I should have probably said ,ore subject to pressure spikes.
40 Shield Kaboom information to consider
- Thread starter rbuzz
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I should have probably said ,ore subject to pressure spikes.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Ah, science. OK, I like to learn. Why is the .40S&W more subject to pressure spikes than any other round?
Dvan34
Member
I stopped using the 180gr. last year after finding that qualification was becoming too painful. 165gr, or even lighter. But it has been difficult to find them in the stores. .40 Defensive rounds have been easier to locate in lighter loads.
Thanks for posting that old opinion piece about the theoretical superiority of a 165 grain projectile vs.the time-tested 180 grain standard. It confirmed everything I always held as true about the 40 caliber 180 grain factory load as being one of the best all-around choices of handgun cartridges for offensive and defensive use for law enforcement and for self defense use by civilians.
Unsupported chambers, reloading tired brass, bullet setback from extensive re-chambering, pressure spikes, kabooms and all the other "worries" about the safety of 40 caliber guns and ammunition makes for great reading but, like most other fantasy side trips, has little to do with reality.
Unfortunately, in today's culture, fear-mongering tech articles like that one seem to stimulate something in the readers brain that craves more and more of these types of hypothetical pseudo-scientific discussions which then cause believers to make irrational decisions like dumping their 180 stash and running out to buy 165's!
After 30 years of the 40 caliber 180 grain proof of performance in dozens of brands and models of handguns and countless shooting tests and actual encounters, the 40/180 track record is everywhere. It's just about the most optimum handgun performer!
Not everybody can handle it and not everybody likes it but that doesn't change the fact that it's one of the few handgun cartridge choices the FBI has ever gotten right. Yup, the exalted FBI, the highly politicized and ethically corrupted FBI, the same FBI that supplied it's agents with 38 revolvers for more than 10 years after hundreds of local-yokel police departments had recognized the revolver's shortcomings and switched to semi-autos, the same FBI that had reluctantly switched to 9mm semis then abandoned them and adopted 10mm semis then abandoned them and adopted 40/180 semis then abandoned them and has now re-adopted the previously abandoned 9mm semis, all at great expense to us, the bill paying taxpayers! Oh, yeah! Sure! If the FBI does it then I want to do it, too! Uh-huh.
Come on, people, stop drinking the koolaid while cringing in the dark corners of your basements. There's nothing wrong with the 40/180 combination other than every once in awhile somebody that shouldn't have a gun or a reloading press gets their hands on one and another pseud-scientist fear-mongering publisher gets loose.
Unsupported chambers, reloading tired brass, bullet setback from extensive re-chambering, pressure spikes, kabooms and all the other "worries" about the safety of 40 caliber guns and ammunition makes for great reading but, like most other fantasy side trips, has little to do with reality.
Unfortunately, in today's culture, fear-mongering tech articles like that one seem to stimulate something in the readers brain that craves more and more of these types of hypothetical pseudo-scientific discussions which then cause believers to make irrational decisions like dumping their 180 stash and running out to buy 165's!
After 30 years of the 40 caliber 180 grain proof of performance in dozens of brands and models of handguns and countless shooting tests and actual encounters, the 40/180 track record is everywhere. It's just about the most optimum handgun performer!
Not everybody can handle it and not everybody likes it but that doesn't change the fact that it's one of the few handgun cartridge choices the FBI has ever gotten right. Yup, the exalted FBI, the highly politicized and ethically corrupted FBI, the same FBI that supplied it's agents with 38 revolvers for more than 10 years after hundreds of local-yokel police departments had recognized the revolver's shortcomings and switched to semi-autos, the same FBI that had reluctantly switched to 9mm semis then abandoned them and adopted 10mm semis then abandoned them and adopted 40/180 semis then abandoned them and has now re-adopted the previously abandoned 9mm semis, all at great expense to us, the bill paying taxpayers! Oh, yeah! Sure! If the FBI does it then I want to do it, too! Uh-huh.
Come on, people, stop drinking the koolaid while cringing in the dark corners of your basements. There's nothing wrong with the 40/180 combination other than every once in awhile somebody that shouldn't have a gun or a reloading press gets their hands on one and another pseud-scientist fear-mongering publisher gets loose.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Indeed, properly loaded and crimped and it should be OK. I'm just not a fan of ANY max load which is what the 180gr .40S&W rounds are. Before you ask, no, I don't like or see the value of any +P loads and certainly not +P+ loads.
I'll shoot what I have, but I'm not buying any more 180gr loads. Why? Yeah, because every catastrophic failure I've seen has been with that load. I haven't seen a single one with 165gr. That's not to say it doesn't exist, I've just not seen it. Call me what you want, but I see no value in pushing the limits.
