327 Federal is the best small revolver cartridge for defense??

[Walkingwolf]

well you get a lot more power out of the Sledge/hammer vs the 5lb rock due to the leverage/velocity provided by the handle....... now the optimum handle length ....... may limit concealed carry.......

The 327 may benefit from a tapered barrel...... for sticking up attacker's nose!

Footnote: IIRC: war hammers were popular against plate armor

Initially we killed cattle with a 22 short, then switched to a sledge to knock them unconscious. The USDA inspectors wanted inspect the brains sans 22 bullet. Eventually we went with a pneumatic impact stun gun.

 

[peyton]

Well, Ruger has started producing the GP100 with a 5 inch barrel in .327 magnum, sad that S&W refuses to. Ruger has kept the 327 alive.

I paid hard earn money for my 632-1 a month ago I attribute it to my stubbornness not want a dang big hole in front of the front sight, I had a new one in my hand when they first came out and I set it back down

 

[ChiefTJS]

Played with the .327 when it first come out, actually had a custom SP made because it was taking too long for the guns to become available and back then you had to buy factory rounds to reload because Starline didn't make brass yet. I was .32 crazy for several years but in the end the only benefit (to me) was the sixth round in a J sized gun. If you need more than five then you also need more than six.

For me I figured out that the .38/357 does everything and more than the .327 ever will at much lower pressures and with much greater component and firearm choices.

 

[epj]

Not got much use for J frames these days. I would have some interest in a K frame 4" or maybe 6" in 327. 7 shot I would think. Adjustable sights of course. Let's do a shrouded ejector rod and skip the full underlug. As a purely SD round, I see some of the same issues the .357 has. Just to check out my theory, let's get some of you guys wanting light weight short barrel models to do some testing. Set up a target in a dimly lit bedroom sized enclosure and empty your lightweight J into the target as rapidly as possible. When you can see and hear again, post a range report.

 

[SA1911]

Cal44,

You're falling into the dangerous trap of rationalizing a cartridge you like into what it can never become.

Were I you, I'd learn how humans lose ability to remain a threat.

The handgun and cartridge by which all self-defense cartridges are measured is the 1911-A1 .45 ACP. That's my preferred gun for saving my life. But it's heavy although very easy to conceal. So I have had to compromise: Sig P239 .40 S&W 180 grain Fed HST Tactical rounds.

BTW, when I have carried a 1911-A1, it was loaded with 230 grain W-W white box ammo. I've never felt the least bit vulnerable.

In the very rare times I've carried a .357 Mag for self-defense, it was ALWAYS loaded with the FBI load.

That so many people have bought in to the fable of mythical .357 Mag proves the validity of the 10% tipping point: Minority Rules: Scientists Discover Tipping Point for the Spread of Ideas | News & Events

Chamber pressure neither indicates nor predicts *******.

If you're sold on the mysticism of the .327 Federal, I'm good. It's your life you're protecting. But were I you, I'd get straight with human incapacitation before making a decision.

One last point: revolvers are not wise self-defense choices. Go with tactically superior semiautos.

 

[Joe4d]

I dont really see the logic in arguing the merits of 5-6 shots , and power levels in snub nose revolvers in these calibers.
You have to move up to full power 357 ammo with its much much greater recoil that almost noone uses in them
Quite a few 3-4" 9mm's will surpass the ballistics of any 38, or 327 loading and many 357 magnum loads fired from snubbies.
And do it in a flatter, more streamlined package, with a better trigger and better sights . Gun same OAL as a 442 would have a 4" barrel and throw 124's at over 1200 fps,, and carry 8 or so rounds AND do it with alot less recoil.|
People that favor Jframes, (38 and 327) favor them for reasons other than capacity and power. So arguing about J frame merits based on capacity and power isnt very logical.

 

[Beemer-mark]

I am inclined to agree with you in a light J frame 327 being better than a 38 special. The extra round, the lighter bullet giving less felt recoil, yet substantial power are all pluses over a 38 J. If they came out with an alloy framed 327 I would probably get one. Beat my 36-1 and my 640-1. My only alloy J frame is a pre model 38 Bodyguard that is to nice to carry.

