My Latest N Frame Project.. The beginning---Update: May 23rd, 2018!!
- Thread starter les.b
- Start date
OP
Thanks, Iggy, but if you hadn't called my attention to that barrel for sale, and if I hadn't seen your PM in time, I wouldn't be doing this right now. Also, if dacoontz hadn't sold the barrel, you wouldn't have seen it...so a big thanks to both of you guys, and all of the other folks who have encouraged me in this project.
As you say, a little more tweeking....
Best Regards, Les
Les,
Well it took us long enough since you first saw mine until we got it done, but I'm plumb tickled to see it finally happen. Besides, maybe now you'll quit drooling on mine.
You've got a winner there for sure.
I don't know as you're even going to have to refinish it.. It's just looking like an old warrior that's been to the mountain and back.
Well it took us long enough since you first saw mine until we got it done, but I'm plumb tickled to see it finally happen. Besides, maybe now you'll quit drooling on mine.
You've got a winner there for sure.
I don't know as you're even going to have to refinish it.. It's just looking like an old warrior that's been to the mountain and back.
Last edited:
Nice presentation. Congrats..........
Les,
It looks like it was made that way, and looks great. All I can think is that a lot of old timers that carried those ole' hog legs after the war, wish they had yours!
I suggest shortening the extractor rod on the back end, otherwise you'll lose 1/3 of the mushroom knob. And of course the ctr pin from the front end.
Also you might want to swap the front locking bolt from the long barrel; you may have less adjustment to make to the Ext rod.
It looks like it was made that way, and looks great. All I can think is that a lot of old timers that carried those ole' hog legs after the war, wish they had yours!
I suggest shortening the extractor rod on the back end, otherwise you'll lose 1/3 of the mushroom knob. And of course the ctr pin from the front end.
Also you might want to swap the front locking bolt from the long barrel; you may have less adjustment to make to the Ext rod.
Last edited:
OP
Thanks for the tips, Jim!! I'm not going to do any more tonight, even though I'd like too, as I am getting sleepy, and don't want to make any mistakes. I've been doing a bunch of outdoor chores, and want to be able to focus on the "home stretch" here...
I agree with Iggy, I don't think that it is going to need to be refinished, the barrel blue actually matches the frame better than the photos show, and it just looks like it was always in this barrel length.
I love snubbies as you probably remember, all the way from my 3 1/2" N frame .357 down to my little 2" I and J frames. I have never really cared for longer barrels, even though I have a few.
But this just feels right to me, and is pretty much how I have envisioned this project turning out from the beginning, back last September, when I first aquired the Brazillian.
Best Regards, Les
I agree with Iggy, I don't think that it is going to need to be refinished, the barrel blue actually matches the frame better than the photos show, and it just looks like it was always in this barrel length.
I love snubbies as you probably remember, all the way from my 3 1/2" N frame .357 down to my little 2" I and J frames. I have never really cared for longer barrels, even though I have a few.
But this just feels right to me, and is pretty much how I have envisioned this project turning out from the beginning, back last September, when I first aquired the Brazillian.
Best Regards, Les
Last edited:
jebstuart
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
If the barrel shoulder has to be turned down, MUST that be done on a lathe? Or, is there any other way if you don't have a metal lathe? I'm love'in watching this process.
Last edited:
Jeb,
The barrel shoulder needs to be true, perfectly square. Turning it down on a lathe is the way it's done.
However, the N frame barrel thread size is 36 TPI, therefore each thread turns the barrel one full turn. 1" divided by 36 = .029" per thread. For each full turn of the barrel, the barrel shoulder moves .029". So let's say the new barrel tightens up 1/4 turn from the front sight being straight up at 12 o'clock.
An additional 1/4 turn means that the barrel shoulder must be trimmed (.029" divided by 4) = .007". That's not very much. So an alternative is to remove .007" from the front of the frame. That can be filed and stoned off as long as the barrel seat on frame is kept square. So in the case of removing a very small amount, a lathe is not needed.
