and they changed out a lot of parts. I can get away with this because years ago I bought a 4x8x4 box of Smith parts and have lots of triggers and hammer to pick thru.
SWCA 892

 

[murphydog]

It was made well into the lifetime warranty era, so it 'should' be repaired at no cost to you. I'd give customer service a call and describe your situation, and they should send you a prepaid shipping label.