Skeptic 9c
Member
S&W built the Model 650 and 651 (fixed and adjustable sights) in .22 Magnum Rim Fire. 3" barrels and very hard to find.
Geoff
Who has arthritis in the family and his hands...sigh.
Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)
- Thread starter richardw
- Start date
S&W built the Model 650 and 651 (fixed and adjustable sights) in .22 Magnum Rim Fire. 3" barrels and very hard to find.
Geoff
Who has arthritis in the family and his hands...sigh.
silversnake
Member
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Sorry to hear about your arthritis. The 650/651 are neat little revolvers. While certainly better ballistically, today I'd still take a .22 LR over either of them, now that the drought is over I know I would practice more with the cheaper ammunition.
One of my favorite revolvers is my pre-Model 43 with a 3.5" barrel, so much fun to shoot and weighs under a pound loaded. If limited by disability I would not hesitate to carry that (or maybe better yet, an 8 shot 317 or LCRx).
Cal44
Member
I just had a chance to handle a S&W 43C at a LGS.
Neat little gun. 8 shots, centennial style with no hammer. Plus it has no lock.
Also, the 351C is the same thing in 22 mag. 7 shots and also no lock.
Both looked like great carry pieces for someone who wants a 22.
Neat little gun. 8 shots, centennial style with no hammer. Plus it has no lock.
Also, the 351C is the same thing in 22 mag. 7 shots and also no lock.
Both looked like great carry pieces for someone who wants a 22.
Skeptic 9c
Member
Hummm...what ever happened to the Hi-Standard 9 shot .22 LR / .22 Magnum with interchangeable cylinders?
Geoff
Who is curious about the current company About Our Brands anyone in the biz seen their products?
Geoff
Who is curious about the current company About Our Brands anyone in the biz seen their products?
I also have one of each.I found an extreamly will fitting IWB Kydex rig for the9,but cant come up with anything in an IWB for the 22compact.I have bought a couple kydex shells that looked promising,but in the end just dont make the cut!.What do you carry it in,IWB ?
I tried a couple with disappointment. Then I found a Kydex Holster on eBay with adjustable cant. $29.97 including shipping. Figured it was worth a chance. Ended up loving the holster. Then bought a LH one without cant for $24.97 because it could be used as a OWB RH Holster. It works for the rare times I carry OWB.
If you want to find it on eBay, search "Defiant Tactical IWB Kysex IWB holster". It is a steal at the price.
Thanks.I ordered one so we will see! I had one that was made for a glock that fit pretty well after some trimming,but the threaded barrel stuck out and would rub on my leg.
shooter1911
Member
I know I'm late to this party, but I wanted to say excellent post gentlemen. At 73 years old, and an avid shooter, I feel your pain. I only suffer from one small issue which is the infamous lower thumb joint pain that comes and goes on my weak hand. I carry and shoot 45s, and a 340PD and all are pretty good kickers. I told my wife the other day that if my pain ever gets really bad I will switch to a revolver, and I would have no reservations about carrying a .22.
I think the OP has really thought his situation through, and I think his ideas are excellent. Remember, more people die each year by getting shot with a .22 than any other caliber. Why? Because most people own a .22, and obviously they will kill you.
I think the OP has really thought his situation through, and I think his ideas are excellent. Remember, more people die each year by getting shot with a .22 than any other caliber. Why? Because most people own a .22, and obviously they will kill you.
I ordered the Defiant Tactical IWB. I was a bit dissapointed that it did not cover the threaded barrel extension and I was afraid it would gouge my leg.Well,not to worry! after 3 days of carry it hasnt even touched my leg once!This is a very comfortable rig for the compact 22.The retention is a bit tight for my likeing,even with the screw bached all the way out.I think I will work on the inside of it with some 600 wet paper,then spray the hell out of it with a solvent based silicone.Do not use water based anything where a weapon is involved.
tripledipper
Member
I came across this thread because of a response from CAL44 to my inquiry about .22WMR revolvers. Will be 80 this year and did not enjoy range shooting any longer so I sold most of my collection (.38SP &.22LR), revolvers, rifles and ammo. Just kept a Model 10 for the house and a couple of kit guns 34-1 2"& 63 4" for me and a 317 Lady Smith for the wife. I was seriously think about getting rid of the 34-1 and going to a 351c/pd but you all have convinced me to stay with .22lr. Thank you for your discussion.
gman51
Member
Empty a 10 round 22lr magazine into a bad guy within a few seconds will most likely save your life. You can practice a whole lot more with a 22lr pistol than you can with any other caliber. Practice means better protection due to greater accuracy.