If you then turn the barrel tight, you can check the squareness of the frame by loosening the barrel and observe the barrel seat on front face of the frame. If the barrel shoulder has not scribed a mark all the way around the barrel hole, you know the frame hole face, the barrel shoulder, or both are not square.
NOTE: you can loosen factory installed barrels on new guns and sometimes find the scribed mark does not go all around the frame face, so they're not always perfect but shoot fine.
The barrel shoulder needs to be true, perfectly square. Turning it down on a lathe is the way it's done.
However, the N frame barrel thread size is 36 TPI, therefore each thread turns the barrel one full turn. 1" divided by 36 = .029" per thread. For each full turn of the barrel, the barrel shoulder moves .029". So let's say the new barrel tightens up 1/4 turn from the front sight being straight up at 12 o'clock.
An additional 1/4 turn means that the barrel shoulder must be trimmed (.029" divided by 4) = .007". That's not very much. So an alternative is to remove .007" from the front of the frame. That can be filed and stoned off as long as the barrel seat on frame is kept square. So in the case of removing a very small amount, a lathe is not needed.
If you then turn the barrel tight, you can check the squareness of the frame by loosening the barrel and observe the barrel seat on front face of the frame. If the barrel shoulder has not scribed a mark all the way around the barrel hole, you know the frame hole face, the barrel shoulder, or both are not square.
NOTE: you can loosen factory installed barrels on new guns and sometimes find the scribed mark does not go all around the frame face, so they're not always perfect but shoot fine.
Last edited:
jebstuart
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Well the frame opening at the barrel treads is convex with little metal to remove for the first 725 thousandths for a 1/4 turn. So would stoning with a couple of grits, squarely, not be the answer? The tricky bit would be keeping it square, free hand, wouldn't it?
I also know cylinder gap plays a roll. If you over close the gap, do you then stone the forcing cone?
Are crush washers never acceptable for installing a barrel?
The frame opening is convex??
No, crush wasjers are not used. There'd be a space between the barrel and the frame.
Last edited:
jebstuart
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Just less frame material where it tapers down to meet the barrel sholder.
I'll watch and learn.
I have a BSR that I already have a snub barrel for & I'm just intensely curious.
Thanks as always for your help,
OP
Hey, guys, I'm back!! Had to do some holiday stuff today, but was able to spend a little time working on my project. I know when I took that last photo last night, it looked like I was almost done!! Well, not really.
I took Hondo's advice and removed stock from the frame in order to get the barrel to "clock" correctly. As he noted in his post, I had to remove very little., but since I was hand filing, I used a technique that I used to use when fitting parts for muzzle loaders. I "smoked" the frame with the flame from an ordinary Bic lighter. Then screwed in the barrel hand tight, and then unscrewed it, and noted where the contact area was, and used the file to remove stock in that area. Thus, I was able to keep the frame square and flat.
Here's what it looked like with the "smoke" in place:
And here's what it looked like after the barrel had been screwed in and removed:
Then I would file down the high spots, and thus keep the work flat and square.
Once the barrel had been installed, and tightened down (and Hondo was correct in the ammount it needed to be fitted...it was about 1/4 turn out). I then had to file a very slight ammount from the breech end of the barrel in order to achieve the correct barrel cylinder gap. Actually, I have left it somewhat tighter than I intend, so that I can do a final polish with a stone. But it is open enough for function testing.
Best Regards, Les
I took Hondo's advice and removed stock from the frame in order to get the barrel to "clock" correctly. As he noted in his post, I had to remove very little., but since I was hand filing, I used a technique that I used to use when fitting parts for muzzle loaders. I "smoked" the frame with the flame from an ordinary Bic lighter. Then screwed in the barrel hand tight, and then unscrewed it, and noted where the contact area was, and used the file to remove stock in that area. Thus, I was able to keep the frame square and flat.
