FFL incapacitated or dead. What to do?

[Rule3]

I had a similar experience back when I was a non-immigrant alien. Very helpful.

ATF or INS

So you got "in" before the Wall?? j/k

 

[bushmaster1313]

Call your friends at BATF. That's the only true answer you'll get that will get you your gun and keep you out of the hoosegow(?) in the process.
There has to be a procedure. You just need to find the person who knows what it is.

This makes sense to me

 

[bushmaster1313]

Well I think a lot depends on whether the FFL was incapacitated before or after the gun was logged in. If before log in, I would instruct the widow to ship the gun (at my expense) back to grabagun and then start over. If the gun was logged in.......Well I just don't know. It is now on his books and I would coordinate with the ATF and the estate (or curatorship) laws of the state of residence. Assuming sole proprietor. I would think that , as in law with a sole practitioner, there is a designated FFL to take over just in this instance-but then again many people just don't think that far in advance. My wife ia a licensed attorney so we have a succession plan in case something happens to me, but I imagine that most solos don't and it can be a real nightmare!
Good luck-and remember it is not a financial catastrophe by any means. You are only out less than a grand and although aggravating to the extreme, it is not life changing.
This fits squarely in the category of "Stuff happens"

I would not tell anyone to do anything until BATFE said I could

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Well I think a lot depends on whether the FFL was incapacitated before or after the gun was logged in. If before log in, I would instruct the widow to ship the gun (at my expense) back to grabagun and then start over. If the gun was logged in.......Well I just don't know. It is now on his books and I would coordinate with the ATF and the estate (or curatorship) laws of the state of residence. Assuming sole proprietor. I would think that , as in law with a sole practitioner, there is a designated FFL to take over just in this instance-but then again many people just don't think that far in advance. My wife ia a licensed attorney so we have a succession plan in case something happens to me, but I imagine that most solos don't and it can be a real nightmare!
Good luck-and remember it is not a financial catastrophe by any means. You are only out less than a grand and although aggravating to the extreme, it is not life changing.
This fits squarely in the category of "Stuff happens"

That's interesting.

The plot thickens. It was delivered to the FFL's home but his wife signed for it. I'd have to guess the firearm was not logged in since he was already in the hospital. Elderly and may not survive.

This is a close friend's gun but I also deal with a one man FFL operation so I was curious to know what were the actual steps involved to get the firearm transferred. It's crossed my mind a couple times... particularly dealing with Class III. What if...

 

[oneounceload]

The "item" can sit in limbo for who knows how long??

If you want to pay for something that is never received, than that's your choice. A transfer can not be made until the Govt or the Law makes a decision.

It's what I would do, not what you have to do.

But you cannot blame the seller or penalize him - he is then out the goods AND the money - this is all on your end after the seller's portion has been concluded successfully.

 

[Tyrod]

This story is a recount from a work acquaintance whose uncle was a Class 3 Title II NFA dealer. The fellow specialized in Pre Hughes Amendment NFA firearms. He was a sole proprietor even though his wife worked with him in his store. Well, needless to say, the fellow went on a long dirt nap. The wife is now stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars of FA weapons. They were marital assets and the state awarded her the assets of the gun store. But, because she didn't have any kind of FFL she couldn't sell any of the NFA weaponry.

I wish there was a happy ending to this story. But, I simply don't know how it ended up. I do know that at one point another NFA dealer offered her pennies on the dollar for the inventory. She was afraid to contact the ATF because ownership transfer taxes nor any other NFA requirements had been met. So, there may be a room full of NFA weapons sitting somewhere in South Carolina that are on the pre-ban "list". I have no clue as to their exact whereabouts or how one would go about acquiring one or more. I strongly suspect the wife is doing her dirt nap now as well.

 

[Rule3]

But you cannot blame the seller or penalize him - he is then out the goods AND the money - this is all on your end after the seller's portion has been concluded successfully.

Not really, the firearm has not been transferred, it is I believe the receiving FFL property until a 4473 is done.

Only until the situation is resolved.



Lets say I order from Brownells, $500 order (not a gun) they charge my credit card.
Package is delivered to my door, I am not home and some thief steals it.
FedEx states it is delivered, not their problem,
Brownells sent it, Not their problem.
So it is now my problem,

I call the Police, not much they can do.

I call VISA OR MASTERCARD

MEMBERSHIP HAS IT'S PRIVILEGES

But this is not really the issue here. so moving on.

 

[oneounceload]

Not the same thing - the package wasn't stolen or delivered to you damaged. The legal issue is on YOUR end of the transaction. The seller is under no obligation. His part of the contractual arrangement was handled legally, properly, and in a timely manner.

 

[bushmaster1313]

I have sometimes wondered what I should do if someone were to mistakenly ship a gun to me direct instead of to the local FFL

 

[JSR III]

I agree with those that feel that the Sellers obligations have been met. He sent the gun after payment was received and it was received by the Buyers FFL. Whether logged in or not the Seller has done all that was asked. Lets just say that the gun had a scope. The receiving FFL opens the package and drops the gun on the floor breaking the scope. Would the Seller be obligated to replace the scope? I don't think so.

The failure to complete the transfer to the Buyer is on the Buyers end not the Sellers. Had the gun not made it to the destination then maybe the Seller would have some blame as the shipper but the gun arrived and the ball is in their court now. The receiving FFL's inability to transfer the gun is on him or his heirs. The legal ramifications can only be solved by the BATFE.

 

[ladder13]

Is the sellers responsibilty done if he sends you a gun not as advertised, or has issues? How do I determine if no issues exist if I can't see the merchandise?
My FFL does no paperwork until he gets my ok, and if not the gun goes back. Of course if the seller said all sales final that's a horse of a different color.

 

[hittman77]

I call VISA OR MASTERCARD

MEMBERSHIP HAS IT'S PRIVILEGES

Each state of course is very different but ..... where I'm at Brownell's has at least a civil case against you and maybe fraud or theft by deception.

People really really need to think things through and consult their "powers that be".

And I agree ..... bad situation for all involved. Cajun is right ..... inconvenience at most and not the end of the world.

 

[oneounceload]

Your FFL MUST log the gun in, regardless of whether or not you return it as part of a non-firing inspection period or not.

No one said you couldn't SEE the gun - you just can't take possession of it at the moment.

 

[oneounceload]

I have sometimes wondered what I should do if someone were to mistakenly ship a gun to me direct instead of to the local FFL

You would immediately take the unopened package to your FFL where the transaction process would take place.

 

[snuffy51]

I read all these threads, sounds like some good advice in some of them. Only thing I can add is you might be starting a run of bad luck, be real careful around guns for awhile, maybe. Sure hope you get everything straightened out to your satisfaction.