Issue with New 66-8 2.75"...Spitting Lead

[NCBeagle]

This is sort of an update to my Model 66-8 2.75" thread from earlier in the week. Only shot .38 through it the first day. Today, brought out a couple boxes of .357...and it spit lead in my face during the first 35 rounds of PMC 158 grain .357 (semi-jacketed). It peppered my right hand and left cheek. Took me a little while to appreciate how much lead was coming back. See photos.





I switched to Armscor 12 grain .357 (jacketed) and it was a lot better. Wonder if the jacket stops the shavings a bit. 90 rounds of .357 downrange today. Hmmmmm. Not liking this at the moment.

May as well add a gun pic. Took it to the range with a Marlin 1894cs today.

 

[Collo Rosso]

Ouch! You might have a timing issue and shaving bullets. Give S&W a call and tell them what it's doing. I have a feeling they're going to want that one back.

 

[NCBeagle]

Ouch! You might have a timing issue and shaving bullets. Give S&W a call and tell them what it's doing. I have a feeling they're going to want that one back.

I think that's what is going to happen. It was a bit much. Kind of bummed about this. Didn't need the headache. My gun shop will handle it for me, shipping back to S&W, etc.

Good thing I've got a few other revolvers to cover me until it comes back.

 

[Shark Bait]

Wow! Sorry that happened to you. I will be sure to check the timing on my 69 when it gets here. I hope S&W makes it 100% right for you.

I'm assuming that since you fired 90 rounds it was fine til near the end, right? Maybe something got tweaked.

 

[NCBeagle]

Wow! Sorry that happened to you. I will be sure to check the timing on my 69 when it gets here. I hope S&W makes it 100% right for you.

I am sure that S&W will get it squared away. It'll just take however many weeks.

 

[TeaDub]

That truly sucks. Hopefully Smith will make it right and do it quickly. Pictures of your bloody neck might speed the process along.

I was happy with handling one of the new 66s (and 69) at my LGS a couple days ago. Shooting them is the true test. I can see one of the new 2 3/4 guns in my future. I'll give Smith a while to get things right. I have no choice. I just blew my gun money on a 30 year old 65-3. These 3" revolvers are quite addictive.

 

[southpaw187]

I have a new 66-8 as well, 2.75". Does fine with 38 specials. Not with magnums. First tine out i put 42 rounds of 158gr 38sp FMJ from S&B through it, no problem. Then switched to 158gr 357 FMJ from S&B. I was getting a buch of **** thrown back in my face; i thought it was unburnt powder. The guys standing behind me at the range felt it too. Then, my cylinder locked up and could barely get it open. Went to the gun store where i bought it, gunsmith in the back showed me that at the top of the forcing cone there was bullet jacket shaved off and wedged up in there causing the cylinder to bind. He got it off and gun worked fine. Went back to range, same thing. 50+ rounds of the same 38sp no problem. Switched to the 357 and got blowback and a binded cylinder. Got a pic that time. Was able to clear out the shaved copper myself. Was going to try a couple other brands of ammo before sending it back. But im wondering now if the blowback was unburnt powder or bullet shavings; ive never seen unburnt powder cut someone. Im frustrated.

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[NCBeagle]

I have a new 66-8 as well, 2.75". Does fine with 38 specials. Not with magnums. First tine out i put 42 rounds of 158gr 38sp FMJ from S&B through it, no problem. Then switched to 158gr 357 FMJ from S&B. I was getting a buch of **** thrown back in my face; i thought it was unburnt powder. The guys standing behind me at the range felt it too. Then, my cylinder locked up and could barely get it open. Went to the gun store where i bought it, gunsmith in the back showed me that at the top of the forcing cone there was bullet jacket shaved off and wedged up in there causing the cylinder to bind. He got it off and gun worked fine. Went back to range, same thing. 50+ rounds of the same 38sp no problem. Switched to the 357 and got blowback and a binded cylinder. Got a pic that time. Was able to clear out the shaved copper myself. Was going to try a couple other brands of ammo before sending it back. But im wondering now if the blowback was unburnt powder or bullet shavings; ive never seen unburnt powder cut someone. Im frustrated.

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Wow. Your photos.

I'm also stumped. Mechanically, it's hard for me to imagine lead shavings coming off the forcing cone and hitting my face which is arm's length directly behind the forcing cone and shielded by the cylinder. But, my primers looked okay. I had no binding or other issues. Just like you, I was getting peppered with debris.

EDIT: You know what...I looked again. There is a bit of lead above the forcing cone. Hmmm. It could be coming right back at me over top of the cylinder, beneath the top strap.

 

[southpaw187]

Wow. Your photos.

I'm also stumped. Mechanically, it's hard for me to imagine lead shavings coming off the forcing cone and hitting my face which is arm's length directly behind the forcing cone and shielded by the cylinder. But, my primers looked okay. I had no binding or other issues. Just like you, I was getting peppered with debris.

In the past i have experimented with slow and fast burning powders in my 4" N frame M28. Never had a problem with fast powders but the slow powders which almost fill the case (i think it was VV N110) wouldnt get a complete burn in that 4" barrel and i would get a bunch of blowback. I can only imagine a 2.75" barrel would make that problem worse. But that shaved jacket i experienced kind of messes up my theory, and makes yours more plausible. Mind you this all happened on the same day my new to me 27-2 started experiencing a trigger return problem and the rear sight came lose on my Wilson Combat 1911. I figured i was cursed.