A hollow point 22lr round spreads diameter very well in most cases. Your hearing will probably take much less damage with a 22lr also. Recoil is practically nothing and so staying on target is much easier to do also.
I had a Phoenix HP22A pistol that never once jammed and was as accurate as I could shoot it. It was less than half the price of equivalent size pistols. Being all metal it was a bit heavier but was still not a problem.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oGB82iiDMk[/ame]
A hollow point 22lr round spreads diameter very well in most cases. Your hearing will probably take much less damage with a 22lr also. Recoil is practically nothing and so staying on target is much easier to do also.
I had a Phoenix HP22A pistol that never once jammed and was as accurate as I could shoot it. It was less than half the price of equivalent size pistols. Being all metal it was a bit heavier but was still not a problem.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oGB82iiDMk[/ame]
TomkinsSP
Member
I actually bought one of these 10 or so years ago, as one of my children was reaching an appropriate age. It came in a hardish case with an extra mag and a second longer barrel. We fed it tons of copper washed Fed, Olin and Aguila, never malfunctioned. It is a Hyundai not a Mercedes. But its a reliable Hyundai. Can't (maybe couldn't, I don't live there anymore) buy them in Mini-soda because of the 'Poor-folks-anint-buyin-no-guns-here' laws.
I really disliked the two safteys and the fact that they work opposite each other, and that you can't drop the mag without engaging one of them. But my child showed superior (to dad at least) intellegence by getting used to it in oh, one range session. Trigger, safteys, sights are plastic. Alloy may deform in strong sunlight, but through more than 5,000 rounds at least I would say: zero malfunctions.
Oh, think I paid $150 or so Christmas 2007ish.
Of course when I am too feeble to hold my M40 straight I have a 351c and a bunch of GoldDots waiting...
I really disliked the two safteys and the fact that they work opposite each other, and that you can't drop the mag without engaging one of them. But my child showed superior (to dad at least) intellegence by getting used to it in oh, one range session. Trigger, safteys, sights are plastic. Alloy may deform in strong sunlight, but through more than 5,000 rounds at least I would say: zero malfunctions.
Oh, think I paid $150 or so Christmas 2007ish.
Of course when I am too feeble to hold my M40 straight I have a 351c and a bunch of GoldDots waiting...
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TomkinsSP
Member
On the matter of hollow points expanding. Hollow points need velocity (and not to be plugged up) to expand. Out of my Marlin 60's 22 inch barrel a Super X or simmilar may become an old Roman Coin. Out of an NAA single action, well, I think someone has a YouBoob on reloading .22lr, that undeformed hp will do nicely. Velocity, its hard to achive in little short barrels, be they .251, .311, .357, .421 or .451. There is a guy here who carries a PPK/S in .22lr (and that's fine, its a neat little gun, with good shot placement it can defend you). BUT, he carries it because the box of .22 says 1510 fps, and .38s are like 750 -900 fps, so thats like ALMOST TWICE AS MANY FOOT POUNDS.
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Back in my OP that began this thread I indicated I was going to shoot Mini Mag HP. I based that decision on ballistics tests done at brassfetcher.com. While most 22 HP out of a 3.5 inch barrel at 10 feet failed to expand, the Mini Mag expanded into the classic mushroom shape. However it only penetrated ballistic gel to 9.3 inches. Meanwhile The CCI Velocitor only expanded slightly but penetrated 15 inches.
I decided on the expansion figuring that successive expanding rounds would do enough damage to make up for the modest penetration. But I do not give up researching when I still have question. My question was why did the Velocitor with its greater velocity and bullet mass did bnot expand nearly as much as the Mini Mag. It took a month to get that answer.
By being Marine persistent I got to ask that question of a knowledable ballistics person at CCI. He asked not to be identified, and he cautioned me that CCI did not recommend 22 for SD.
Then he explained the differences in expansion between Mini Mag and Velocitor. Paraphrasing his comments, the Mini Mag HP well is drilled much deeper than that of the Velocitor. The Velocitor well is really shallow by comparison. I bought some yesterday and the difference is quite noticeable.