As a few others have said here, bullet setback is most likely the cause of most, if not all kabooms. With inexperienced reloaders also to blame.
I doubt dropping a mere 15 grains in bullet weight is going to make you safe and worry free.
I tend to prefer 165 grain over 180 but do still shoot 180's on occasion.
Don't rechamber rounds repeatedly, and visually check each one that you are going to run through your pistol.
A round that has the bullet shoved in an extra 1/8" will be obvious, and would produce much higher pressures than one still seated to the correct length.
And for reloaders, double check the powder level before seating, a double charge would be no fun at all.
I doubt dropping a mere 15 grains in bullet weight is going to make you safe and worry free.
I tend to prefer 165 grain over 180 but do still shoot 180's on occasion.
Don't rechamber rounds repeatedly, and visually check each one that you are going to run through your pistol.
A round that has the bullet shoved in an extra 1/8" will be obvious, and would produce much higher pressures than one still seated to the correct length.
And for reloaders, double check the powder level before seating, a double charge would be no fun at all.
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martybee
Member
I am also a fan of the .40 S&W 180gr. combination. Have fired thousands of rds. in my SDve and MP handguns. Never an issue!
ScaryWoody
Member
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Does the M&P have a fully supported chamber? I have a couple of Glock 23 and those chambers are not fully supported. I shoot the 180g as a steady diet. I don't use reloaded or re-manufactured.
The article makes a whioe lot of conclusions with out anything to support them. Not to mention some some flat out wrong statements.
165 grain bullets would be just as likely to "set back" as a 180 grain bullet. The brass is the exact same. The unsupported chambers are the same. Max pressure is the same, etc.
If you prefer 165 over 180, that's great, but it's not magical.
Of course more guns blow up using 180 grain bullets - more 180 grain bullets are shot...
165 grain bullets would be just as likely to "set back" as a 180 grain bullet. The brass is the exact same. The unsupported chambers are the same. Max pressure is the same, etc.
If you prefer 165 over 180, that's great, but it's not magical.
Of course more guns blow up using 180 grain bullets - more 180 grain bullets are shot...
Rastoff
US Veteran
Do you know what it means to be fully supported? Lots complain about chambers not being fully supported, but it turns out that most handguns have chambers that aren't fully supported.
Tell me, which of these are fully supported and which are not?
wingriderz
Member
Love my wheels not ready to get rid of all semi. The xds 45 acp was a nightmare first 500
If you compare it the 40 to the other popular pistol rounds, it is a high pressure round. Not the highest.
The 40 is higher than 38 special, Higher than 45, higher than 380.
You are correct 9mm is the same pressure, since I dont reload for 9mm anymore, its been awhile since I looked at my reloading manual on that round for pressure
But I never have seen or heard about bullet setback issues on a 9mm, which causes a high pressure spike. (Though Im sure it could and does happen) There is no "science" that I could find, but it seems the number of "kabooms" are higher in 40s (But...... I believe the bulk of these numbers and any other rounds pistol or rifle kabooms are squibs)
I also have never have personally seen case blowouts on a 9mm, 380, or a 45. As a reloader I do grab brass. Its very rare, but I have seen them on 40. (Not my reloads)
Either way, I am going to continue to reload and shoot my 180g 40s. I load some lower power 40s for my wife and others sensitive to recoil. I load my practice rounds to close to full power. I load my JHPs to right at Max (I still mostly carry factory HSTs though) I have moved to 40 pistols only at this point, I will continue to gage setback, and rotate my carry ammo
I am a careful reloader, but I watch the 40 a little bit closer
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Rastoff
US Veteran
I have seen my fair share of 9mm cartridges with set back bullets. Obviously none of those were fired. I've also seen at least one blown up 9mm. Of course the evidence was inconclusive, but in that case I believe it was an over pressure round. There wasn't a bulge indicating an obstruction.
I have seen case blow outs on .223Rem, 9mm, .45GAP, .40S&W. I didn't see the event, but have found all these in brass at the range.
I'm not suggesting that anyone else should drop the 180gr bullets, just that I have. I still have some factory 180gr loads and will probably fire them one day. I'm simply not going to buy any more. I just don't see the value because when I have seen or heard about a catastrophic failure in a .40S&W, it is always a 180gr round. Call me paranoid, but it is what it is.
pjames32
Member
I've shot thousands of rounds thru my various .40 cal pistols. Only one is a Glock and those were not cast. My 170gr mold throws my alloy at 176gr+/-. I guess until I see more science based conclusions I'll continue to shoot this bullet in my wife's Shield and my 40 compact.