I presently carry a 2 1/2" 325. A 6 shot 45acp. Light powerful , just a bit bulky and recoil is substantial.

If you think recoil is less than a 38 Special you'll be sadly mistaken. Not sure if the recoil is any different than your 45acp.

At least IMHO owning both calibers.

 

[Mister X]

The handgun and cartridge by which all self-defense cartridges are measured is the 1911-A1 .45 ACP.

One last point: revolvers are not wise self-defense choices. Go with tactically superior semiautos.

Disagree, Disagree and Disagree

 

[SA1911]

Hi Mister X,

I'm good.

It'd be hard to argue against a .44 Special or .45 Colt. However, they're large and heavy handguns that hold only 6 rounds and take far too long to reload another 6.

 

[steelslaver]

My 325 45 acp revolver is lighter than my alloy framed 1911 commander, Both are about 6 oz heavier than my 386 44 special. I am no slouch when reloading my 325 with full moons.

I am very familiar with the S&W revolver platform and would get a light 327 J frame for carry in light weight summer clothing. Would I expect the same effectiveness as my 45 or 44. No, but everything in life is a compromise. Inmost any situation I can imagine myself becoming involved it it would serve, at least better than something I decided not to carry because of size or weight.

As far as a 327 recoiling worse than my 325 acp I don't hardly think so.

 

[Jim NNN]

Taurus dealers had discounted their small .327 revolvers to the very low $200 right as they were being phased out of the line. Really wish I'd bought one. If a Ruger LCR can ever be had at a low price in that caliber, I might buy one.

 

[Mister X]

Hi Mister X,

I'm good.

It'd be hard to argue against a .44 Special or .45 Colt. However, they're large and heavy handguns that hold only 6 rounds and take far too long to reload another 6.

It's not just an issue of auto vs revolver since I don't see the M1911 and .45 ACP as being the standard.

The World had moved on to striker-fired pistols, mainly Glocks and/or their clones and chambered in 9mm... GABE SUAREZ BLOG - A Pistol For the Present Day Gunfighter (Why I carry a Glock)

There's no practical reason for choosing .45 ACP over 9mm and in terms of Worldwide standards, 9X19 is it. Looking at what has the best one shot stop record and there is very little difference between .45, .40, 357 and 9mm, but the top spot is not occupied by .45 ACP.... Handgun Cartridge Power Chart - Condensed Version

In terms of wheelguns, I have little use for large revolvers, but if you are going to reference tactics, an enclosed hammer snub is able to do things in ECQ/extreme close-quarter scenarios that no auto can.

And speaking of reloading, see how many examples you can find where a civilian performed a reload in a self-defense encounter.

 

[UncleEd]

If S&W sees Ruger sales booming with the .327, then
Smith will figure out a dozen models in all sorts of
metallurgy, sights, grips and barrel designs.

And each will be introduced on a monthly basis with
ads in the gun magazines.

 

[springer99]

If S&W sees Ruger sales booming with the .327, then
Smith will figure out a dozen models in all sorts of
metallurgy, sights, grips and barrel designs.

And each will be introduced on a monthly basis with
ads in the gun magazines.

Yep, whether or not there is really a need for it or not! If the biggest advantage of the .327 is gaining 1 more round in a snubbie, I think Kimber has already come up with the right answer

 

[Walkingwolf]

If S&W sees Ruger sales booming with the .327, then
Smith will figure out a dozen models in all sorts of
metallurgy, sights, grips and barrel designs.

And each will be introduced on a monthly basis with
ads in the gun magazines.

That's possible, but seems that S&W has always gone their own way. Sometimes that has backfired on them, sometimes not. The SP101 is a stout handgun it should handle the 45K pressure, not so sure about a J frame, especially a light one. Thing is the LCR has a steel subframe in the mag series, it is heavier than the 38 spl, and 22 mag, and lr.