He continued that the Mini Mag was designed to mushroom but the Velocitor was designed to only slightly expand without mushrooming. Here is the rational. The Mini Mag is a lighte bullet (34gr) at lower velocity than Velocitor and so needs greater expansion to do its damage. The Velocitor has greater mass at 40gr and greater velocity. While the Mini Mag will make a greater permanent wound cavity during its lesser penetration, the Velocitor will make a lesser permanent wound cavity but over more penetration. So the trade off is wider PWC with less penetration or narrower PWC with greater penetration.
Of course he would not make a recommendation. I do not blame him. I did ask about the hyper velocity Stinger a 32 grain bullet with an extra dose of powder in its longer casing. He said the aim of the Stinger was to achieve faster velocity and longer range using a rifle. At short distances out of a handgun it will not achieve the characteristics of either the Mini Mag or Velocitor.
So I have 150 rounds of Velocitor now, and I am going to do some non paper target testing of it and Mini Mag HP and RN. I have setup a blog titled 22defense but have not published it yet. I will publish the results of my testing later this month, and I will announce the publication and results here.
I decided on the expansion figuring that successive expanding rounds would do enough damage to make up for the modest penetration. But I do not give up researching when I still have question. My question was why did the Velocitor with its greater velocity and bullet mass did bnot expand nearly as much as the Mini Mag. It took a month to get that answer.
By being Marine persistent I got to ask that question of a knowledable ballistics person at CCI. He asked not to be identified, and he cautioned me that CCI did not recommend 22 for SD.
Then he explained the differences in expansion between Mini Mag and Velocitor. Paraphrasing his comments, the Mini Mag HP well is drilled much deeper than that of the Velocitor. The Velocitor well is really shallow by comparison. I bought some yesterday and the difference is quite noticeable.
He continued that the Mini Mag was designed to mushroom but the Velocitor was designed to only slightly expand without mushrooming. Here is the rational. The Mini Mag is a lighte bullet (34gr) at lower velocity than Velocitor and so needs greater expansion to do its damage. The Velocitor has greater mass at 40gr and greater velocity. While the Mini Mag will make a greater permanent wound cavity during its lesser penetration, the Velocitor will make a lesser permanent wound cavity but over more penetration. So the trade off is wider PWC with less penetration or narrower PWC with greater penetration.
Of course he would not make a recommendation. I do not blame him. I did ask about the hyper velocity Stinger a 32 grain bullet with an extra dose of powder in its longer casing. He said the aim of the Stinger was to achieve faster velocity and longer range using a rifle. At short distances out of a handgun it will not achieve the characteristics of either the Mini Mag or Velocitor.
So I have 150 rounds of Velocitor now, and I am going to do some non paper target testing of it and Mini Mag HP and RN. I have setup a blog titled 22defense but have not published it yet. I will publish the results of my testing later this month, and I will announce the publication and results here.
Mixed magazine of 5 Velocitor's and 5 Mini-Mags with a Mini or Velocitor in the chamber?
Sounds like very viable load to me.
By the way great info...... new info to me...........
one eye joe
US Veteran
DO YOURSELF A BIG FAVOR, AND STAY AWAY FROM ANY TAURUS PRODUCT ! ! !
SPEND THE EXTRA MONEY, AND GET YOURSELF A BERETTA, IF THIS STYLE OF WEAPON APPEALS TO YOU......
TomkinsSP
Member
Ah, the Tip Barrel Berettas. Cute little things, I have had at various times a .22 short 950 Jetfire (not a 950S), the 3032 Tomcat in .32acp, 21A Bobcats in .22lr and .25acp. They are Berettas, I think Beretta makes great guns, fun to play with. Just a few thoughts about carring them for SD. I am an old revolver guy, I don't like having to disengage a saftey. The Bobcats and Tomcats are DA/SA so you can ignore it I guess, the Jetfire was SA only, newer 950S models have a saftey so you can pretend its a 1911. The 950 is supposed to be drawn and cocked before being fired. Each of mine would fire and fire until a round eventually got stuck in a dirty barrel. No extractor, no ejector, can't tap and rack, you need a pencil and Hoppes. On the .22s they always fired a box (50) before a round stuck, sometimes two boxes (100), so I guess if you kept it perfectly clean it would be unlikley to jam up until after you Mozambiqued the 17th ninja attacking you. Like I said I am a revolver guy, but I do have a few of those newfanged auto-loading pistols, they will be worth something in a few years when the fad dies out and nobody is making them anymore.
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Just found an illustration in the CCI catalog of a fully expanded Velocitor as mentioned in my post above in #134. It looks like a wadcutter with a wide brim. I can see where that expansion coupled with the very deep penetration of the Velocitor would do a lot of damage.
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