Here's what it looked like with the "smoke" in place:
And here's what it looked like after the barrel had been screwed in and removed:
Then I would file down the high spots, and thus keep the work flat and square.
Once the barrel had been installed, and tightened down (and Hondo was correct in the ammount it needed to be fitted...it was about 1/4 turn out). I then had to file a very slight ammount from the breech end of the barrel in order to achieve the correct barrel cylinder gap. Actually, I have left it somewhat tighter than I intend, so that I can do a final polish with a stone. But it is open enough for function testing.
Best Regards, Les
Last edited:
OP
Continued.... After all this, I needed to remove some stock from the front locking lug face in order to allow the unaltered ejector rod to properly interact with the locking lug. I was able to use the existing lug, but it still protrudes too far forward, which does not affect function, but looks odd. As one of a number of final touches, I intend to shorten this for appearances sake. As I say, it works just fine.
Here is how the project looks now...similar to what you saw yesterday, but with many hours of (as Iggy says) "tweaking" invested.
I have gone into some detail, as I know that jebstuart and possibly others have shown an interest in the how and what of actually doing some of these tasks. I have been working on Smith and Wesson revolvers since the 1970s, and have some specialized tools that make some of these tasks a little simpler, but I am not a "gunsmith". I was trained as an "armorer", and have some skills that have helped me with this project, but I sure am grateful for all the support and advice from the S&W forum and SWCA folks.
I'll be back again, after I have cleaned up a few more details...for example, I will probably touch up the bare steel left after fitting with a little cold blue, and shorten that locking lug thingy, and still want to do a little final fitting of the elk stag stocks....
Oh yeah..... Most important, I'll be sure and post the results of a shooting test!!
Best Regards, Les
Here is how the project looks now...similar to what you saw yesterday, but with many hours of (as Iggy says) "tweaking" invested.
I have gone into some detail, as I know that jebstuart and possibly others have shown an interest in the how and what of actually doing some of these tasks. I have been working on Smith and Wesson revolvers since the 1970s, and have some specialized tools that make some of these tasks a little simpler, but I am not a "gunsmith". I was trained as an "armorer", and have some skills that have helped me with this project, but I sure am grateful for all the support and advice from the S&W forum and SWCA folks.
I'll be back again, after I have cleaned up a few more details...for example, I will probably touch up the bare steel left after fitting with a little cold blue, and shorten that locking lug thingy, and still want to do a little final fitting of the elk stag stocks....
Oh yeah..... Most important, I'll be sure and post the results of a shooting test!!
Best Regards, Les
Last edited:
The thing I like most about this one is that once the tweaking is done it will look like one S&W should have made. A beautiful gun!
jebstuart
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
What an outstanding tutorial Les, and heck of a good job. I remember now, reading about the old school British & American gunmakers using lamp-black and had forgotten it completely - good show! After watching your project, I think I'll forget about shortening my .455 barrel and start looking for a short one with a sight already on. Gotta figure out what will work.
Thanks again for doing this project on-line.
Thanks again for doing this project on-line.
snowman.45
Member
Great project, les.b. I've wanted to find an old 38/44 frame for a similar project for a long time. I've had a couple of 1917s and a TL over the years, but they were in too good a shape to modify. Even being in the PRK, I hope to run across an old donor before too much more time passes. You're doing some outstanding work there, pard.
Last edited:
Les,
Excellent work, bravo!
Great thought to relieve the back face of the barrel lug instead of making the ext rod a non-standard length!
Here'e another thought: shorten the back end of the front locking lug bolt so it doesn't stick out the front so far. That way the little spring won't be compressed so tightly when the cyl is closed, which is 99% of the time.
I used to use the soot method method and the blue machinist ink, now I use a black Sharpy felt tip pen.
Ole Joe Clark
Absent Comrade
Here's some more ideas. All work with Mdl 27s and the belly gun.
Beautiful! You must go to a lot of BBQ's.