Charter Arms marketed a 327 sub compact revolver in six shot, it was not on the market long. Something concerned them so much they stopped also making the 32 HR in a six shot. 45K is darn near rifle pressure, only the most stout of firearms are built for 9X23, another round in the rifle range pressure. 9X23 without changes in springs will even beat the heck out of a 1911 frame.

Personally I would not trust a LCR in 327, I would not trust it in a J frame. And considering the problems Smith had with the 19 steady diet of 357 with a pressure of only 35K, I will be darned if I would risk 45K.

 

[Green Frog]

If S&W sees Ruger sales booming with the .327, then
Smith will figure out a dozen models in all sorts of
metallurgy, sights, grips and barrel designs.

And each will be introduced on a monthly basis with
ads in the gun magazines.

Would that you were correct, Uncle Ed. I fear that there are at least 3 factors working against us here.
1) Our idea of "sales booming" probably won't match up with the concept held by corporate bean counters at Springfield.
2) The introductory pricing from S&W of these hypothetical new models would be done on the assumption that there would be a huge demand from sheep willing to pay ridiculous prices for anything the factory would deign to sell them... so they would be discontinued quickly because of "lack of demand."
and worst of all
3) The modern made S&Ws would have all of the faults and foibles of modern S&W manufacturing, and most of the enthusiasts who would be attracted to the concept would have problems accepting MIM and IL among other improvements, also contributing to "lack of demand."

If we could go back to about 1989-90 and introduce the Model 16-4 as it was produced then, but in 327 FM instead of 32 H&R and not throttle the market with a short run and pre-planned cut off, I honestly believe they would sell briskly. In today's market with today's corporate realities, not so much. This is not a whine or a b1+¢h, just my evaluation based on observation and experience.

Green Frog

 

[Florida J Frame]

Cal44,

Debating leads to knowledge...according to Socrates. We already have that knowledge. The .38 Special FBI load is that only way to go in short barreled revolvers. I'd much rather have five rounds of the FBI Load than 6 rounds of anything smaller. But neither are optimum for saving my life.

I think you will find that the FBI load was replaced years ago with the Speer Gold Dot SB +P in every PD that still allows .38 SP to be carried. It has a pretty good record on the street.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Police tend to want the latest gadget, or cartridge on the market. The FBI load is also banned in some indoor ranges. Personally I believe if it ain't broke don't fix it. Many veteran police trust the FBI load.

 

[Dieseltech56]

I read this whole post (I think) and I don't believe anyone mentioned the one big drawback to using the .327 as a self defense cartridge.

The noise. That high psi cartridge is very loud in my opinion. I even got stopped at the range shooting my SP-101 one day. A curious onlooker couldn't believe the noise that was coming from that little pistol. I wouldn't be surprised if the factory .357 loadings are not as loud as a factory 327 loading.

Consider my findings with the .327 100gr American Eagle load. 14.7 grains of highly compressed powder. You probably aren't going to find a bigger powder charge in a self defense .357 load.

 

[Green Frog]

I read this whole post (I think) and I don't believe anyone mentioned the one big drawback to using the .327 as a self defense cartridge.

The noise. That high psi cartridge is very loud in my opinion. I even got stopped at the range shooting my SP-101 one day. A curious onlooker couldn't believe the noise that was coming from that little pistol. I wouldn't be surprised if the factory .357 loadings are not as loud as a factory 327 loading.

Consider my findings with the .327 100gr American Eagle load. 14.7 grains of highly compressed powder. You probably aren't going to find a bigger powder charge in a self defense .357 load.

If you are using it as a self defense (anti-personnel) round, a loud noise can be pretty intimidating to whoever you are defending yourself from. My 4" K-frame has been known to drive a couple of my best shooting buds off the line when I unleash a few rounds of the Heavy Duty Factory stuff from Federal. Oh yeah, did I mention the awesome way that hollow point expands and dumps energy? I carry FBI loads in my Model 60-4, and my "Model 616" gets Federal's high performance defense loads. I'm willing to bet on either for all the stopping power I should need.

Froggie