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[NCBeagle]

Also noticing that this is a very sharp forcing cone. No taper of any sort.

 

[southpaw187]

Issue with New 66-8 2.75"...Spitting Lead

Lead on top of your forcing cone is not a good coincidence


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[A.J.R.]

Craziness. Hopefully its a quick fix.

 

[SLT223]

Wow! Either the chambers are too high or the bbl centerline is too low.

In regards to the injuries, whenever lots of stuff has come out of a b to c gap it has hit me in face. When I started loading IMR4227 in.357 I started at the bottom of the load range. Unburned kernels came out of the b to c gap in volume. I was picking IMR 4227 out of the left side of my face for almost a week.

 

[Ashlander]

In the first photo of the 66-8 at the top of the thread there was a unusual amount of lead and burn markings on the tops of the cylinder chambers -- too much for less than a full box of magnums. Something is out of alignment.

 

[brjr51]

Wow! Either the chambers are too high or the bbl centerline is too low.

It does look that way and with two new revolvers exhibiting the problem it does not bode well. Not an easy fix if the frame is machined incorrectly. Will be watching this to see S&Ws response.
I was considering one of these but I think I'll hold off and wait to see what happens now.

 

[muddocktor]

By any chance is that S&B ammo you are using have plated bullets instead of bullets with a real jacket, southpaw187? If they are plated, then I have a possible explanation for you. I reload, and at one point had bought a bunch of Xtreme 125 grain flat point plated bullets and had loaded them with a fairly stout charge of Longshot that wasn't too far from a max load for a 125 grain bullet. And in 2 of my model 27's, the 27-5 with a traditional broach cut barrel and my 627-5 pro with the EDM cut barrel, I was having a copper buildup in the exact same place as what you are seeing and photographed. That was due to the plating failing and stripping off and building up in the same spot as you have in your pics, southpaw187. Neither pistol gives the slightest problems with polymer coated lead or true jacketed bullets, no matter how hot they are loaded. In my case at least, I was having plating stripping and buildup in the area at the top of the barrel and like you, it would bind up the cylinder. My pocketknife was able to strip out the buildup and restore my 2 guns to working order.

As for yours, NCBeagle, I don't know what is happening with yours. The PMC you are shooting should be a true jacketed bullet and shouldn't be stripping the jacket off at all. I think that a trip back to the mothership is much the best thing to do. BTW, if you call S&W directly, they will send you a call tag to ship it straight to them at their expense and you can avoid having to go to your LGS to get the pistol back to them.

 

[riverrat38]

The frames should be the same as the ones with the 4.25 inch barrel that have been on the market for several years. The only difference is that the barrel length is an inch and a half shorter. Wouldn't think that would affect the bullet to forcing cone alignment or the timing. The timing seems good on my new 66-8 snub, to the extent that I know how to tell!
I have just finished loading a hundred rounds of 125 gr plated flat point Xtreme with 6.5 gr HP-38 in MGN cases. I have also got a couple of 158 gr XTP left that I will load with about 12 gr of A#9 . I don't anticipate using many full Magnum loads, but I will likely carry with the Speer 135 gr GDSB MGN, which are far below being "full power" loads.
Hope to make it to the range on Tuesday. I can't try my BB FBI loads, since there is a no lead bullet rule at the indoor range.

Best,
Rick

 

[iPac]

Do any of you guys have range rods?

This would be a perfect test subject for them. I use crafting wooden dowels and turn them down to match the diameter of my barrel slug.

If you don't have range rods, a REALLY bright LED can be used if you have good short sighted vision. With the cylinder empty and closed, shine the LED light in the rear behind the cylinder so the light can shine through down into the barrel. Since the barrel is less than 3", you should be able to look down the barrel and visually see the chamber to bore alignment and will be able to tell if it's off. I can actually do this on my 6" barreled guns with a bright enough LED.

It is definitely weird that stuff comes back and hits your face. One would assume it wouldn't come directly back, but it does. Both your cases are definitely bullet shaving, and you even have the debris caking the forcing cone as proof. I think S&W will want these guns back and will probably be glad to hear about the issue as it seems like this might be "batch" issue.

 

[GeoJelly]

Hopefully I can add just a little to iPac's comments on checking the B/C alignment. I carry a small penlight and a new/unprimed .38 Spec case with me when I go to the LGS. Put the empty case into it and cock it so that the case is under the hammer. Shine the light from the muzzle end and check alignment. Needs to be a small/weak light or the glare from reflections make this difficult to see. Move the light around and it'll be easy to see whether the brass "ring" of the end of the shiny case is lined up with the barrel. A gunsmith I am not, but I'm going to agree with others here that your cylinder is not properly aligned with the barrel. All of this said, as noted above, a range rod would be best ...

 

[Wise_A]

Went to the gun store where i bought it, gunsmith in the back showed me that at the top of the forcing cone there was bullet jacket shaved off and wedged up in there causing the cylinder to bind. He got it off and gun worked fine. Went back to range, same thing.

I can't believe that he would have sent the gun back out without warning you not to shoot it. He's either not that competent (which I actually sort of doubt), or management at that operation is such that he'd be scared to tell you the gun needed to go back.

Both should throw up huge red flags.